Shield and thumb image display UX not great vs. Plex/others

[Architekt 6]

So I have thumbnails generated every 10s for all my videos. The behavior for viewing them is different than that of Netflix/Amazon/Hulu/Disney+/Max (HBO)/Plex:

If I just press left or right on the remote, it skips forward/backward 10s but doesn't show any image preview and instantly starts playing:

With the above, if you press left/right, what happens is you skip forward/backward ~10s and instantly see the thumbnail image AND playback doesn't auto resume: I just tried with Netflix and if you press say left, it moves back 10s, showing you not just the thumb of where you're at but all thumbs before and after (as much as fits on screen), while the video is paused. This makes it much easier to seek back like if you missed a line or missed a particularly important visual or scene or whatever. It also just makes navigating in smaller amounts so much easier.

With Emby, there's 2 ways I can do this, both of which are cumbersome to me:

1. Hold down left/right: While yes this will show the thumbnails, it starts to very quickly ff/rw and I have to press another button to stop it again. I easily overshoot by at least a minute or two from where I tried to initially get to. 

2. Press down (NOT UP: Up is for CHAPTER previews not 10s thumbs) so you see the UI with the pause/rw/ff/CC/settings/etc. NOW press up: the cursor will be on the progress/playback bar. Now you can press left/right one at a time to seek back/forth 10s at a time and the thumbs instantly appear and it works like the aforementioned services. This however is an unfriendly and unintuitive UX, at least for me and my friends using my server. 

 

From previous threads, I gather this is a very divided opinion. Thus, I would like to request that at least there be an option so that you can toggle between the default behavior currently and what I'd prefer which matches what the other streaming services do (esp. Netflix). Basically, just a player specific toggle/option to change how the thumbs are displayed when you single press back/forward: behave like currently, or behave like say Netflix and the others. Thanks!

[ebr 14935]

10 hours ago, Architekt said:

From previous threads, I gather this is a very divided opinion

Yes, I think most people like the fact you can quickly jump forward or back one interval without interference.  Do you really need seek thumbs for a single jump?

[Luke 37119]

Hi.  Can you try sideloading our standard android app on the same device and see how that compares?

https://emby.media/emby-for-android.html

Thanks.

 

[Architekt 6]

10 hours ago, ebr said:

Yes, I think most people like the fact you can quickly jump forward or back one interval without interference.  Do you really need seek thumbs for a single jump?

Yes actually, in the same way that others need the current functionality. I use it all the time with other media players. In fact, I used it all last night while I watched Alias: Grace (Netflix) as I had issues with hearing her thick Ulster accent with my American ears, and there were numerous scenes that would flash for a brief minute that I wanted to pause at to read to the clues. Being able to quickly and easily do that made it trivial to do so. Had I had to hold down first I'd have overshot easily by a few minutes then had to seek back. Or use the down/up/cumbersome way. Furthermore I like parity across my streaming apps.

 

@LukeI will try that later today and let you know! Thanks.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Architekt

[ebr 14935]

23 minutes ago, Architekt said:

that I wanted to pause at to read to the clues.

Hi.  The center button on your remote will immediately pause the video.  You can then move with the arrows if you wish.

[Architekt 6]

1 minute ago, ebr said:

Hi.  The center button on your remote will immediately pause the video.  You can then move with the arrows if you wish.

Thanks, ya I'm aware of that. It's just that the shield remote doesn't work great with my thumbs so it's physically a clumsy process. About to try sideloading the app, will get back to you.

[Architekt 6]

@Luke that works perfectly like I expected! Now I feel the same UX as if I'm watching Netflix! Thanks a ton!

Edited October 9, 2023 by Architekt

[mike3821 61]

2 hours ago, Architekt said:

@Luke that works perfectly like I expected! Now I feel the same UX as if I'm watching Netflix! Thanks a ton!

How does it run? Lag loading between menus or is it snappy and fast?

 

[Architekt 6]

4 hours ago, mike3821 said:

How does it run? Lag loading between menus or is it snappy and fast?

 

It's better in like every way (EDIT: the following strike-through was due to the CoverArt 4 plugin, it works fine on the native Shield app but removing it fixed all the issues) except for 1: the posters of my movies/tv shows/music albums display in what looks like both a lower resolution as well as a squished aspect ratio whereas the native Emby for Shield app displays these same things correctly: Proper aspect ratio, same high quality resolution of when I downloaded them. There's so much more you can configure: Like everything you can via the WebGUI which you can't do on the Shield (such as managing the server), there's a LOT more customization features for display and playback as well compared to the native shield version. 

While pressing left/right just once doesn't pause the video and show the thumb, like Netflix does, it does show the thumb as I expected and instead continues playing. Which I find to be fine tbh, in some ways it's easier than pausing, and if I wanted to, I could easily pause. Also works great with my LG magic remote so I don't have to use the Shield remote which doesn't work great in my hands.

