Direct playback problem with 4K UHD Dolby Atmos full bitrate disc rips

[ShoutingMan 95]

I’m having problems with 4K sources having severe video stuttering with direct streaming. I can use the gear-option for playback correction, but then I lose Dolby Atmos and get much inferior audio. These are lossless rips from my discs. Dolby True HD and Dolby Vision are preserved. I’m on a 2016 Intel i5 Windows 10 PC running Emby Server. My playback is Emby on an Nvidia Shield. I use Dolby Atmos and HDR10 (my system doesn’t support DV).

The most recent case is with John Wick Chapter 4. It's not all 4K movies, but if the stuttering happens with a 4K MKV, it always happens with that file.

I don't think it's Dolby Vision, since it also happens with my Gattaca rip, which I don't have the DV layer ripped. And the movie Looper works normally.

I'll attach log files but past experience asking about this problem shows the log files aren't informative.

I have no idea if this is a Server problem, my PC is too old and a newer CPU is needed for streaming 4K, or Emby doesn't support streaming all 4K content, or ...? I'm hoping there are some tips and tricks on generally making 4K direct streaming of full bitrate UHD rips work.

hardware_detection-63828148361.txt embyserver-63828138241.txt ffmpeg-remux-5f74fdc3-8bf4-495a-a21c-aecf5dc3ac1e_1.txt ffmpeg-remux-9c4dc99d-1402-4e29-9bfd-ac4917dc98ea_1.txt ffmpeg-remux-033f6f37-77e2-4524-b808-4a3b1b16779e_1.txt ffmpeg-remux-462006dd-30b8-4071-bf71-6727a1c083c0_1.txt ffmpeg-remux-b3c926a7-c2f8-4bbb-b30f-d1313c532505_1.txt ffmpeg-transcode-1c0af2ef-261e-421e-bd8d-b33fa4fa17fb_1.txt ffmpeg-transcode-37e08437-2c25-42ae-9484-cb0b4565fd2d_1.txt ffmpeg-transcode-93f8f1dc-af03-4b76-8f9f-6f341493e5d3_1.txt ffmpeg-transcode-0446bca8-17ea-4786-9934-482119ca2202_1.txt ffmpeg-transcode-99854397-d5cd-4dd6-998c-681c08c1b9f0_1.txt ffmpeg-transcode-a4b08c22-93ff-4e58-8eeb-266b70ee7beb_1.txt ffmpeg-transcode-dba891d7-1fc3-4bc4-a69b-d55d3aa1fe68_1.txt ffmpeg-transcode-f8b0b2ba-7f36-4461-ab8c-311350ff0eda_1.txt ffmpeg-transcode-fce982ca-04af-43bd-9032-664fc0e38b09_1.txt hardware_detection-63828137376.txt hardware_detection-63828138264.txt

Edited August 20, 2023 by ShoutingMan

[MBSki 1026]

Which client are you using to watch the 4k movies?

[rbjtech 4329]

11 hours ago, MBSki said:

Which client are you using to watch the 4k movies?

 

11 hours ago, ShoutingMan said:

My playback is Emby on an Nvidia Shield.

So you have what is (imo) the best playback device - but playback of UHD Remux Rips are dependent on

a) The other equipment being capable of playing the raw Video and Audio stream.

b) The construction of the original RIP and how it was done.  (makemkv etc)

c) The construction of the container and codecs

d) Reliable high bandwidth capable of up to 140Mbit between the client and server - ideally wired (shield is 1Gig) or 'strong' wifi signal.

e) Decisions made on subtitles (internal/external and subtitle type - PGS being problematic on some equipment)

 

I note for example, on the few ffmpeg logs I read, it was transcoding the AUDIO from True-HD to AC3.   This suggests that you are not meeting the criteria for (a) above - ie does your TV playback True-HD ?  How is it connected to the Shield - it would need to be EARC for starters.    In summary, to sucessfully play HD Audio (be it THD or DTS-HD) the Shield normally needs to be directly connected to an AVR - removing any necessity for ARC or EARC.  Video (only) is then passed to the TV.  Option 2 on this wiki example - https://emby.media/support/articles/LG-Why-not-Atmos.html?q=true-hd

Dolby Vision has also unfortunately thrown a lot of confusion into the mix - if you are not interested in DV, then that is fine - and ripping 'just' the HDR (Base Layer), should be ok.   But ripping to a DV profile 7 (DV + HDR10) should also work just as well as the DV 'layer' will simply get ignored.   Better yet, convert to DV profile 8  (still DV + HDR10) - which is much more compatible with other hardware players.   You may regret the decision to not include it - as much as you don't use it today - it's not going away and your next device may use it..

