Important : Limitation of Emby premiere

[caaptusss 16]

Hello,
I would like to open a topic that I think is important for the development team.
I understand that since a few weeks, you have applied the verification of the number of users/devices connected on the Emby server. The current limitation, which is very vague, seems particularly restrictive, and I'm starting to wonder if I won't be migrating to Jellyfin soon.
Indeed, I don't mind paying a team to develop Emby, I love the work that is done. But I hate the idea of monitoring the number of users or devices I connect to it. I have a large family, and a circle of friends who love the content I put on my Emby server. So much so that I have reached the limit imposed by the Emby Premiere subscription when I have just renewed my license for the year.
In my opinion, and for the sustainability of Emby, it would be good for developers to keep in mind that a restrictive model mechanically reduces the number of subscribers, we see it well in Spain since Netflix has limited the sharing of identifiers, it's almost 2M subscribers less in the country!
So, I hope that the development team is listening to this kind of feedback and that this message will make you change your mind about the licensing system. Charge more for the license if you want for one year, but please remove the user and device count. Anyway, a costal server will not be able to run several hundred users, there will always be a physical limitation. You just need to impose a license per server, and your limitation will always be functional to limit the abuse of use.
I've really taken the time to weigh the pros and cons of using Emby in the future, and I'll wait to hear from the developers on this before making a decision. But if this policy is not reviewed, it is very clear that you will lose a very satisfied user.

Please feel free to discuss this issue, it is important. Thank you.

[GrimReaper 3294]

6 minutes ago, caaptusss said:

I understand that since a few weeks, you have applied the verification of the number of users/devices connected on the Emby server.

Device limit has been there for a long time, nothing new there, let alone in the last few weeks. 

Standard Premiere license carries a 25 devices limit, which covers vast majority of usage-cases. If that ain't sufficient, there are Extended Premiere options with 45 and 75 devices limit. 

https://emby.media/premiere-ext.html

[caaptusss 16]

When I bought my license more than 2 years ago, there was no explicit limitation on the site. It was not detailed on the purchase template.
Moreover, this limit is not detailed on the Emby configuration interface either.

It doesn't matter if it suits the majority of users, the fact is that I have 50 users so far, each with 2 to 3 devices, that is more than 150 registered and active devices. It is clear that the 45 device license would not meet my needs either.

What I'm saying is that Emby's current business model may be suitable for most people, but it automatically excludes specific users like me, who need more flexibility. And it's not the extended licenses that will answer my problem.

So what is my solution? Should I switch to another open source solution? Is that the answer from the Emby team? You would rather lose users than find a solution for people like me?

[GrimReaper 3294]

8 minutes ago, caaptusss said:

the fact is that I have 50 users so far, each with 2 to 3 devices, that is more than 150 registered and active devices. It is clear that the 45 device license would not meet my needs either

Only devices that utilise Premiere features count against your limit, and they drop off the list after about a week of not utilising those. It'd be quite uncommon that each of those users is using all of those devices at the same time and each day to access Premiere features of your server. Not impossible, though, just improbable. Number of client apps also doesn't require Premiere for full playback (like browsers, Roku and certain SmarTV platforms), the most common of actions, or can be unlocked after which they wouldn't count against your limit for playback only. Anyway, everything said above is just to shed some light on current schema, which is dynamic and day-by-day and device-by-device changeable, Devs would need to comment about your query. 

https://support.emby.media/support/solutions/articles/44001173099-emby-premiere-feature-matrix

Edited May 1, 2023 by GrimReaper
Link

[caaptusss 16]

It appears that almost all users need to do transcoding to reduce the bitrate of videos, or change the format, because incompatible on some platforms.
With 50 users currently registered on the server, I assure you that the limit is reached.
Indeed, and as a reminder, the transcoding function is only included in Emby Première. Therefore, as soon as a user changes the quality of his or her viewing, it goes into transcoding, and is therefore counted as a premiere device.
I hope that the development team won't take these findings the wrong way, the objective here is clearly to be able to continue using Emby because I'm very satisfied with its operation.
But the satisfaction of my friends and family takes precedence over the respect of the licencing, and as it is, I don't see how I could continue to make my circle enjoy my personal video catalog.
I hope that this request will be taken into account and that an adaptation of the licensing system will be proposed.
Thank you in any case for this exchange,

[jaycedk 382]

22 minutes ago, caaptusss said:

When I bought my license more than 2 years ago, there was no explicit limitation on the site. It was not detailed on the purchase template.
Moreover, this limit is not detailed on the Emby configuration interface either.

There was a limitation 2 years ago, and it was 25 devices.

In 2019 it was raised from 15 to 25.

See this blog from 2019.

 

Edited May 1, 2023 by jaycedk

[GrimReaper 3294]

16 minutes ago, caaptusss said:

Indeed, and as a reminder, the transcoding function is only included in Emby Première. Therefore, as soon as a user changes the quality of his or her viewing, it goes into transcoding, and is therefore counted as a premiere device.

Nope, only Hardware Accelerated transcoding requires Premiere, but regardless, devices are playing only and, as said above, full playback is either free or you can unlock app on certain platforms not to count against limit, so you can leverage your number. 