I just did a few tests: I was able to play back the same videos with the exact same quality, direct play compatibility (when possible), Dolby Vision and Atmos were also supported just like the native Shield app (tested with my Blu-Ray 4k DV and Atmos rip of Dune, also tested other 4k HDR10+ videos like Interstellar etc.) so in that regards, no difference. The UI during playback feels cleaner for me (obviously this is pure opinion), and yes, navigating between menus or anything is exactly as snappy as the native Shield Emby app. 

Like I said, minus the poster image minor issue, the side loaded Android app feels so much better in every way.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Architekt

[mike3821 61]

31 minutes ago, Architekt said:

It's better in like every way (EDIT: the following strike-through was due to the CoverArt 4 plugin, it works fine on the native Shield app but removing it fixed all the issues) except for 1: the posters of my movies/tv shows/music albums display in what looks like both a lower resolution as well as a squished aspect ratio whereas the native Emby for Shield app displays these same things correctly: Proper aspect ratio, same high quality resolution of when I downloaded them. There's so much more you can configure: Like everything you can via the WebGUI which you can't do on the Shield (such as managing the server), there's a LOT more customization features for display and playback as well compared to the native shield version. 

While pressing left/right just once doesn't pause the video and show the thumb, like Netflix does, it does show the thumb as I expected and instead continues playing. Which I find to be fine tbh, in some ways it's easier than pausing, and if I wanted to, I could easily pause. Also works great with my LG magic remote so I don't have to use the Shield remote which doesn't work great in my hands.

I just did a few tests: I was able to play back the same videos with the exact same quality, direct play compatibility (when possible), Dolby Vision and Atmos were also supported just like the native Shield app (tested with my Blu-Ray 4k DV and Atmos rip of Dune, also tested other 4k HDR10+ videos like Interstellar etc.) so in that regards, no difference. The UI during playback feels cleaner for me (obviously this is pure opinion), and yes, navigating between menus or anything is exactly as snappy as the native Shield Emby app. 

Like I said, minus the poster image minor issue, the side loaded Android app feels so much better in every way.

I’m using it on the GTV and like it as well.

issue is it’s not snappy on this device.

[mike3821 61]

If possible, could you do a video of navigating around live tv, on screen functions and the guide?

Would love to see how it compares.

[Architekt 6]

7 minutes ago, mike3821 said:

If possible, could you do a video of navigating around live tv, on screen functions and the guide?

Would love to see how it compares.

I can try sometime later this week when I have some more free time of the native shield app vs the sideloaded android app. I'll show a video playing in DV and Atmos with both players with stats for nerds turned on along with navigating left/right as I described, the UI parts when you press down during play back.

I'm not going to go through every on screen function: I'll just rapidly go through the options because there's a massive amount on the side loaded app, and for the shield app I presume you already know what it looks like.

[Architekt 6]

@mike3821

OK I took 2 videos. They're a bit long and verbose but it's hard to show off everything otherwise. The first video is the NATIVE Emby app for the Shield Pro. You'll notice when I bring up the stats for nerds during the movie "Black Swan" that it's transcoding the video stream due to me accidentally changing some setting(s). Normally the native app plays my videos without any transcoding of the video. Esp. for the movie "Black Swan".

Also important to note is my set up:

• Shield Pro (not sure if the version I got a few weeks ago in 2023 is different from the 2019 Shield but I doubt it) Connected via 8k HDMI 2.1 48Gbps cable to my LG C9 (2019 model, HDMI 2.1, eARC, CEC). Yes the cable is overkill but it's what I have.
• Sonos ARC (supports eARC) connected to the eARC HDMI port on my TV, with a gen 2 sub, and 2 rear Sonos speakers for 5.1.Atmos at the time of this writing, running version 15.8 build 75145120). NOTE: As of this writing, Sonos has limited support for some DTS formats but not all so you'll see in the videos how I had to sort of work around that (particularly DTS-HD, DTS and all Dolby formats worked fine) but I had to do that for both the native and sideloaded app, just in different ways. The native app you can handle this via the settings inside the app itself, but for the sideloaded app I had to make some sound changes in the Shield Pro's settings itself which you'll see in the sideloaded video.
• Filmed these at night so expect the contrast/white balance to be off and to see some banding effects. In person, both videos look exactly the same in terms of crispness of all posters/images of any kind, and as well as the correct colors and all that match what you'd expect from the native Emby app.
• I filmed them tired out of my mind so I may ramble a bit, but there is audio commentary explaining what's happening.

DUE NOTE THAT I WILL DELETE THESE VIDEOS AT SOME RANDOM TIME IN THE FUTURE. Also I have no idea if these will be taken down even though they're super short clips and set to private.

