Question as to why you use Kodi

[sross44 233]

So I've been going back and forth between the Emby app on the shield and Maven's Kodi build using the next gen Kodi plugin. But for all of you, I'm curious why you use Kodi instead of the actual Emby app? What benefits do you see? What do you like about one versus the other etc? Just curious and would love some insight/feedback? 

[xnappo 1593]

1. Variety of skins

2. In general, better direct playback of Dolby Vision, uncompressed audio

3. Ability to use it as my launcher for other apps

4. Ability to script your own tools, like my VirtualEpisodes script: https://github.com/xnappo/VirtualEpisodes

5. It is more punk rock

[sross44 233]

A lot of the same reasons I'm using it. I didn't realize though the playback of DV is better in Kodi though... so that's good to know. 

[quickmic 1344]

23 hours ago, xnappo said:

1. Variety of skins

2. In general, better direct playback of Dolby Vision, uncompressed audio

3. Ability to use it as my launcher for other apps

4. Ability to script your own tools, like my VirtualEpisodes script: https://github.com/xnappo/VirtualEpisodes

5. It is more punk rock

Additionally, I would add "performance." especially for large libraries.

[pagali 62]

I watch a lot of foreign movies/TV shows, so they have subtitles. Kodi's player offers a great deal more customization and flexibility than any of the Emby applications, Windows or other platforms. Also it FF's and RW's much more smoothly. But Emby's server/client functionality is way ahead of Kodi's. It's a quandary! So I'm stuck using both.

[muzicman0 59]

MUCH better support for EDL files (Commercial skipping).  

[quickmic 1344]

On 5/24/2023 at 3:03 PM, muzicman0 said:

MUCH better support for EDL files (Commercial skipping).  

Question, I could add EDL support (actually every file Kodi natively tries to access) for next-gen plugin in ADDON MODE, if the plugin can query the files from Emby server via API.

I assume you use native mode, but do you have knowledge how to query them via http?

[muzicman0 59]

I do use native access.  What would be the benefit of having it in the plugin?  Other than allowing for transcoding?  

I don't know much about the Kodi API, and a little about Emby (I developed a Python script that does some basic stuff based on watched content).  I probably won't be much help in the coding side, but happy to test and/or assist with whatever I can.

 

 

[quickmic 1344]

Just now, muzicman0 said:

I do use native access.  What would be the benefit of having it in the plugin?  Other than allowing for transcoding? 

Mainly, code unification and less hassle for users with native (file access) setup. Supporting native mode is additional afford for me and frankly very little tested (by myself).

Addon mode is much easier for users.

[muzicman0 59]

Well, the only reason I use Native mode is for EDL support, so if ADDON mode supported EDL, then I would not have an issue moving to it.  Assuming it will default to no transcoding on my local network.

[quickmic 1344]

3 minutes ago, muzicman0 said:

 Assuming it will default to no transcoding on my local network.

No, of course not. It stands and falls by getting access to the raw EDL file via Emby API.

@LukeAny thoughts?

Edited June 22, 2023 by quickmic

[Luke 37066]

47 minutes ago, quickmic said:

No, of course not. It stands and falls by getting access to the raw EDL file via Emby API.

@LukeAny thoughts?

That's something we'll have to add support for.

[acnp77 60]

On 6/22/2023 at 8:46 PM, quickmic said:

Supporting native mode is additional afford for me and frankly very little tested (by myself).

Addon mode is much easier for users.

I love the native mode because it allows me to make sure that the content is not transcoded. For playback in my local network with kodi on my rpi and with the library synced, there is absolutely no reason to have the overhead of emby involved for playback. Not involving http for local playback gives a lot of stability /speed / reliablilty. Playback is all Kodi/smb. Kodi is without any doubts way superior for playback than the emby apps. As far as I can see there is no way to generally prohibit emby server from transcoding when using emby apps or kodi app in addon mode.

On the other hand emby is by far the best solution for a media-server and library. Emby-Apps are also great for playing away form home or on mobile devices. At home I "only" use Emby to manage and sync the library, which it does really great.

So combining kodi in native mode and emby server gets me the best on both sides.

PLEASE do not give up on the native mode   If you need anything regarding testing/support I am happy to help out anytime.

CHEERS

 

[quickmic 1344]

16 hours ago, acnp77 said:

I love the native mode because it allows me to make sure that the content is not transcoded.

Addon mode doesn't transcode unless you configured the plugin doing so.

99% of Kodi's (playback) features are supported in addon mode, there are only a few limitations left compared with native mode. edl support is one of them.

Edited July 3, 2023 by quickmic

[acnp77 60]

14 hours ago, quickmic said:

99% of Kodi's (playback) features are supported in addon mode, there are only a few limitations left compared with native mode. edl support is one of them.

