Rethink Audiobooks

[Chyron 238]

5 hours ago, unisoft said:

That look would not work for me on TV.

There isn't an ABS app yet for TV boxes. If you want it to show up on your TV at this point, you have to Cast it.

Also, to be clear, that was the whole page, which I had to scroll down and stitch two and a half screenshots together to make. The screen only shows three (3) rows at a time.

  

4 hours ago, Junglejim said:

I know it has a standard Android app but does it have a Android TV app?

If not, could I sideload the standard app on Andriod TV?

https://github.com/advplyr/audiobookshelf-app/issues/606

 

Edited May 3 by Chyron

[kuldan5853 1]

On 4/30/2024 at 10:36 AM, unisoft said:

If you think I am going to change 1000's of cover art from CD sized squares to rectangular or thumb art which is what TV uses!!!!!

I don't care about the view of the artwork - I want Audiobooks to be treated like TV Shows, with Seasons and Episodes. 

[kuldan5853 1]

13 hours ago, unisoft said:

That look would not work for me on TV. Its more like a computer UI app on a computer not "ten foot interface". I also don't like all those rails of "Recent Series", "Recently Added", "Discover", "Listen Again" BUT don't mind in the least if THOSE rails appeared under "Suggestions" menu item (like some of the other libraries). But not on main screen for a library. Just too cluttered.

You do know that Emby is used on much more than just TVs, right? Mobile Apps are arguably even more important for Audiobooks. 

[TeamB 2356]

16 hours ago, Junglejim said:

I haven't got around to trying Audiobookshelf yet but it look's really cool.

At some point I'll spin it up in docker and have a go. I know it has a standard Android app but does it have a Android TV app?

If not, could I sideload the standard app on Andriod TV?

I only just found AudioBookShelf, I have been playing with it for a few days, it looks cool and appears to work well.

They have a Windows installer now : https://www.audiobookshelf.org/docs#windows-install

It took me a while to wrangle my audiobook collection into a directory structure that works for me and is acceptable for AudioBookShelf to import, but once you get it set up it looks and feels great.

I had to re-order the metadata importers, wanted it to take my authors, series, titles, readers from the directory/file structure and had to move that metadata importer to the top. Apart form that, it was easy to set up and use.

I will be testing it on my phone (just using the web client) over the next few weeks to see how it goes.

[Junglejim 357]

Cool. Yeah I'm itching to give it a go, just got to find the time. I'm sure I will run into the same naming/directory... issues that you did.

I will test the docker build on my NAS. Seems pretty straight forward to set up.

Cheers.

Ok. So my niece is over for the night and wants to watch Barbie.. Could be time to give it a go.

Edited May 4 by Junglejim

[Chyron 238]

16 hours ago, kuldan5853 said:

I don't care about the view of the artwork - I want Audiobooks to be treated like TV Shows, with Seasons and Episodes. 

With a chapter per episode? With separate art, descriptions, and even pages for each chapter? That is unnecessary. Chapters in audiobooks don't have separately published artwork, and often don't have any more description than "Chapter 1". If you had a summary blurb on each chapter, it would be spoilery and you would have to write it yourself, unless you populated it from a Cliff's Notes type website on the book, which would be even more spoilery and is definitely not available for most novels so would be a waste.

I don't think the comparison matches up. About the only comparison that would fit is the ability for Emby to remember what chapter you last listened to, and where you are in the current chapter. But that is a barebones requirement for any proper audiobook player.

 

 

Edited May 4 by Chyron

[Junglejim 357]

On 04/05/2024 at 14:24, TeamB said:

I only just found AudioBookShelf, I have been playing with it for a few days, it looks cool and appears to work well.

They have a Windows installer now : https://www.audiobookshelf.org/docs#windows-install

It took me a while to wrangle my audiobook collection into a directory structure that works for me and is acceptable for AudioBookShelf to import, but once you get it set up it looks and feels great.

I had to re-order the metadata importers, wanted it to take my authors, series, titles, readers from the directory/file structure and had to move that metadata importer to the top. Apart form that, it was easy to set up and use.

I will be testing it on my phone (just using the web client) over the next few weeks to see how it goes.

Yep, "this is the way". What a great piece of software this is! Just peeved I have not loaded this before now.

I really like the "match" feature to pull in the meta, then there's is a "Quick Embed" option to write that meta to file (tags).. Gold!

I think there is a option to merge multi chapter mp3 books to m4b format with chapter info? Haven't tested that yet because I have no media like that.

[sydlexius 245]

7 hours ago, Junglejim said:

I think there is a option to merge multi chapter mp3 books to m4b format with chapter info? Haven't tested that yet because I have no media like that.

Trying to keep things relevant (I too use/enjoy ABS, but want to see Emby get better), I've found Bragibooks to be a quite capable tool for tagging M4Bs, and merging MP3s (though I've noticed a bug where the composer and artist tags become transposed...I use mp3tag to fix that).