Edited May 1, 2023 by GrimReaper

[caaptusss 16]

In that case, why does the server tell me that I've reached the limit?
There are currently 97 devices registered on the server (I deleted most of them yesterday, and the limit has been changed from "reached" to "almost reached". And as you can see, for 50 users, the average is well 2 to 3 devices per user.
The fact that the calculation does not appear directly in the interface is a big problem for the understanding of your licencing.
I have seen the note that indicates that it is complicated to send information via an API in terms of personal data and security, but if there is already a point to work on urgently, it is this one.
As far as licensing is concerned, I still stand by my position: it is clearly more interesting to migrate to a plex/kodi, or to a Jellyfin than to continue to contribute to your development, if you don't change this licensing mode.

[GrimReaper 3294]

27 minutes ago, caaptusss said:

In that case, why does the server tell me that I've reached the limit?
There are currently 97 devices registered on the server (I deleted most of them yesterday, and the limit has been changed from "reached" to "almost reached".

https://support.emby.media/support/solutions/articles/44001173135-is-there-a-limit-to-emby-premiere

 

[ebr 14913]

Hi.  There is no limit on users only devices but 50 users on your server is a bit out of the scope of our design as a personal media server for just your immediate family and close friends.  If you are distributing content to that many users it is almost certain that you are violating the terms of distribution of the content and that is the situation we are trying to avoid with the device limits.

We could charge money for higher limits but this will open our software up to much easier use as an illegal streaming platform.  Such use only ends up hurting us because, eventually, one of those is discovered by content owners and then our name is associated with it and we get accused of running illegal pirating sites.  The net result would eventually be that we would be put out of business and no one would have Emby.

So, we choose to remain designed as a personal media server.  You could convince one or two of these friends of yours to install their own server to serve their families and then this would alleviate the number of users and devices you are directly supporting.

Thanks.

[kikinjo 162]

13 minutes ago, ebr said:

 If you are distributing content to that many users it is almost certain that you are violating the terms of distribution of the content and that is the situation we are trying to avoid with the device limits.We could charge money for higher limits but this will open our software up to much easier use as an illegal streaming platform.  Such use only ends up hurting us because, eventually, one of those is discovered by content owners and then our name is associated with it and we get accused of running illegal pirating sites.

Imagine if ebr was in car selling businesses. You would drive your car maximum few kilometers...because maybe you would use car to rob a bank ? Or you would be using your car to smuggle weed? Any example would do it. This is non sense that you presume someone to do illegal activities and connect it to licensing model. I didn't read such crap even from Microsoft.

[caaptusss 16]

31 minutes ago, ebr said:

Hi.  There is no limit on users only devices but 50 users on your server is a bit out of the scope of our design as a personal media server for just your immediate family and close friends.  If you are distributing content to that many users it is almost certain that you are violating the terms of distribution of the content and that is the situation we are trying to avoid with the device limits.

We could charge money for higher limits but this will open our software up to much easier use as an illegal streaming platform.  Such use only ends up hurting us because, eventually, one of those is discovered by content owners and then our name is associated with it and we get accused of running illegal pirating sites.  The net result would eventually be that we would be put out of business and no one would have Emby.

So, we choose to remain designed as a personal media server.  You could convince one or two of these friends of yours to install their own server to serve their families and then this would alleviate the number of users and devices you are directly supporting.

Thanks.

The real problem is that I have a dozen nephews, parents, in-laws, cousins, and just now we are over 25 individuals.
You add my work colleagues (about 15), and the few close friends I want to help financially (yes, taking a package on netflix + disney + premium + OCS + Apple etc... is extremely expensive), and you quickly reach 50 people.
And I haven't even started talking to my sports buddies yet.
This limitation is stupid. The international legislation is clear: a tool that allows to share freely personal content, remains a tool. How you get the content is none of your business. Otherwise, as kikinjo says, you'd be worse than Tesla at blacklisting a car remotely because you think hacking it is against YOUR rules.
Your position is clearly not adequate. Your limitation is purely arbitrary and does not take into account the original spirit of sharing that has allowed the internet to develop for over 40 years.
But, in short, I understand your position. I am already installing another solution and migrating my media libraries to it. You will have earned an annual license paid for nothing, good for you, and a pity for your community which will only crumble by staying on a dogma of this type.

[Spaceboy 2493]

14 minutes ago, kikinjo said:

Imagine if ebr was in car selling businesses. You would drive your car maximum few kilometers...because maybe you would use car to rob a bank ? Or you would be using your car to smuggle weed? Any example would do it. This is non sense that you presume someone to do illegal activities and connect it to licensing model. I didn't read such crap even from Microsoft.

nonsense analogy

[kikinjo 162]

2 minutes ago, Spaceboy said:

nonsense analogy

Very short argument friend.

[caaptusss 16]

3 minutes ago, Spaceboy said:

nonsense analogy

And yet, this is clearly what it is all about. If someone explains to me that it is a business model, I can totally understand it. But to tell me that this limit only exists because the team is afraid of being made an accomplice of illegal downloading makes me laugh softly.