NATIVE Emby app video walkthrough ~6m

This next video is longer, ~10m, and showcases the sideloaded Emby Android app that I marked as the solution. The reason it's longer is that there's a lot more ground to cover especially menu options.

SIDELOADED Emby app video walkthrough ~10m

Edited October 10, 2023 by Architekt

[mike3821 61]

25 minutes ago, Architekt said:

@mike3821

OK I took 2 videos. They're a bit long and verbose but it's hard to show off everything otherwise. The first video is the NATIVE Emby app for the Shield Pro. You'll notice when I bring up the stats for nerds during the movie "Black Swan" that it's transcoding the video stream due to me accidentally changing some setting(s). Normally the native app plays my videos without any transcoding of the video. Esp. for the movie "Black Swan".

Also important to note is my set up:

• Shield Pro (not sure if the version I got a few weeks ago in 2023 is different from the 2019 Shield but I doubt it) Connected via 8k HDMI 2.1 48Gbps cable to my LG C9 (2019 model, HDMI 2.1, eARC, CEC). Yes the cable is overkill but it's what I have.
• Sonos ARC (supports eARC) connected to the eARC HDMI port on my TV, with a gen 2 sub, and 2 rear Sonos speakers for 5.1.Atmos at the time of this writing, running version 15.8 build 75145120). NOTE: As of this writing, Sonos has limited support for some DTS formats but not all so you'll see in the videos how I had to sort of work around that (particularly DTS-HD, DTS and all Dolby formats worked fine) but I had to do that for both the native and sideloaded app, just in different ways. The native app you can handle this via the settings inside the app itself, but for the sideloaded app I had to make some sound changes in the Shield Pro's settings itself which you'll see in the sideloaded video.
• Filmed these at night so expect the contrast/white balance to be off and to see some banding effects. In person, both videos look exactly the same in terms of crispness of all posters/images of any kind, and as well as the correct colors and all that match what you'd expect from the native Emby app.
• I filmed them tired out of my mind so I may ramble a bit, but there is audio commentary explaining what's happening.

DUE NOTE THAT I WILL DELETE THESE VIDEOS AT SOME RANDOM TIME IN THE FUTURE. Also I have no idea if these will be taken down even though they're super short clips and set to private.

NATIVE Emby app video walkthrough ~6m

This next video is longer, ~10m, and showcases the sideloaded Emby Android app that I marked as the solution. The reason it's longer is that there's a lot more ground to cover especially menu options.

SIDELOADED Emby app video walkthrough ~10m

Appreciate you putting these together.

Its clearly much faster then the GTV.

Was hoping to see Live TV menu transitions, but you’re obviously not using that.

[Architekt 6]

Just now, mike3821 said:

Appreciate you putting these together.

Its clearly much faster then the GTV.

Was hoping to see Live TV menu transitions, but you’re obviously not using that.

Correct, I don't have any live TV set up, I just use Emby for playing movies/tv (and the music is just for friends), but hopefully it showed off enough of the differences in the players. Both between the options as well as how the two players differ in their UX when it comes to thumbnail display and pressing left/right on the remote to ff/rw 10s at a time. 

[mike3821 61]

1 minute ago, Architekt said:

Correct, I don't have any live TV set up, I just use Emby for playing movies/tv (and the music is just for friends), but hopefully it showed off enough of the differences in the players. Both between the options as well as how the two players differ in their UX when it comes to thumbnail display and pressing left/right on the remote to ff/rw 10s at a time. 

Yep. It did. 

Thank you.

[rbjtech 4289]

Thanks for the Video's - useful for some but unfortunately a fair bit of mis-information about the AndroidTV App.    Yes the Android (sideloaded) App has come a long way since it's first release 2 years or so ago, but it still has a long way to catch up with the native ATV App.   See the thread below - warning - it's a Long thread !

I guess seeing the thumbs when ffwd/rwd is a personal thing - but I much prefer the mechanics of ATV - showing a proper chapters with a time line and then detailed thumbs if you need them.    Showing chapters on the Android App is still horrid imo.

btw - Stats for Nerds in ATV is just hold the center button.  Again for release it. 

 

 

 

 

[Architekt 6]

58 minutes ago, rbjtech said:

Thanks for the Video's - useful for some but unfortunately a fair bit of mis-information about the AndroidTV App.    Yes the Android (sideloaded) App has come a long way since it's first release 2 years or so ago, but it still has a long way to catch up with the native ATV App.   See the thread below - warning - it's a Long thread !

I guess seeing the thumbs when ffwd/rwd is a personal thing - but I much prefer the mechanics of ATV - showing a proper chapters with a time line and then detailed thumbs if you need them.    Showing chapters on the Android App is still horrid imo.

btw - Stats for Nerds in ATV is just hold the center button.  Again for release it. 

