Maximum bitrate detection

[Bagul 147]

Hello,

I don't know if this request is relevant but would it be possible for emby to detect the maximum bitrate for a video to improve the automatic quality.
I have for example videos where the average bitrate is 3-4mbps and during the video it can double or even triple in some cases.

The detection could be done in a scheduled task to avoid overloading the server or when a new item is added.

[crusher11 856]

This makes absolutely no sense. Maximum bitrate is a per-connection thing, not a per-item thing, and Emby already detects this. 

[Bagul 147]

2 minutes ago, crusher11 said:

This makes absolutely no sense. Maximum bitrate is a per-connection thing, not a per-item thing, and Emby already detects this. 

What are you talking about?
A video with a variable bitrate has a maximum bitrate. So the bitrate is per video and not per connection.

[crusher11 856]

1 minute ago, Bagul said:

What are you talking about?
A video with a variable bitrate has a maximum bitrate. So the bitrate is per video and not per connection.

But what does that maximum bitrate have to do with anything? 

[Bagul 147]

If a video has an average bitrate of 3mbps and during 1 minute the bitrate increases to 20mbps the connection needed to download that minute is not the same.

 

And if I'm not mistaken, emby uses the average bitrate to detect the connection needed to play a video

Edited March 21, 2023 by Bagul

[crusher11 856]

2 minutes ago, Bagul said:

If a video has an average bitrate of 3mbps and during 1 minute the bitrate increases to 20mbps the connection needed to download that minute is not the same.

Unless that minute is the first minute, it makes no difference. 

[Bagul 147]

2 minutes ago, crusher11 said:

Unless that minute is the first minute, it makes no difference. 

 

5 minutes ago, Bagul said:

And if I'm not mistaken, emby uses the average bitrate to detect the connection needed to play a video

Of course it makes a difference....
The loading of the video will be impacted

[rbjtech 4299]

The OP is correct - emby has no way to know the maximum bitrate of any stream unless it has scanned the entire video first - which is totally impractical to do real time.

The 'average' bitrate held in the MKV for example should be 'good enough' as the buffer should smooth any peaks.

Do you have example of where this was a  problem ?

[Bagul 147]

Yes I have an example.
On the series The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power, in my case, for example, the bitrate triples at a certain moment for quite a while and if the users have a bad connection the playback stops

[rbjtech 4299]

1 minute ago, Bagul said:

Yes I have an example.
On the series The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power, in my case, for example, the bitrate triples at a certain moment for quite a while and if the users have a bad connection the playback stops

If the users bandwidth cannot sustain the playback - then the only option is to reduce the users 'bandwidth' to a much lower setting - forcing a transcode to a lower overall/average bitrate.  Emby does not have 'adaptive' streaming - so it can't just lower the bandwidth needed for the action scenes (which are likely the high peaks).

Peak bitrate is normal - and this is what the buffers are for to smooth things out - but there really is nothing that can be done if the users connection cannot sustain the buffer.

 

[Luke 37138]

5 hours ago, Bagul said:

Yes I have an example.
On the series The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power, in my case, for example, the bitrate triples at a certain moment for quite a while and if the users have a bad connection the playback stops

 

Hi there, let's look at an example. Please attach the information requested in how to report a media playback issue. Thanks!

 

[Bagul 147]

3 hours ago, Luke said:

 

Hi there, let's look at an example. Please attach the information requested in how to report a media playback issue. Thanks!

 

There is no problem per se. I just think that this feature could improve the accuracy of the automatic quality for some media by basing it on (or approximating) the highest bitrate of a media.

But as rbjtech pointed out, maximum bitrate detection requires the entire file to be processed. It seems to me that plex does this during maintenance tasks.

[ebr 14943]

Hi.  I'm not sure what you are asking for would actually end up making any difference as, when we went to transcode it to a "lower" bitrate, this rate wouldn't actually be lower than most of the content.

[GrimReaper 3318]

6 minutes ago, Bagul said:

this feature could improve the accuracy of the automatic quality for some media by basing it on (or approximating) the highest bitrate of a media

In-app auto-quality is not determined based on media but connection. 

[Bagul 147]

1 minute ago, GrimReaper said:

In-app auto-quality is not determined based on media but connection. 