[ebr 14913]

5 hours ago, kikinjo said:

Imagine if ebr was in car selling businesses. You would drive your car maximum few kilometers...because maybe you would use car to rob a bank ? Or you would be using your car to smuggle weed? Any example would do it. This is non sense that you presume someone to do illegal activities and connect it to licensing model. I didn't read such crap even from Microsoft.

I'm sorry but that simply is not a good analogy and, in the US where we are legally governed, distributing content to more people than just a few within your own household is almost certainly violating the license terms of the content.

5 hours ago, caaptusss said:

And yet, this is clearly what it is all about. If someone explains to me that it is a business model, I can totally understand it. 

That is exactly what I just told you - our business model is to create a personal media server platform.  Larger user bases are outside of this business model.

5 hours ago, caaptusss said:

But to tell me that this limit only exists because the team is afraid of being made an accomplice of illegal downloading makes me laugh softly.

We have concrete and very real examples of the problem.  We are not simply fearing something.   It is something we battle almost every day.

 

[crusher11 851]

6 hours ago, caaptusss said:

And yet, this is clearly what it is all about. If someone explains to me that it is a business model, I can totally understand it. But to tell me that this limit only exists because the team is afraid of being made an accomplice of illegal downloading makes me laugh softly.

Emby got removed from the app store for months a while back because someone was caught using it to illegally distribute content. 

6 hours ago, caaptusss said:

The real problem is that I have a dozen nephews, parents, in-laws, cousins, and just now we are over 25 individuals.
You add my work colleagues (about 15), and the few close friends I want to help financially (yes, taking a package on netflix + disney + premium + OCS + Apple etc... is extremely expensive), and you quickly reach 50 people.
 

So you're engaging in exactly the sort of illegal distribution the limit is designed to prevent, and you're complaining that the limit is preventing you from continuing? 

[caaptusss 16]

21 minutes ago, crusher11 said:

Emby got removed from the app store for months a while back because someone was caught using it to illegally distribute content. 

So you're engaging in exactly the sort of illegal distribution the limit is designed to prevent, and you're complaining that the limit is preventing you from continuing? 

French law :

https://ma-source.info/fichepratique/droits-dauteurs/

"Le droit de représentation est le droit de communiquer ou faire communiquer son œuvre au public par un quelconque procédé : concert, représentation, diffusion directe ou indirecte (radio, télé). A titre d’exception, l’auteur ne peut pas s’opposer à la diffusion dans le cadre strict du cercle familial."

• Le droit de reproduction est le droit de fixer et reproduire l’oeuvre sur les supports et procédés de son choix (disque, enregistrement audio et/ou vidéo). Par ailleurs, le droit d’adaptation impliquant la reproduction partielle de l’oeuvre initiale nécessite l’autorisation préalable de l’auteur. C’est le cas d’un sample par exemple.

Edited May 2, 2023 by caaptusss

[crusher11 851]

French law is irrelevant, but nothing in either of those paragraphs seems to indicate your activity is legal in France anyway. 

[C.S. 62]

Dude, Emby is for people you care about. Your "sports buddies" don't give a s**t.

[pünktchen 1258]

On 5/1/2023 at 6:46 PM, ebr said:

We could charge money for higher limits but this will open our software up to much easier use as an illegal streaming platform.

You did with 1000 devices/month!

https://web.archive.org/web/20200812100050/https://emby.media/premiere-ext.html

I'm curious if you still get the monthly rent, because there are still many Emby driven sites on the web that provide "illegal" content.

[BlackDub 21]

200$ is a good price for lifetime and no limits devices but they only want more money. They dont care about laws

[ebr 14913]

13 minutes ago, pünktchen said:

You did with 1000 devices/month!

And we took those down quite a while ago. 

14 minutes ago, pünktchen said:

I'm curious if you still get the monthly rent, because there are still many Emby driven sites on the web that provide "illegal" content.

As you find those, please report them to us.  Many of them have found clever ways to get around the limits.

[regflix 0]

I think the OP is looking past the problem and its them! stacking up the amount of people you freely allow on to view your content then blaming the "Personal media Library's" business model is an absolute joke, then the cherry on top is the "i'll go somewhere else" 

The amount of people your supplying this content to and then all their devices is laughable to say the least, then the fact its transcoding (Probably look at your media source on that one) honestly some people take such a fantastic product and try and rinse it dry. as ebr suggested maybe deploy EMBY around your circle of people and share your media direct, problem solved.

[Mibok 118]

 Sorry if i'm being a little rude but i don't get this tantrums that comes from time to time, always threaten to switch platform if emby don't adjust to your peculiar and very specific needs. But of course always saying "There are hundreds that need what i need" is like calling my ISP and telling them to lower the price because other ISP is cheaper. If the other ISP is cheaper then switch and is all done.

 Over the years i have switched ISP like 6 times and mobile phone provider like 4 times acording to what is a better deal for me at the time. I have even considered switching from emby some times, but at this moment for my use case emby is enough. And be sure that if at some point emby features don't convice me i'll switch.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Mibok
orthography