Playback of UHD Rips can be 100% successful on emby - but the key thing is you need it to Direct Play 100% (Audio and Video).

 

Edited August 21, 2023 by rbjtech

[ShoutingMan 95]

17 hours ago, rbjtech said:

 

So you have what is (imo) the best playback device - but playback of UHD Remux Rips are dependent on

a) The other equipment being capable of playing the raw Video and Audio stream.

b) The construction of the original RIP and how it was done.  (makemkv etc)

c) The construction of the container and codecs

d) Reliable high bandwidth capable of up to 140Mbit between the client and server - ideally wired (shield is 1Gig) or 'strong' wifi signal.

e) Decisions made on subtitles (internal/external and subtitle type - PGS being problematic on some equipment)

 

I note for example, on the few ffmpeg logs I read, it was transcoding the AUDIO from True-HD to AC3.   This suggests that you are not meeting the criteria for (a) above - ie does your TV playback True-HD ?  How is it connected to the Shield - it would need to be EARC for starters.    In summary, to sucessfully play HD Audio (be it THD or DTS-HD) the Shield normally needs to be directly connected to an AVR - removing any necessity for ARC or EARC.  Video (only) is then passed to the TV.  Option 2 on this wiki example - https://emby.media/support/articles/LG-Why-not-Atmos.html?q=true-hd

Dolby Vision has also unfortunately thrown a lot of confusion into the mix - if you are not interested in DV, then that is fine - and ripping 'just' the HDR (Base Layer), should be ok.   But ripping to a DV profile 7 (DV + HDR10) should also work just as well as the DV 'layer' will simply get ignored.   Better yet, convert to DV profile 8  (still DV + HDR10) - which is much more compatible with other hardware players.   You may regret the decision to not include it - as much as you don't use it today - it's not going away and your next device may use it..

Playback of UHD Rips can be 100% successful on emby - but the key thing is you need it to Direct Play 100% (Audio and Video).

 

The transcoding was because direct stream had the stuttering. So I clicked the correct  playback option in the gear icon. That activated the transcoding, and losing the Atmos soundtrack (as I described initially). 
 

a) The other equipment being capable of playing the raw Video and Audio stream.

 The entire chain supports UHD HDR10 with Dolby TrueHD  I can play original discs from a standalone player. I can watch 4k streaming in Atmos — which I did, finishing JW4 in Movies Anywhere on AppleTV 4k. The shield goes into a Marantz 7702 mkII processor which does Atmos — have watched many TrueHD Atmos movies this way. The display is a JVC NX7, which does HDR10 but not DV  

b) The construction of the original RIP and how it was done.  (makemkv etc)

Anydvd HD rip to ISO

CloneBD to extract the main feature from the ISO. Full quality, no transcoding, original audio and subtitles kept.  Dolby Vision layer kept  

c) The construction of the container and codecs

Direct rip from the UHD disc to mkv  

d) Reliable high bandwidth capable of up to 140Mbit between the client and server - ideally wired (shield is 1Gig) or 'strong' wifi signal.

 Wired gigabit Ethernet  can and have played 4k rips. Not a bandwidth limit  through the Shield 

e) Decisions made on subtitles (internal/external and subtitle type - PGS being problematic on some equipment)

Subtitle tracks in the rip, but not active in playback. But in general subtitles don’t cause me problems. 

Edited August 22, 2023 by ShoutingMan

[ShoutingMan 95]

17 hours ago, rbjtech said:

Dolby Vision has also unfortunately thrown a lot of confusion into the mix - if you are not interested in DV, then that is fine - and ripping 'just' the HDR (Base Layer), should be ok.   But ripping to a DV profile 7 (DV + HDR10) should also work just as well as the DV 'layer' will simply get ignored.   Better yet, convert to DV profile 8  (still DV + HDR10) - which is much more compatible with other hardware players.   You may regret the decision to not include it - as much as you don't use it today - it's not going away and your next device may use it..