[Chyron 238]

15 hours ago, sydlexius said:

(I too use/enjoy ABS, but want to see Emby get better)

I also want to see Emby get better with regard to audiobooks, but I'm struggling with the fact that they still don't understand the most basic functionality of the most basic audiobook player, given that of all the features they could add in the last 9 months, they only added one for chapter cover art.

[Chyron 238]

Okay, so... in Now Playing in Emby, if I have a single-file m4b, the only way I can know what chapter I'm on is to mouseover the seek bar at the location where I'm at in the book. And that is only on the seek bar on this particular screen.

Can I just take the time to again point out how much screen real estate is wasted here (below) by redundant cover art and descriptions? Also, the description shows for the track(s), not the album.

 

I don't know how else to point out how rough this UI is. Creating feature requests to solve each individual problem with it would be a fool's errand at this point.

Edited May 6 by Chyron

[Junglejim 357]

On 06/05/2024 at 01:10, sydlexius said:

Trying to keep things relevant (I too use/enjoy ABS, but want to see Emby get better), I've found Bragibooks to be a quite capable tool for tagging M4Bs, and merging MP3s (though I've noticed a bug where the composer and artist tags become transposed...I use mp3tag to fix that).

I think everyone with a interest in audiobooks would want emby to improve in that regard.

I see ABS as a fantastic third party tool to organize audiobooks, the same as other media (tiny media manager/calibre)..

ABS is great for matching the media (audible), from there you can edit the meta how you like , lookup chapters etc. and when your happy write that back to file tag wise.

Lets hope the emby dev's will try to support this going forward.

 

[Junglejim 357]

16 hours ago, Chyron said:

Okay, so... in Now Playing in Emby, if I have a single-file m4b, the only way I can know what chapter I'm on is to mouseover the seek bar at the location where I'm at in the book. And that is only on the seek bar on this particular screen.

Can I just take the time to again point out how much screen real estate is wasted here (below) by redundant cover art and descriptions? Also, the description shows for the track(s), not the album.

 

I don't know how else to point out how rough this UI is. Creating feature requests to solve each individual problem with it would be a fool's errand at this point.

Yeah, that's just there pure lazy coding, or lack of skill in creating anything new!

[Luke 37248]

Quote

Can I just take the time to again point out how much screen real estate is wasted here (below) by redundant cover art and descriptions? Also, the description shows for the track(s), not the album.

Does the album have a description?

[Luke 37248]

Those descriptions are normally unique for each. That's how I've seen it with others anyway.

[Junglejim 357]

On 04/05/2024 at 14:24, TeamB said:

I will be testing it on my phone (just using the web client) over the next few weeks to see how it goes.

How did you go?

I loaded the app on my Samsung tablet and it seems ok, still got to try the apple app. Haven't tried to go outside my network yet, not that I really need to..

Edited May 10 by Junglejim

[unisoft 291]

10 hours ago, Luke said:

Does the album have a description?

erm I like the description between it says about each episode that is a track. Say I have a Radio Comedy series, the description may tell me who the guests are for each episode before I actually play the track. My concern is that some of the emby apps don't show the description until you elect to select the track and then you see a description. Useless.

[Chyron 238]

10 hours ago, Luke said:

Those descriptions are normally unique for each. That's how I've seen it with others anyway.

For audiobooks? The description is usually the book synopsis. There are not normally unique published synopses for each chapter. I have hundreds of audiobooks (purchased from Audible) and, having decrypted all of them to m4b/mp3 myself, they all do this. Individual chapters don't have unique descriptions. Separate chapters or tracks might all include embedded artwork, but it's the exact same embedded artwork. Even an omnibus of multiple books still includes the omnibus cover for all chapters/tracks. If I want multiple covers, I would have to split the omnibus into multiple books.

Edited May 10 by Chyron

[Chyron 238]

5 minutes ago, unisoft said:

erm I like the description between it says about each episode that is a track. Say I have a Radio Comedy series, the description may tell me who the guests are for each episode before I actually play the track.

But again, that's like a podcast. An audiobook, or even an audio drama, generally have the same narrators or voice actors throughout. They're not the same thing.

Edited May 10 by Chyron

[unisoft 291]

23 minutes ago, Chyron said:

But again, that's like a podcast. An audiobook, or even an audio drama, generally have the same narrators or voice actors throughout. They're not the same thing.

There isn't a podcast library in Emby, and the tracks are more considered audiobooks. Some will be comedies, some will be dramas, some will be mysteries. This can involve being just read out by someone or a full cast. In the UK, the BBC produce thousands of audiobooks transmitted on Radio. The current system works well for Radio and Audible. In fact, many of those radio shows are sold as audiobooks on Audible, have a search for BBC content, there is loads, at least in the UK.

[Chyron 238]

@unisoft So how then is it displayed in Audible?

Audible doesn't have separate detail pages for each chapter of a novel. If you were to download one of those from Audible, for example, would it come as a single m4b? Does each "episode" have its own description?

