Shield and thumb image display UX not great vs. Plex/others

[mike3821 61]

12 minutes ago, blgentry said:

 

So you had a good quality fast platform that worked well.  But you got rid of it because it was "more than you needed".  But now your devices that cost a tiny fraction of what the shield cost don't perform well.  This should not surprise you.  If you want performance, buy performance.  If you want cheap buy cheap.

 

Perhaps there is some optimization to be done on the Android Emby app.  But asking for optimization make up for poor performing hardware isn't a reasonable expectation.  I own a Shield because it performs the best.  You probably should too.  Looks like they are available used for about $100.  That's a nice bargain compared to the new price I paid 3 years ago.

 

Fast, cheap, good.  Pick 2. You can't have all 3.  This applies to an enormous number of things in life. 

 

Brian.

What a reply.

What I'm asking is performance to be more on par of what the Android TV app is.

If we want to talk about a performance device, I have an Apple TV 4k gaining dust and only being used for Home Kit purposes until the app is updated to support all the missing features.

Edited October 10, 2023 by mike3821

[rbjtech 4289]

10 hours ago, mike3821 said:

What a reply.

What I'm asking is performance to be more on par of what the Android TV app is.

If we want to talk about a performance device, I have an Apple TV 4k gaining dust and only being used for Home Kit purposes until the app is updated to support all the missing features.

Have to agree - on the SAME HARDWARE - AndroidTV has been significantly faster than Android for a good 2 years+ and still has the edge.    The latest Android beta release has got it to 'acceptable/usable' standards, but it is still not as 'slick' as the AndroidTV App in terms of navigation and response from the remote.

On new hardware, you may not 'see' the issues with Android, as they are cloaked by the performance of the device - but on older hardware (Gen 2 Fire TV sticks in my personal experience) previous Android releases ran very 'laggy' - sometimes not accepting 'input' until you wait for a second or two, but AndroidTV (for FireTV) ran almost as fast as the Shield - and that's on a 2016 device so 7 years old.

[blgentry 49]

I've been experimenting with the 30 second skip functionality that this thread was originally talking about.  I have to agree with the Original Poster in almost every way.  The AndroidTV app does it weird.  It's usable, but I wonder why it was implemented this way?  It does not seem intuitive for any type of seeking other than a single forward or backward jump.

 

It would definitely be a good thing to change the jump/seek behavior to work more like the regular Android App does.  I like the AndroidTV app better than the regular Android app in almost all ways.  Except for this one.

 

Brian.

[mike3821 61]

On 10/10/2023 at 16:21, blgentry said:

 

So you had a good quality fast platform that worked well.  But you got rid of it because it was "more than you needed".  But now your devices that cost a tiny fraction of what the shield cost don't perform well.  This should not surprise you.  If you want performance, buy performance.  If you want cheap buy cheap.

 

Perhaps there is some optimization to be done on the Android Emby app.  But asking for optimization make up for poor performing hardware isn't a reasonable expectation.  I own a Shield because it performs the best.  You probably should too.  Looks like they are available used for about $100.  That's a nice bargain compared to the new price I paid 3 years ago.

 

Fast, cheap, good.  Pick 2. You can't have all 3.  This applies to an enormous number of things in life. 

 

Brian.

So I grabbed a used sheild for testing. Yes it runs much better now.

However, you will have more sets on devices such as Google TV, fire tv sticks. 
 

you would think they would update their app to be as quick as the formal Android tv app. 

[mike3821 61]

8 hours ago, mike3821 said:

So I grabbed a used Shield Tube for testing. Yes it runs much better.

However, with the sales of streaming sticks, such as the GTV, FireTV, your audience is much bigger then shield users.

You would think their focused would be speeding up the android app to be on par with the Android TV app.

Much bigger audience.

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by mike3821

[blgentry 49]

7 hours ago, mike3821 said:

You would think their focused would be speeding up the android app to be on par with the Android TV app.

Much bigger audience.

I would love to see the "regular" Android app be faster and do a few things differently.  The blurry cover art and the hard to use sorting are the two biggest things that I personally think need improvement.

 

I can't really guess at the development team's motivations and goals for their apps.  I hope that eventually they make the interface a little more to my liking, but perhaps that will never happen.  I hope for you (and others) that it gets faster on the less powerful devices.