What I am trying to say is that a simple kodi/smb setup, which native mode is, is the fastest, most reliable approach for media playback. Assuming a player is capable of playing all my media in a LAN it is simply not necessary to connect to an emby-server for playback. Why use http for this? It is just a lot of unnecessary overhead. For above reasons native mode was/is the greatest feature for me - please think about the point I am trying to make

Question: As far as I know (please correct me if I am wrong) emby apps connect to the server via http and the server decides whether it will let the player stream from the direct smb path. And Emby server really likes to transcode, even if it is not necessary. Whereas the kodi client in native mode always streams with the direct smb path and does not even need to connect to the server for playback. How would this work in addon-mode?

CHEERS

 

[quickmic 1344]

8 hours ago, acnp77 said:

What I am trying to say is that a simple kodi/smb setup, which native mode is, is the fastest, most reliable approach for media playback. Assuming a player is capable of playing all my media in a LAN it is simply not necessary to connect to an emby-server for playback. Why use http for this? It is just a lot of unnecessary overhead. For above reasons native mode was/is the greatest feature for me - please think about the point I am trying to make

Performance wise, there is almost no difference between addon and native mode. The main problem for most people is smb/nfs/network access configuration on Kodi and probably on Emby server as well (network paths). But I agree, it's a tiny bit faster. In the "old" days with 4.x there was a huge performance gap especially when playback was triggered via Kodi's widgets.

Quote

How would this work in addon-mode?

Next-gen plugin doesn't let the server decide (or even ask the server) what content should be transcoded. It's configured on plugin side. The plugin has full control even in addon mode and dosen't generate overhead. Playback via addon mode is just a single http query for the stream while otherwise there at least two queries necessary.

One server query how to play and the second for playback init.

[acnp77 60]

@quickmicThanks a lot for your explaining. I guess I just have an idealistic approach here. But great to hear that the plugin seems to have come a long way. In the "old" days, I had massive performance problems etc. in addon mode, which seems to be a thing of the past

Important for me is the possibility to control / disable transcoding completely, which you say is possible. I did not realize this.

Sorry for the many qauestions but I am curious about the following:

1. You say playback in addon mode is a single http query for the stream. Do I understand correctly that I need the network paths configured on the server but they are not synced to the plugin in addon mode (as opposed to native mode), but still the plugin controls that the network path will be used for playback?

2. You say in native mode you have 2 queries. Still, if I remember correctly it was possible to initiate playback with the direct paths in native mode when the server was off.

16 hours ago, quickmic said:

The main problem for most people is smb/nfs/network access configuration on Kodi

3. All I had to do is add the network paths in emby server, I never needed to configure anything on kodi using native mode (or maybe I needed to enable smb, do not even remember

 

Anyways, really great to hear about your work, I really appreciate the plugin. Are you considering to continue without native mode and advise to switch to addon?

 

Thanks a lot, if you ever need any help with testing you can let me know anytime - CHEERS

Edited July 4, 2023 by acnp77

[quickmic 1344]

6 hours ago, acnp77 said:

1. You say playback in addon mode is a single http query for the stream. Do I understand correctly that I need the network paths configured on the server but they are not synced to the plugin in addon mode (as opposed to native mode), but still the plugin controls that the network path will be used for playback?

Yes, in addon mode you don't need to configure network paths. It uses http queries (like any other "internet" video). By this approach the plugin can play everything the Emby server is capable to play. Unfortunately, Emby server has limitations for ISO and BDMV content.

The plugin detects the content while init sync and automatically falls back to native mode for THIS sort of content even if you selected addon mode. (Not falling back "globally" to native mode).

A correct network path (smb/nfs) on Emby server config is only necessary for native mode/content. Addon mode doesn't use it.

Quote

2. You say in native mode you have 2 queries. Still, if I remember correctly it was possible to initiate playback with the direct paths in native mode when the server was off.

I said/meant most plugins (not next-gen) in addon-mode (actually they have no native mode) uses 2 queries to initiate the http video feed. One to get info how to play and second initiate the video feed.

In native mode the playback (and only the playback) is completely independent from Emby server.

Quote

Are you considering to continue without native mode and advise to switch to addon?

I always recommend using addon mode, it's uch better tested and has just some minor limitations e.g. edl files.

I would be so happy removing the native mode completely, it you reduce the testing by factor two. Anyway, as long as Emby server has limitations I'll not remove it.

[acnp77 60]

@quickmic Thanks a lot. Well, I will use native mode as long as possible   Emby server is simply not necessary for playback and will always have limitations compared to kodi/smb.

18 hours ago, quickmic said:

A correct network path (smb/nfs) on Emby server config is only necessary for native mode/content. Addon mode doesn't use it.

I find this a shame, to my understanding even emby-apps use network paths when considered possible. Why stream through emby-server if the client does no need it?

18 hours ago, quickmic said:

In native mode the playback (and only the playback) is completely independent from Emby server.

Which is one of the coolest features ever

 

If I can support you in any way, let me know. I am not a coder but have experience in testing. Just in case this is your main concern regarding native mode.

I am sure others also appreciate native mode. The great thing about it is that you can have super fast and stable playback for just about any content, without emby-server in the middle, but still make use of the actual purpose of emby-server - the library.