Thanks for the feedback. Would you mind pointing out the misinformation? If it's too large a list, then just the major ones will do. I'd greatly appreciate knowing what's inaccurate, and I'm sure anyone else watching the videos would too so they know to take certain things with a grain of salt. Thanks a ton!

RE: sideloaded vs native, true, but it does everything the native app does that I personally want/need and the UI and UX fit more with what I'm trying to do. I don't have a modern apple tv: I only have one from like when it max supported 1080p.  Appreciate the link though!

RE: thumbs - Ya, definitely a very personal thing (I've seen plenty of threads about it too). It's binary - either you hate it or love it. For me, I like my players to match as close as possible to other streaming apps, and the Netflix behavior is my preferred. I am not holding out hope for anything like this being implemented at this point, given the reticence over the years.

However, if the sideloaded Android app can behave close enough with the thumbs and ff/rw for how I like it, I wish the same functionality could be added to the shield app with the caveat that this be an application option with the default behavior exactly as it is now: that way people that like the current functionality wouldn't be affected at all, and others who would like something closer to the sideloaded app or say Netflix or however it would theoretically be implemented have the choice to do so. I understand if this is a difficult undertaking and that the devs might not want to implement it due to that.

I'm going to try Kodi and see if that winds up being a better experience (still setting it up). The one downside so far is that, at least with the skin I'm using (Embuary), I don't see a menu item for "Playlists", which I do with either Emby app. Not sure if that's a skin thing, but it's not a big deal (least used function for me). I do have the "Kodi Companion" add-on installed in Emby.

tl;dr Thanks for the feedback, and yes, this is divisive, but I appreciate the civil discussion around it. I'm not going to bring up the ff/rw/thumbs stuff anymore as it doesn't seem to be the proper place to request it and I've already talked about it far too much. But I do greatly appreciate the feedback and the options for sideloading: didn't even know you could do that!

[mike3821 61]

I like the side loaded Android app.

However, it's just way to laggy to run on the GTV or Tivo Stream 4k sticks.

The Android TV app is snappy on both these streaming sticks.

My hope is they get the newest app on par in regards to speed. I really don't want to spend money on a shield again. I sold mine off since I felt it was way more then I needed. Initially I purchased one for gaming, but moved over to an Xbox since it's far better for gaming.

 

[pünktchen 1259]

2 hours ago, mike3821 said:

I like the side loaded Android app.

However, it's just way to laggy to run on the GTV or Tivo Stream 4k sticks.

Have you already tried version 3.3.36 of the app?

[mike3821 61]

51 minutes ago, pünktchen said:

Have you already tried version 3.3.36 of the app?

Yes, still to slow. Expecially navigating Live TV and the guide.

 

 

[pünktchen 1259]

13 minutes ago, mike3821 said:

Yes, still to slow. Expecially navigating Live TV and the guide.

Really? I also have a Chromecast with Google TV. Can't really comment on live tv because i only have about 80 channels, but everything else is on par with the Android TV app.

[Luke 37119]

22 minutes ago, mike3821 said:

Yes, still to slow. Expecially navigating Live TV and the guide.

 

 

Are you sure it's 3.3.36?

[mike3821 61]

8 minutes ago, Luke said:

Are you sure it's 3.3.36?

Navigating is sluggish compared to the Android TV app.

I've attached a video to show how it operates in comparison. (This is on a fresh reboot of my Tivo Stream 4k stick. Seems to get much worse over time)

When scrolling the tv menu, this is me holding the button down. (This becomes even worse when watching live tv and trying to scroll the guide)

It's also missing keypad number changing and the channel up/down buttons are backwards.

I can provide more examples if needed.

 

 

[blgentry 49]

5 hours ago, mike3821 said:

However, it's just way to laggy to run on the GTV or Tivo Stream 4k sticks.

The Android TV app is snappy on both these streaming sticks.

My hope is they get the newest app on par in regards to speed. I really don't want to spend money on a shield again. I sold mine off since I felt it was way more then I needed.

 

So you had a good quality fast platform that worked well.  But you got rid of it because it was "more than you needed".  But now your devices that cost a tiny fraction of what the shield cost don't perform well.  This should not surprise you.  If you want performance, buy performance.  If you want cheap buy cheap.

 

Perhaps there is some optimization to be done on the Android Emby app.  But asking for optimization make up for poor performing hardware isn't a reasonable expectation.  I own a Shield because it performs the best.  You probably should too.  Looks like they are available used for about $100.  That's a nice bargain compared to the new price I paid 3 years ago.

 

Fast, cheap, good.  Pick 2. You can't have all 3.  This applies to an enormous number of things in life. 

 

Brian.