 

Finally, I'm happy to hear that you have good performance on your new (to you) Shield.

 

Take care,

Brian.

[mike3821 61]

10 minutes ago, blgentry said:

I would love to see the "regular" Android app be faster and do a few things differently.  The blurry cover art and the hard to use sorting are the two biggest things that I personally think need improvement.

 

I can't really guess at the development team's motivations and goals for their apps.  I hope that eventually they make the interface a little more to my liking, but perhaps that will never happen.  I hope for you (and others) that it gets faster on the less powerful devices.

 

Finally, I'm happy to hear that you have good performance on your new (to you) Shield.

 

Take care,

Brian.

Hate the shield remote. Wish I could get my Tivo Stream 4k remote to stayed paired and work properly.

I dislike the shield remote so much, that I may pull it off the TV.
 

[arrbee99 1561]

Hate the new triangular remote or old skinny slidey thing ?

[mike3821 61]

1 minute ago, arrbee99 said:

Hate the new triangular remote or old skinny slidey thing ?

triangular

[mike3821 61]

Let me just add to this. With what I do with my Tivo Stream 4k and the shield is mainly Emby and Youtube only.

I can actually navigate faster on the stream 4k and channel change with the Tivo Stream 4k faster then I can with the Shield.

The shield runs the Android Emby app much better, but not that much better. I'm also seeing it suffer from slowness over time as well.

For now, I put my Tivo back in place. I much prefer the remote and the Android TV app speed for now.

Am I crazy.

Edited October 16, 2023 by mike3821

[blgentry 49]

6 hours ago, mike3821 said:

Hate the shield remote. Wish I could get my Tivo Stream 4k remote to stayed paired and work properly.

I dislike the shield remote so much, that I may pull it off the TV.
 

I use a universal remote with my Shield.  I've only used the stock remote 2 or 3 times to do weird stuff.  Note that you need some extra hardware and some extra steps to make a programmable remote work with the shield.  My setup isn't typical, but it works quite well.  

 

Best of luck,

Brian.

[mike3821 61]

2 minutes ago, blgentry said:

I use a universal remote with my Shield.  I've only used the stock remote 2 or 3 times to do weird stuff.  Note that you need some extra hardware and some extra steps to make a programmable remote work with the shield.  My setup isn't typical, but it works quite well.  

 

Best of luck,

Brian.

What remote?

[blgentry 49]

12 hours ago, mike3821 said:

What remote?

The URC MX-450 .

 

It does require effort to set up.  Also, the Shield does NOT use an IR remote, so you will need a FLIRC in order to use a remote like this with it.  The combination of the MX-450 and the FLIRC works very well for me.  I have one button macros for on, off, and selecting my various sources.  It's a very convenient system for my use case.  

These products may or may not suit your needs.

 

You can find the MX-450 on eBay typically for under $50.  I think I paid about $40 for my last one.

 

Brian.

 

[Architekt 6]

Ooh thanks for that. Currently my LG "magic" (it's not magic) remote detects the shield automatically and works with it but it's noticeably laggy in the input. Not unusably so, but just enough that I often times hold say the down button to scroll and it keeps "scrolling" even though it's at the end of the list because of the lag or buffer or whatever (I don't know how that remote works and interacts w/ the shield). 

How's the lag with that remote? Is there any noticeable?

@mike3821 could you show me a pic of your remote? I bought my shield pro about a little under a month ago and it came with the skinny remote with the circle inside of a circle which I find to be absolute trash for navigating (big ol' fingers here). I'd be willing to swap remotes (if that's even possible) with you if it looks like it's better for my hands and if you find the skinny circular remote to be better. Otherwise I think I'll grab that remote that @blgentry posted.

[mike3821 61]

42 minutes ago, blgentry said:

The URC MX-450 .

 

It does require effort to set up.  Also, the Shield does NOT use an IR remote, so you will need a FLIRC in order to use a remote like this with it.  The combination of the MX-450 and the FLIRC works very well for me.  I have one button macros for on, off, and selecting my various sources.  It's a very convenient system for my use case.  

These products may or may not suit your needs.

 

You can find the MX-450 on eBay typically for under $50.  I think I paid about $40 for my last one.

 

Brian.

 

Nice remote.