It is a matter of principle - use each tool for what it does best. Do not limit a great player like kodi by putting a library server in the middle

Ok, sorry for my many comments... I will let it be now and hope for the best

Thanks a lot for your efforts - CHEERS

 

 

[DarinM 6]

Just saw this.  Haven't visited forums in a while.

I have been a Kodi user since 2009 when it was still known as XBMC.   That's when I built my first NAS and my first media PC.  It ran Linux, it had a RC6 remote control and connected to my NAS using NFS.  
Since then, I've used Raspberry Pi as well as Nvidia Shield Pro and ONN 4k for clients.  I still have my NAS, it just has more storage now.  

I didn't even know about Emby until about 6-8 months ago.  Since then I've setup Emby with an Nvidia RTX3050 for hardware transcoding and I have my media collection shared to family members.  Kodi is still used in my home to watch things, but when I'm out, I can watch on my phone or a tablet.  

I had initially tried Plex, but I had problems with it wanting to move or delete media files or rename them.  I don't like programs that try to grow a brain and do things for me.  I control the media, not the software.  That's why my current setup is that my NAS is running on FreeBSD and using RAIDZ2 shared by NFS.  My Emby server runs on Linux for better Nvidia driver support and mounts the NAS read-only.

[acnp77 60]

13 hours ago, DarinM said:

My Emby server runs on Linux for better Nvidia driver support and mounts the NAS read-only.

Same here... I think it's a great way to control your media, without having to worry about the software "thinking" it must change your data for any "reason"

I also started out with XBMC on a Xbox and a NAS. What a journey... I think of Emby as a Library-Server and Kodi as a media-player that integrates very well with Emby using the Emby-plugin in naitve mode. I still believe that streaming in a local network with a capable player should not have to utilise http but rather stream directly from a file-share. The reliability, stability and speed is unmatched. Cheers

[DarinM 6]

3 hours ago, acnp77 said:

I think of Emby as a Library-Server and Kodi as a media-player that integrates very well with Emby using the Emby-plugin in naitve mode. I still believe that streaming in a local network with a capable player should not have to utilise http but rather stream directly from a file-share. The reliability, stability and speed is unmatched. Cheers

Agreed.  streaming from the file share is far more efficient and reliable.  Plus, it saves the hardware transcoding work for the times that people might be truly bandwidth limited.  The fans on my RTX3050 don't start spinning up until 70C or so.  I removed the fans and added a fan card that does a much better job of keeping things cool when transcoding is going.

[quickmic 1344]

44 minutes ago, DarinM said:

 Plus, it saves the hardware transcoding work for the times that people might be truly bandwidth limited.

I think there is a misunderstanding. Addon mode (next gen plugin) doesn't transcode anything unless you configure the plugin doing so. The only difference between native and addon mode is, how to access the files.

Edited August 5, 2023 by quickmic

[acnp77 60]

3 hours ago, quickmic said:

Addon mode (next gen plugin) doesn't transcode anything unless you configure the plugin doing so.

I understand, and I very much appreciate this. This means that I can also use addon mode without having to worry about unnecessary transcoding in my LAN.

My point is a somehow general one. If I can prefectly stream my content with a player that can handle the content in the LAN, there is no reason to use http (which I call "overhead" in this case). Even if it is mostly a matter of principle, and addon-mode does a great job. The beauty, and my favorite feature of the kodi-addon in native mode is the fact that you can make use of the emby-server, but at the same time you can still stream directly from the share. This combination is great becuase it gives me the best from both worlds.

Let's be honest, if the only topic at hand would be streaming content in a LAN, nobody would suggest using http for this. (At least I hope so)

On the other hand I also understand that the SW is evolving, features are being added, and the situation is a little bit more complicated sometines. Also I have to admit, if ET on rpi would be ready, I would probably give it a try, becuase it is "pure" Emby and looks just great on the TV.

In the many years that I have used kodi and emby I have concluded that emby is very good at it's main task, which is being a library, and that kodi is the best player. Maybe my "not wanting to use http" also comes from my experience with emby players, where I have had countless problems on many different setup's when it comes to fast and reliable content playback. Even today, where emby has become "grown up", I still have many playback issues. I am not blaming emby for this, emby is a great product, but it tries to do too many things IMHO, and the world of different operating systems and HW is very difficult to handle, especially apple devices. On the other hand in all these years I have never had any problems with SMB-streaming, even with very limited HW resources and quite high bitrate content. Up to some months ago I actually was using a rpi2 with kodi/emby-addon to stream 1080p content, which is a very good example for the importantce of efficient handling of a task. Sometimes I could not belive that the rpi2 actually can playback all this content. Today I use 2 rpi400's.

This is why I find it important to not forget what technology is the best for a specific task

But maybe I did not consider all the aspects, and it is not my intention to hold on to something from the past. I just wanted to share my view on the topic. The most important thing for me is to control transcoding, which should work fine in both addon-modes.

Thanks a lot for all your efforts - CHEERS

.

 

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by acnp77

[sross44 233]

@quickmicI sent you a DM with a question about Kodi. Thanks again for all your help with all of this for me! One of the best plugins I use for Emby!