Yes I know but the transcoding is triggered if the bitrate of the video is higher than the connection, right?

[GrimReaper 3318]

2 minutes ago, Bagul said:

Yes I know but the transcoding is triggered if the bitrate of the video is higher than the connection, right?

Correct, but your previous statement:

7 minutes ago, GrimReaper said:

this feature could improve the accuracy of the automatic quality for some media by basing it on (or approximating) the highest bitrate of a media

has absolutely nothing to do with media bitrate being a factor in determining auto-quality nor it can improve it in any way. 

[Bagul 147]

5 minutes ago, GrimReaper said:

Correct, but your previous statement:

has absolutely nothing to do with media bitrate being a factor in determining auto-quality nor it can improve it in any way. 

If the connection is 9mbps and the media has a bit rate of 5mbps. There will be no transcoding right?

Now if on the same file the maximum bitrate detected is 15mbps and the connection is still 9mbps. There will be a transcoding with a constant bitrate triggered by emby because the detected bitrate for the media is higher than the bitrate, right?

 

I feel like I'm crazy

[Bagul 147]

But don't waste your time I think this feature brings more disadvantage than advantage. But in any case thank you for your answer

[crusher11 856]

8 minutes ago, Bagul said:

If the connection is 9mbps and the media has a bit rate of 5mbps. There will be no transcoding right?

Now if on the same file the maximum bitrate detected is 15mbps and the connection is still 9mbps. There will be a transcoding with a constant bitrate triggered by emby because the detected bitrate for the media is higher than the bitrate, right?

 

I feel like I'm crazy

No, because the lower-than-5mbps sections make up for the higher-than-9mbps sections. That's how averages work.

[GrimReaper 3318]

10 minutes ago, Bagul said:

If the connection is 9mbps and the media has a bit rate of 5mbps. There will be no transcoding right?

Now if on the same file the maximum bitrate detected is 15mbps and the connection is still 9mbps. There will be a transcoding with a constant bitrate triggered by emby because the detected bitrate for the media is higher than the bitrate, right?

 

I feel like I'm crazy

As stated, that is all correct and noone is disputing that but what you were referring to is how that 9 Mbps auto-quality was determined - and it has nothing to do with media bitrate nor your request can improve/influence it in any way. 

You don't need auto-quality but different transcoding logic implemented. 

[Bagul 147]

1 minute ago, GrimReaper said:

As stated, that is all correct and noone is disputing that but what you were referring to is how that 9 Mbps auto-quality was determined - and it has nothing to do with media bitrate nor your request can improve/influence it in any way. 

You don't need auto-quality but different transcoding logic implemented. 

I think I misspoke. I was talking about determining if the playback needed transcoding or not, not about determining the bitrate of the connection.

 

5 minutes ago, crusher11 said:

No, because the lower-than-5mbps sections make up for the higher-than-9mbps sections. That's how averages work.

But .... Seriously... Thank you I think I learned what the average bitrate is thanks to you.

[Bagul 147]

But this would mean more transcoding for weaker connections, while as rbjtech says in 99% of the cases the buffer smoothes the thing and the important bitrate variation should not be felt.

[GrimReaper 3318]

3 minutes ago, Bagul said:

I think I misspoke. I was talking about determining if the playback needed transcoding or not, not about determining the bitrate of the connection

I think a number of us misunderstood what you meant by "automatic quality" (as it very likely means exactly the same thing to all of us) - and responeded based on that. 

[Bagul 147]

Just now, GrimReaper said:

I think a number of us misunderstood what you meant by "automatic quality" (as it very likely means exactly the same thing to all of us) - and responeded based on that. 

Yes, I just realized it now. I'm sorry.

[ebr 14943]

27 minutes ago, Bagul said:

Now if on the same file the maximum bitrate detected is 15mbps and the connection is still 9mbps. There will be a transcoding with a constant bitrate triggered by emby because the detected bitrate for the media is higher than the bitrate, right?

No - I mean, it would transcode properly because most of the media is below that maximum.  This is what I was referring to here:

44 minutes ago, ebr said:

Hi.  I'm not sure what you are asking for would actually end up making any difference as, when we went to transcode it to a "lower" bitrate, this rate wouldn't actually be lower than most of the content.