 

I don’t know why it’s so difficult to produce a remote that a small and contains all the buttons like the tivo stream 4K remote. I love the feel of the remote as it is a peanut remote.

[blgentry 49]

1 hour ago, Architekt said:

Ooh thanks for that. Currently my LG "magic" (it's not magic) remote detects the shield automatically and works with it but it's noticeably laggy in the input. Not unusably so, but just enough that I often times hold say the down button to scroll and it keeps "scrolling" even though it's at the end of the list because of the lag or buffer or whatever (I don't know how that remote works and interacts w/ the shield). 

How's the lag with that remote? Is there any noticeable?

Because you have to use the FLIRC with an IR remote on the Shield, key repeat is hit and miss.  In most places in Emby, there is NO REPEAT on holding a key down.  So I have to repeatedly press a button to go several steps down.  This might be a deal breaker for some people.

 

The "lag" is non-existent.  The Shield reacts essentially instantly to all remote key presses.  This is a big deal for me.  My previous Harmony remote (sitting in a box unused now) had a bit of lag on every single key press. Just enough for it to feel slow, but not enough to really feel like lag or echo.  It was unsatisfying.  When I got the MX-450 it was like getting a car when I had been riding a bike.

 

Again, please note that you need a FLIRC to use this remote with the Shield.

 

Best of luck,

Brian.

[blgentry 49]

57 minutes ago, mike3821 said:

I don’t know why it’s so difficult to produce a remote that a small and contains all the buttons like the tivo stream 4K remote. I love the feel of the remote as it is a peanut remote.

The Peanut is legendary.  I still have one from a rather old Direct Tivo.  The MX series of remotes emulate the Peanut somewhat in their physical design.  The peanut remote has a "waist" in the middle that guides your hand to know where to reach up or down for various buttons.  It's nearly ideally sized.  The MX-450 has a "waist" but the remote is a good bit bigger, when means that the finger reach is further for some operations.  It is not quite as intuitive to use, but it's pretty good.

 

The overall package of the MX-450 with learnable keys on every single button on every virtual device, the macros, the speed, and the programming FROM THE REMOTE (not a computer) makes it great for me.  The peanut, in all it's glory, can't quite equal it.

 

That said, if you JUST wanted to use an old unused Peanut remote to control the Shield, then you can do that pretty easily.  Get a FLIRC.  Then program the FLIRC to respond to the Peanut and send the keys to the Shield that it expects.  Plug the FLIRC into a USB port on the Shield and *boom*. Now your Peanut remote controls the Shield.

 

If you aren't familiar, the FLIRC pretends to be a USB keyboard.  It sends keyboard keys to the host you plug it into.  Your job is to program it so that when you press keys on an IR remote, the FLIRC sends the right keyboard key.  For example, the center button on the Peanut would send the <enter> key on the keyboard.  You program the FLIRC (on a computer) to do this.  Program the other 5 or 6 keys too.  Then plug it into the Shield and your peanut remote will effectively send keyboard commands to the Shield, from your remote, and get the results you want.

 

Brian.

[Architekt 6]

Out of curiosity, do you happen to know what technology the shield remote uses to communicate with the device itself? IR? Bluetooth? A combo or something else? The LG magic remote, from what I've read, seems to be IR to turn on the TV and then once that happens uses Bluetooth. So I would presume the shield pro also uses BT for communication with the remote. That said, I'm wondering if I couldn't just pair any BT universal remote with it. Or maybe it's just better to go with FLIRC and the remote you posted since it's obvious it works.

[blgentry 49]

9 hours ago, Architekt said:

Out of curiosity, do you happen to know what technology the shield remote uses to communicate with the device itself? 

I think the Shield uses Bluetooth for the remote.  I'm pretty certain that at least the voice portion (voice searching from the remote) uses bluetooth.  I would guess the control channel is via bluetooth also, but I don't know.  I'm fairly certain that IR is not involved at all.

 

I'm unaware of commercial 3rd party bluetooth remotes for home entertainment systems, but I haven't really gone looking for them.

 

Keep in mind that using the FLIRC is limited to keyboard commands.  So obviously things like voice search will not work.  There are some subtle things that do not work, such as the press and hold buttons.  I needed to use one of those to do a screenshot from my Shield recently and it does not work from my remote.  I was able to use my Bluetooth keyboard to do that one thing; then switched back to the MX-450.  I bring out the keyboard from time to time, primarily when I need to type in a search or something.