Playback of UHD Rips can be 100% successful on emby - but the key thing is you need it to Direct Play 100% (Audio and Video).

 

Yep. I have partial success with 4k direct play back. I’m looking for ideas on getting to 100% success. If I can’t, it’s probably time for me to shut down my Emby server and give up the HTPC hobby. 

[ShoutingMan 95]

On 8/20/2023 at 7:23 PM, MBSki said:

Which client are you using to watch the 4k movies?

Emby Nvidia Shield. 

[rbjtech 4329]

1 hour ago, ShoutingMan said:

 

b) The construction of the original RIP and how it was done.  (makemkv etc)

Anydvd HD rip to ISO

CloneBD to extract the main feature from the ISO. Full quality, no transcoding, original audio and subtitles kept.  Dolby Vision layer kept  

 

Try using Makemkv - the issue 'may' be the dual layering not being merged into 'single layer' for DV titles.

I have used CloneBD in the past myself - so know this also works fine.

I think you are almost there - maybe give an example of a title that doesn't play as HDR10 - show the mediainfo output.

 

[ShoutingMan 95]

5 hours ago, rbjtech said:

Try using Makemkv - the issue 'may' be the dual layering not being merged into 'single layer' for DV titles.

I have used CloneBD in the past myself - so know this also works fine.

I think you are almost there - maybe give an example of a title that doesn't play as HDR10 - show the mediainfo output.

 

Output from a 1080p SDR blu-ray, you mean? All 4K material will be HDR10. 
 

I can try re-ripping with MakeMKV and see if there’s a difference. 

[rbjtech 4329]

1 minute ago, ShoutingMan said:

Output from a 1080p SDR blu-ray, you mean? All 4K material will be HDR10. 
 

I can try re-ripping with MakeMKV and see if there’s a difference. 

If you don't have it already, then download MediaInfo (a very well known AV App) and use it on one of the files that does not play - post the text output. (view > text)   Remove the filename etc if you like - it doesn't matter what file it is, I just want to see the MKV general & track details.

[ShoutingMan 95]

14 hours ago, rbjtech said:

If you don't have it already, then download MediaInfo (a very well known AV App) and use it on one of the files that does not play - post the text output. (view > text)   Remove the filename etc if you like - it doesn't matter what file it is, I just want to see the MKV general & track details.

I’ll give that a go this weekend when I can spend some time on the Emby server.

[ShoutingMan 95]

On 8/22/2023 at 6:36 AM, rbjtech said:

If you don't have it already, then download MediaInfo (a very well known AV App) and use it on one of the files that does not play - post the text output. (view > text)   Remove the filename etc if you like - it doesn't matter what file it is, I just want to see the MKV general & track details.

I re-ripped the disc and exported the movie again from CloneBD, this time without the Dolby Vision layer. In both cases, I'd ripped the disc to an ISO with AnyDVD HD. I Same result: severe stuttering.

Then I ripped from the ISO using MakeMKV (I don't know if DV was kept or not). And a quick playback test and it worked normally:HDR10 and Dolby Atmos and no stuttering. Emby Dashboard (on my iPad) confirmed it was DirectPlay.

MediaInfo attached for all three rips.

 

I need to re-rip another problem file (Gattaca) with MakeMKV and see if that fixes it.

 

Any idea why CloneBD MKV does't work but MakeMKV does? (I really prefer to use CloneBD as it's much more user friendly.)

John Wick Chapter 4 (2023) - DV CloneBD.txt John Wick Chapter 4 (2023) - HDR10 CloneBD.txt John Wick Chapter 4 (2023) - MakeMKV.txt

[rbjtech 4329]

So the mediainfo outputs are telling the story ..

The DV CloneBD has two Video 'Layers' - Video #1 (BL) and Video #2.  (FEL)  

HDR10 - the CloneBD only has the HDR10 layer (only video #1) 

MakeMKV detects the 2nd layer ( and combines both the BL+EL into a single layer video track) - if you look at the logs while it's ripping, it shows an entry when it does this.