All of my 400+ audiobooks are each a single narrative, not episodes to a series.

EDIT: Audible releases those radio dramatisations as omnibuses, with the description for each story all being listed together in the album's summary, not separately. https://www.audible.com/search?keywords=bbc+radio+drama

If I bought an omnibus, and currently wanted each story to be listed on my media server with separate information, I would have to split them into separate individual albums, associated as part of a series. If I bought The Chronicles of Narnia as a single set on Audible and listened to it on the Audible app, it would not show separate art for each book nor would each track have separate descriptions. https://www.audible.com/pd/The-Chronicles-of-Narnia-Complete-Audio-Collection-Audiobook/0061999881.

If I wanted Agatha Christie: Twelve Radio Mysteries to have each mystery given its own information, I would need to separate them by story. That way each story could have a separate database entry with its own information. This is one of the advantages of having a media server: I can buy omnibuses and split them.

Currently, if you purchase that from Audible, every embedded description will  all say "Twelve BBC Radio 4 full-cast dramatisations of short stories by the Queen of Crime. First broadcast in the early 2000s, the stories were adapted and brought up-to-date for a contemporary audience. The stories are 'Philomel Cottage'; 'Swan Song'; 'Magnolia Blossom'; 'Witness for the Prosecution'; 'The Gates of Baghdad'; 'The Hounds of Death'; 'In a Glass Darkly'; 'The Dressmaker's Doll'; 'The Case of the Perfect Carer'; 'The £199 Adventure'; 'The Gypsy'; and 'The Last Seance'. Duration: 6 hours approx." because that is what is on the Publisher's Summary.

To my knowledge, there would not be an online metadata source that would provide separate descriptions for each individual track.

 

Edited May 10 by Chyron

[Chyron 238]

Poking around on the BBC website https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/category/audiobooks it does look like the BBC radio episodes do have separate descriptions on their website. It's interesting as they feel like separate but combined broadcasts. As opposed to an audiobook publisher/retailer that provides audiobooks in the same fashion that a written book is published.

Being from America, the BBC's method of organization for their content feels like the outlier to me. I can see the series/episodes connection when it comes to what they are providing. I still liken it to podcasts--they're just broadcast on the radio instead of exclusively online.

Edited May 10 by Chyron

[Tremas 113]

Please do not try to roll this all into a single one size fits all solution. Emby can do much better. I would suggest (insist?) that two separate types of library interfaces are needed: Audio books and Radio Series (or audio drama, podcast, Audio show.. whatever you want to call it). That is currently how I have my libraries set up. Books have authors and Narators, a Radio Series has a cast/crew. Audio Books have series and collections, Radio Series have Seasons and episodes, often with different images (podcasts can have different images per chapter). Audio Books need bookmarks and chapter navigation, Radio Series need next up and play next episode. Navigation, metadata, and playback for both should be optimized to their expected listening behavior.

As noted elsewhere, MusicBrainz has metadata hierarchies for both different sets (I know, there are better sources for Audiobook metadata - which is part of my point).

I suggest Chyron should continue his crusade to bring a better solution for Audio Books which are clearly his passion, but there needs to be new feature requests and momentum behind building a Radio Series/Podcast library as a separate effort. 

[Chyron 238]

41 minutes ago, Tremas said:

I suggest Chyron should continue his crusade to bring a better solution for Audio Books which are clearly his passion, but there needs to be new feature requests and momentum behind building a Radio Series/Podcast library as a separate effort. 

Thanks...?

I don't mean to sound like a jerk. I just really do think Emby could do better. And I do want them to do better.

[Tremas 113]

25 minutes ago, Chyron said:

Thanks...?

I don't mean to sound like a jerk. I just really do think Emby could do better. And I do want them to do better.

No, you certainly do not sound like a jerk! I agree with what your saying and want you to keep saying it. Please carry on. You are our best advocate for getting Audio Books to where it should be. I'm just suggesting you don't expand the scope outside of books until we get some progress. Radio Shows/Podcasts needs an entirely different rethink..

[TeamB 2356]

10 hours ago, Junglejim said:

How did you go?

I loaded the app on my Samsung tablet and it seems ok, still got to try the apple app. Haven't tried to go outside my network yet, not that I really need to..

i set up abs on my server and set up port forwarding and caddy as a reverse proxy to get https remote access. i added about 200 books in mp3 mpa and m4p formats to test with.

i travel 35 to 45 min twice a day so this gives me a good chance to test. i used the web client on my google phone to listen to 2 books over the last week or so, i usually listen at x1.5 speed.

so far the experience has been very good, the web client has remembered by playback positions and speed settings between play sessions and the display of books on the phone has been easy to use. the playback controls in the web client on the phone could be a little bigger but i manage.

the playback experience has been at least as good as the stand alone phone app audio book player i was using in the past.

plus the fact i have all my books available and manageable in a central place available on multiple devices now is great.

so far its been a positive experience.