 

My solution revolves around the idea of a medium sized system that really demands a universal remote because of the various components that need to be turned on and controlled.  I am willing to live with some compromises that don't bother me at all.  Others might immediately reject my solution because those compromises don't work for them.  The voice search, for example, is one that a lot of normal consumers really like.  I don't care much about that.  

 

All of this to say that it's important to understand your needs, your use cases, and your "must haves" when evaluating a solution.  Remotes are a "thing" for me if you can't tell.  

 

Best of luck,

 

Brian.

[mike3821 61]

10 hours ago, blgentry said:

The Peanut is legendary.  I still have one from a rather old Direct Tivo.  The MX series of remotes emulate the Peanut somewhat in their physical design.  The peanut remote has a "waist" in the middle that guides your hand to know where to reach up or down for various buttons.  It's nearly ideally sized.  The MX-450 has a "waist" but the remote is a good bit bigger, when means that the finger reach is further for some operations.  It is not quite as intuitive to use, but it's pretty good.

 

The overall package of the MX-450 with learnable keys on every single button on every virtual device, the macros, the speed, and the programming FROM THE REMOTE (not a computer) makes it great for me.  The peanut, in all it's glory, can't quite equal it.

 

That said, if you JUST wanted to use an old unused Peanut remote to control the Shield, then you can do that pretty easily.  Get a FLIRC.  Then program the FLIRC to respond to the Peanut and send the keys to the Shield that it expects.  Plug the FLIRC into a USB port on the Shield and *boom*. Now your Peanut remote controls the Shield.

 

If you aren't familiar, the FLIRC pretends to be a USB keyboard.  It sends keyboard keys to the host you plug it into.  Your job is to program it so that when you press keys on an IR remote, the FLIRC sends the right keyboard key.  For example, the center button on the Peanut would send the <enter> key on the keyboard.  You program the FLIRC (on a computer) to do this.  Program the other 5 or 6 keys too.  Then plug it into the Shield and your peanut remote will effectively send keyboard commands to the Shield, from your remote, and get the results you want.

 

Brian.

Which device from FLIRC do I need?

[mike3821 61]

Anyways… at this point even the shield response time is much slower scrolling the tv guide while watching a tv channel.

Speed isn’t there in comparison to the android tv app.

[blgentry 49]

11 hours ago, mike3821 said:

Which device from FLIRC do I need?

The FLIRC USB is the product you want.  

 

https://flirc.com/more/flirc-usb

 

It's available on Amazon too.

 

I recommend playing around with a keyboard of some sort first to make sure that the keys you plan to map (keyboard keys) do the functions you want them to do.  

 

Best of luck,

Brian.

[mike3821 61]

2 hours ago, blgentry said:

The FLIRC USB is the product you want.  

 

https://flirc.com/more/flirc-usb

 

It's available on Amazon too.

 

I recommend playing around with a keyboard of some sort first to make sure that the keys you plan to map (keyboard keys) do the functions you want them to do.  

 

Best of luck,

Brian.

Is there any delays while navigating ?

[blgentry 49]

1 hour ago, mike3821 said:

Is there any delays while navigating ?

I use the AndroidTV app on a Shield.  It seems pretty quick to me.  I ONLY use a local library.  I do not use Live TV, which I think you mentioned in a prior post.

 

If there is a specific navigation action that you are interested in, I can go play with that at home tonight and report my experience.  I also have the regular Android client side loaded on the Shield.  I could compare the two for some specific thing if you'd like.  

 

Brian.

[blgentry 49]

I just realized that perhaps the "delay" you are asking about is purely about the linkage between the IR remote, the FLIRC, and the Shield.

If that's the question, I perceive essentially no lag at all.  It's just about the same as using a bluetooth connected keyboard.  Nice and quick.

 

The only real difference is that the keyboard can do a "press and hold" action on the shield, whereas the remote+FLIRC can NOT do the press and hold.  It can only "click" a key.  For normal use in Emby there is very little need to press and hold as far as I can tell.  I do not use the "press left to fast forward".  If you do that, then you will not like this solution.  If I want to FF or REW, I use the jump functionality to go 30 seconds forward at a time.  I also combine this with chapter selection for very large jump/seeks.

 

Brian.