Only hardware UHD players can read these dual layer disks/files - thus the 2nd layer will generally just get ignored by most players - but I highly suspect this is what is causing your stuttering issues.   You should be able to actual player the 2nd video track in something like VLC - it will look very odd, but it will play.

So you have a few options -

a) Rip using makemkv - this will get you a DV7 profile (HDR10 (BL) and DV EL))

b) Rip using ClonebD - HDR10 only

c) Rip to Dual layer - then process again via Dovi-Script tools to make into a DV8 Profile

I would suggest trying to make any DV file into a DV8.1 profile - using dovi-script tools - as this then makes it much more compatible with hardware based players - the shield has no issues with DV7, but other players will have.

dovi-scripts/tools are available on the makemkv forums - I use them all the time.

In summary, DV is a bit of a nightmare for those ripping UHD disks - it's all 'possible' and it all works fine - but you need to have experimented with it (as you are doing) to get the container and methods all working for your equipment. 

 

[ShoutingMan 95]

3 hours ago, rbjtech said:

So the mediainfo outputs are telling the story ..

The DV CloneBD has two Video 'Layers' - Video #1 (BL) and Video #2.  (FEL)  

HDR10 - the CloneBD only has the HDR10 layer (only video #1) 

MakeMKV detects the 2nd layer ( and combines both the BL+EL into a single layer video track) - if you look at the logs while it's ripping, it shows an entry when it does this.

Only hardware UHD players can read these dual layer disks/files - thus the 2nd layer will generally just get ignored by most players - but I highly suspect this is what is causing your stuttering issues.   You should be able to actual player the 2nd video track in something like VLC - it will look very odd, but it will play.

So you have a few options -

a) Rip using makemkv - this will get you a DV7 profile (HDR10 (BL) and DV EL))

b) Rip using ClonebD - HDR10 only

c) Rip to Dual layer - then process again via Dovi-Script tools to make into a DV8 Profile

I would suggest trying to make any DV file into a DV8.1 profile - using dovi-script tools - as this then makes it much more compatible with hardware based players - the shield has no issues with DV7, but other players will have.

dovi-scripts/tools are available on the makemkv forums - I use them all the time.

In summary, DV is a bit of a nightmare for those ripping UHD disks - it's all 'possible' and it all works fine - but you need to have experimented with it (as you are doing) to get the container and methods all working for your equipment. 

 

The CloneBD HDR10-only copy also stutters. This is an intermittent problem, where some rips from CloneBD stutter in Emby. Regardless of Dolby Vision or not. 
 

I think this is an Emby problem, but I don’t know?

Edited August 26, 2023 by ShoutingMan

[rbjtech 4329]

Difficult to say without a sample - can you post a small sample to PM ?  

[ShoutingMan 95]

14 minutes ago, rbjtech said:

Difficult to say without a sample - can you post a small sample to PM ?  

Maybe…?  I think I know how. Not sure if I’ll have time this weekend. But will try to get it done, since it seems like this might be a weakness with Emby vs a CloneBD issue.

 

Thanks for your help on all this. Even just finding that CloneBD is causing problems and MakeMKV doesn’t is a big win — even if it’s inexplicable and means I have to go back to the less easy ripping tool. I was ready to abandon my HTPC completely with this problem

[ShoutingMan 95]

Summarizing the basic problem and solution:

Emby does not support 4K discs that have Dolby Vision ripped by CloneBD. You must use MakeMKV. My experience is that CloneBD rips even with the DV layer left out also don’t work: you must use MakeMKV to rip from a DV disc.

 

Emby KnowledgeBase does not discuss Dolby Vision at all and does not help users debug problems with DV content.

 

I hope the Emby team can take a look at this, add discussion of DV, and even fix whatever’s wrong with streaming or playback of DV content ripped by CloneBD.

 

Thanks

[Luke 37238]

By the way some of these ffmpeg logs provided are from an mka file.

Hi.  Can you try sideloading our standard android app on the same device and see how that compares?

https://emby.media/emby-for-android.html

Thanks.

 

[ShoutingMan 95]

On 8/27/2023 at 1:40 PM, Luke said:

By the way some of these ffmpeg logs provided are from an mka file.

Hi.  Can you try sideloading our standard android app on the same device and see how that compares?

https://emby.media/emby-for-android.html

Thanks.

