Vicpa 569 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 Hi 9 minutes ago, pwhodges said: So you feel that having Ludwig named on a track whose genre is Jazz shouldn't link him to the Jazz genre? Paul Ludwig should get the composer credit he is due. Being a Composer doesn't make automatically make him a "Jazz Artist" It is just like in the example Anothony Jackson and Simon Phillips. They performed on the track, their credits are "Performer" that Doesn't automatically Give them "Artist" credit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user24 119 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 (edited) 5 hours ago, Vicpa said: Just so we can rule out tags. Hmmm, my guess is still that Emby is combining Album Artist/Artist/Composer metadata/tags all together into the new Genre Artist section??? I think the only place that Emby really properly separates the 3 is at the top level Music Navigation Tab for the 3 distinct page views. (I could be wrong though.) A similar type of combining happens with Songs, whereby Songs Performed by an Artist are mixed with Songs Composed by the same person, but performed by someone else. I don't have the eminent Ludwig to check this (and it's probably impossible to anyway) but the modern Paul (as in McCartney) causes the same issue. Yes, it's the same person, but the three metadata fields/tags have different meanings and should be treated as such by Emby for all music navigation and playback purposes. Sure, no problem with linking Composers to Genres as a choice, where some people may want to see this, but there are many valid use-cases to have the option to separate/filter linked Album Artist/Artist/Composer Genre/Song relationships from each other. Is there a good rationale for the fixed combining that is happening? Edited April 27 by user24 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicpa 569 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 (edited) Hi @user24I am sure emby is doing your observation. 58 minutes ago, user24 said: Emby is combining Album Artist/Artist/Composer metadata/tags all together The question.. 1) Is this by design ? 2) If so, as per your suggestion Can it be made optional. BTW Not trying to pick on Ludwig. As an other example, you can add the modern John (Lennon) he shows up in just about every genre, Ask the same question is Lennon a "Jazz Artist" ? By most standards he would NOT be classified as such Edited April 27 by Vicpa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedfroop21 39 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 It may be possible that the part where it says "Genre JAZZ" is the source of your problems............... There is NO media player in the world that looks at that and doesn't tag the track, artist and composer as Jazz........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user24 119 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 (edited) @Vicpa Yeah, I think we are basically in agreement here I tend to associate Genre with the individual Artist/Song concerned because it is the artist's interpretation of the Song/Composition (irrespective of the original Composer) that creates the Genre/Style of the music. It's only really when the Genre rolls up and combines fields at a higher level that anomalies start to occur. The new music Genre pages are great - but need some filters, at least with "Artists". My personal preference would be to just show Album Artists within the current "Artists" section, but others would likely filter differently for themselves. John Lennon is a great example. I think most would regard him as mainly a Rock/Pop Artist , but his widely performed music could be classified as Rock, Pop, Blues, Jazz, Bluegrass, Metal, Hip-Hop... almost anything, you name it, depending upon the type of music you listen to. Only Emby can answer "design" or "bug". Either way, some clarity would be nice... BTW - I happened to find a few Ludwigs in my music library, not sure just yet how they got there though!!! Edited April 28 by user24 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicpa 569 Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 (edited) 14 hours ago, tedfroop21 said: It may be possible that the part where it says "Genre JAZZ" is the source of your problems............... There is NO media player in the world that looks at that and doesn't tag the track, artist and composer as Jazz........ No my problem is the Category is labeled "Genre Artist" a subcategory of Genre Type. Simple question is John Lennon or Ludwig an "Artist" because they composed the track. I am of the opinion that Artist and Composer or different things. Silly perhaps but I tag them in discrete fields. @Luke .16 is stll incorrect. for my expected result. for example. Shared source data: Emby thinks I have 1600 plus "Jazz Artists" including Ludwig and John & Paul ect Below another Server processing the same data and determines I have 600 plus less. Below in the basic list view you can see the differences -vicpa BTW: there many other examples, of similar approaches, check Roon, iTunes, Apple Music, Sonos, Roon, Foobar2000, Windows Media Player, Edited April 28 by Vicpa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicpa 569 Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 Sorry I am on a picture kick. @Luke This is incorrect as well. Duke Ellington is not a Folk Artist, Rock Artist or a Soul Artist. See the description Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 37183 Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 2 hours ago, Vicpa said: Sorry I am on a picture kick. @Luke This is incorrect as well. Duke Ellington is not a Folk Artist, Rock Artist or a Soul Artist. See the description But on your server he has those genes assigned to him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user24 119 Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 (edited) 7 hours ago, Vicpa said: This is incorrect as well. 4 hours ago, Luke said: But on your server he has those genes assigned to him. Perhaps this is turning into a discussion of cross-purposes..? From a music (metadata / tagging / navigating / listening) perspective - Album Artist / Artist / Composer are not the same entity (even if one person can be all three). But, from an Emby (programming / database / software) perspective - they have been grouped together under Genre "Artists" (or so it seems to me). I don't think Emby has explained this worthwhile new feature fully, unless I have missed a relevant forum post somewhere??? Possibly a marketing blog is needed! An equivalent movie scenario could perhaps be labelling the "Cast & Crew" section as "Actors" fully inclusive of Actors / Directors / Producers. A director may sometimes happen to be an actor in the movie concerned, but this type of all-inclusive heading would likely result in much negative feedback of the GUI. If the new Genre "Artists" section was called "Artists & Composers" this would perhaps be more technically correct, but it wouldn't solve the problem of the Genre page view being potentially diluted/polluted by unwanted people because the embedded tags would still cause the current software to pull in all of the 3 entities. I think a good way to possibly improve the music Genre experience further (at least for this issue) may be to change the first heading AND add selectable filters for the Genre page, e.g: Artists & Composers (filterable by Album Artist / Artist / Composer) Albums (filterable by Album Artist / Artist / Composer) Songs (filterable by Artist / Composer) I imagine changing the heading name would be very easy? Perhaps the filters are not so easy because Artists and Composers seem to be grouped by Emby in other areas as well (e.g. playing Songs by an Artist also adds Composer songs performed by others). Therefore, please can Emby add filters to the Genre page to give everyone a choice with what they would like to see. This would be a nice step towards making the Genre pages great! Edited April 28 by user24 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicpa 569 Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 (edited) HI @Luke 5 hours ago, Luke said: But on your server he has those genes assigned to him. User24's explanation is correct. additional info I did not assign those genres to him. He inherits them from the genre label in the track. The Track tag has Genre XXX. Currently Emby systematically (Not me - creates the relationship) Edited April 28 by Vicpa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user24 119 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 (edited) 13 hours ago, Vicpa said: additional info I did not assign those genres to him. He inherits them from the genre label in the track. Yes... I've been exploring this a bit more... (with the very useful Emby Data Explorer plug-in) ... with a 100,000+ track library. Some more separation between Album Artists / Artists / Composers could help a lot in many instances, BUT with a large music library that is manually Genre-embedded-tagged at an Album level (where all underlying tracks thereby get the same genre label) it may be almost impossible to stop 'wrong' Genre Artists appearing where they are not wanted. E.g. I have many compilation Various Artists albums that are tagged with what I thought was the 'right' Genre. I've tagged a Bluesfest Festival series of 31 albums (so far) as "BLUES" but the Festival Artists are a range of widely-accepted Blues, Rock, Country, Folk performers and likely more. Assigning (somewhat subjective) Genres to 1000s of Albums is bad enough. Doing this for individual tracks.... I think I'll live with any so-called 'errors' and just enjoy the music! This is a good case of Emby providing what many wanted (Genre Artists) but the end result (so far) is highlighting numerous (previously hidden) music library 'conflicts'. I'm sure Emby can keep making further improvements with Genres (yes please), but I don't think even AI software could completely 'fix' Genres to everyone's absolute satisfaction, irrespective of the software platform? Edited April 29 by user24 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicpa 569 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 Hi @Luke it still could be imade more flexible for different approachs, that would be an improvement to me: Somewhere Emby defines "Artist" = (Artist or AlbumArtist or Composer) - The defaults or standard grouping. including, excluding, etc. seems like a boolean switch or two. The user would then have some control over the grouping. Appealing to a broader audience. The UI is not impacted the data is the same everywhere.. only the subset composition varies Sincere apologies for the over simplification, easy to say,.. but you know the level of effort. Hopefully, some improvements can be made now while we wait for "Emby AI" Luke, any Thoughts? thanks -vicpa 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedfroop21 39 Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 On 28/04/2024 at 12:16, Luke said: But on your server he has those genes assigned to him. Yup.....One of the ways I find stray tags.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user24 119 Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 Quote Stray is a 2022 adventure game developed by BlueTwelve Studio and published by Annapurna Interactive. The story follows a stray cat who falls into a walled city populated by robots, machines, and mutant bacteria, and sets out to return to the surface with the help of a drone companion, B-12. The game is presented through a third-person perspective. The player traverses the game world by leaping across platforms and climbing up obstacles, and can interact with the environment to open new paths. Using B-12, they can store items found throughout the world and hack into technology to solve puzzles. Throughout the game, the player must evade the antagonistic Zurks and Sentinels, which attempt to kill them. Perhaps this Stray game is a bit like curious people falling into an Emby world - in a good way of course...?!?!? (the above Quote is from Wikipedia) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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