 

I looked at that in the past and didn’t understand it. But I’ll try again in a few weeks when I’ve got time to experiment.

[cul8rmom1 1]

On 9/23/2023 at 10:13 AM, ShoutingMan said:

I looked at that in the past and didn’t understand it. But I’ll try again in a few weeks when I’ve got time to experiment.

I have had similar problems.  Try going into your user name and taking the check marks off of

 Allow audio transcoding, if necessary, during media playback

Allow video transcoding, if necessary, during media playback

Allow changing of container formats, if necessary, during media playback

 

I have a Denon AVR-A110 going to the latest appletv 4k.  Any time i try to play anything interesting it always wants to transcode video and/or audio.  When I take all the checkmarks off it direct plays.  Wonder if the appletv profile doesn't differentiate between the different versions.  (I know plex thought and xbox was an xbox was an xbox no matter what version you had.)

 

Here is the output with those checkmarks on and off.  You can direct play with appletv ... but emby doesnt know it can.  Still it actually allows you to tell it dont transcode ... Plex doesnt let you do that except for chromecast ... the last time I checked.

See if it makes a difference .. and if you think you are direct playing go look at your dashboard and see if it is actually transcoding audio.

TrueHD, Atmos really seem to piss a lot of things off.

 

[vdatanet 1549]

The problem is on the Apple TV side. If you want to play UHD HDR MKV, You better look for another device. 

[Luke 37238]

Hi, we are looking into improving this. Thanks.

[cul8rmom1 1]

Vdatanet, .. the appleTV plays it if you tell Emby not to transcode.  I thought the pictures were self explanatory.  Please review them or clarify your statement please.

Cheers,

[ShoutingMan 95]

I've narrowed the problem down to Emby doesn't correctly play UHD MKV produced by CloneBD. Emby plays UHD MKV produced by MakeMKV fine.

I use a Shield for playback, so no issues due to AppleTV not supporting Atmos.

[rbjtech 4329]

12 hours ago, ShoutingMan said:

I've narrowed the problem down to Emby doesn't correctly play UHD MKV produced by CloneBD. Emby plays UHD MKV produced by MakeMKV fine.

I use a Shield for playback, so no issues due to AppleTV not supporting Atmos.

As previously advised above - this has nothing to do with Emby or any software based player.  (Plex and JF will not play dual layer as DV either) - this is an industry limitation - MakeMKV (or other available tools as this is the same method used for MP4's) simply recognises the dual layers (literally 2 video tracks) and merge them into a single layer/track - so s/w based players can then play them without issues.

Once converted - Emby has zero issues playing back DV - and has done so sucessfully for years - initially with TS as that was the first container to have DV, followed soon after by MP4's and finally MKV (which wasn't as mainstream as it is today).

Edited December 10, 2023 by rbjtech

[hjason7812 25]

On 12/10/2023 at 5:43 AM, rbjtech said:

As previously advised above - this has nothing to do with Emby or any software based player.  (Plex and JF will not play dual layer as DV either) - this is an industry limitation - MakeMKV (or other available tools as this is the same method used for MP4's) simply recognises the dual layers (literally 2 video tracks) and merge them into a single layer/track - so s/w based players can then play them without issues.

Once converted - Emby has zero issues playing back DV - and has done so sucessfully for years - initially with TS as that was the first container to have DV, followed soon after by MP4's and finally MKV (which wasn't as mainstream as it is today).

I beg to differ with this statement, because emby doesn't play dolby visionnat all it for some reason transcodes it in hevc codec and dolby vision isn't hevc I rip my uhd movies via make mkv and it's supposed to rip dolby vision and dolby atmos. Dolby atmos is the true HD 7.1 sound but if you use media info program it shows the audio as 16 channel disguised as 7.1. I think that's why most players don't like dolby atmos nor dolby vision. 

It's really hurting my brain trying to figure out how to make dolby vision play on emby. I'm trying something new right now where I run the uhd rip through my high end encoder to make it mp4 but leave everything else the way it is and see if that works. 

Because mkv movie files and emby don't play nice because of the size I'm assuming because tvshows in mkv do awesome because those aren't 100gb's of data trying to play obviously..