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Add a dolby vision layer to titles without dolby vision


CAPRICORNX10X
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CAPRICORNX10X

Movies that have a dolby vision layer have an additional 1920x1080 file. Which is basically the add-on that enables dolby vision.

My hallucinatory question ... is it technically possible to "get smart"?

And take the same layer of dolby vision and add it to the title of a movie that does not have the dolby vision layer

And make adjustments of course like cutting time and adjusting to the relevant film

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FrostByte

There are two things that comprise DV profile 7 on a UHD.  Both the 1080p enhanced layer and the RPU are combined with a HDR10 base layer (BL+EL+RPU). 

The 1080p EL is the extra information when combined with the 2160p 10-bit base layer to make a 12-bit picture.  So, no.  you can't take the 1080p EL from one movie and add it to the BL of another movie.  Other than something like a UHD or OPPO player nothing reads the EL anyway, so forget about it.  Not even a Shield, Ziddoo, Dune HD, etc can read the EL.  They all ignore it.  The only reason Makemkv keeps and hides the EL in DV 7 is future proofing or reversing the process if you wish.

What you are thinking of is the RPU which is the dynamic metadata that triggers DV on your TV.  The RPU is what causes the changes of lighting, etc in different scenes.  Not sure why you would want to take the metadata from one movie and add it to another, but I suppose you could.  It would look very bad though.

The only time I've seen anyone take the RPU from one file and add it to another is with a movie which has DV when streamed online, but when released on UHD there was no DV.  This creates a DV profile 8 movie (HDR10 BL+RPU).  When doing so you have to be careful to match the first frame up in both files though. 

Edited by FrostByte
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CAPRICORNX10X

got it . Thank you very much for the detailed reference and explanation

 

 

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  • 2 months later...
mrmorrison
On 27/6/2022 at 12:51, FrostByte said:

There are two things that comprise DV profile 7 on a UHD.  Both the 1080p enhanced layer and the RPU are combined with a HDR10 base layer (BL+EL+RPU). 

The 1080p EL is the extra information when combined with the 2160p 10-bit base layer to make a 12-bit picture.  So, no.  you can't take the 1080p EL from one movie and add it to the BL of another movie.  Other than something like a UHD or OPPO player nothing reads the EL anyway, so forget about it.  Not even a Shield, Ziddoo, Dune HD, etc can read the EL.  They all ignore it.  The only reason Makemkv keeps and hides the EL in DV 7 is future proofing or reversing the process if you wish.

What you are thinking of is the RPU which is the dynamic metadata that triggers DV on your TV.  The RPU is what causes the changes of lighting, etc in different scenes.  Not sure why you would want to take the metadata from one movie and add it to another, but I suppose you could.  It would look very bad though.

The only time I've seen anyone take the RPU from one file and add it to another is with a movie which has DV when streamed online, but when released on UHD there was no DV.  This creates a DV profile 8 movie (HDR10 BL+RPU).  When doing so you have to be careful to match the first frame up in both files though. 

Hi! Sorry for my English.
I have to contradict your statement. Chromecast With Google TV correctly plays DV Profile 7 FEL without discarding EL. This is thanks to the double decoder present. I can assure you as I have been using it for a few months. It does not support "Dual Layer Dual Track" but only "Dual Layer Single Track" but it is an easily solved problem with MakeMKV.

 

Here you can find more in-depth info:  Dolby Vision Test On CwGtv

Here you can find more information on Dolby Vision support of the most popular devices: Dovi support on Devices

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CAPRICORNX10X
16 minutes ago, mrmorrison said:

 

 

Here you can find more in-depth info:  Dolby Vision Test On CwGtv

 

You made me more confused now. So mp4 is better than mkv to enjoy dolby vision?

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mrmorrison
7 minutes ago, CAPRICORNX10X said:

You made me more confused now. So mp4 is better than mkv to enjoy dolby vision?

I don't want to confuse you. I just said that Chromecast can process "EL" without too many problems.
I can tell you that I only use mkv files and I have no problems with viewing in dolby vision but I use Chromecast wGTV. The question you asked at the beginning I do not understand well so I do not understand what your need is

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CAPRICORNX10X

I will ask now in the simplest way. To watch and enjoy in the best possible way to watch in Dolby Vision format. With nvidia shield pro tv and a tv that supports dolby vision. With uhd bluray content, i  should mux it to mkv or mp4?

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mrmorrison

The speech is a little broader. You can safely rely on mkv but you have to take into consideration that your device does not have full Dolby Vision support. In fact Shield does not support the 7 FEL profile (discard the enhanced layer). I, if I were you, I choose mkv but exclusively for a matter of habit because the support for the dolby vision that your device offers does not change. 

edit:

however, if you look at the second link I put in the previous post and go to the part that refers to your Shield device, you will notice that the Mkv container seems to offer more stability

 

Edited by mrmorrison
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CAPRICORNX10X
13 minutes ago, mrmorrison said:

The speech is a little broader. You can safely rely on mkv but you have to take into consideration that your device does not have full Dolby Vision support. In fact Shield does not support the 7 FEL profile (discard the enhanced layer)

 

lol So now the shield is the problem

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FrostByte
2 hours ago, mrmorrison said:

Hi! Sorry for my English.
I have to contradict your statement. Chromecast With Google TV correctly plays DV Profile 7 FEL without discarding EL. This is thanks to the double decoder present. I can assure you as I have been using it for a few months. It does not support "Dual Layer Dual Track" but only "Dual Layer Single Track" but it is an easily solved problem with MakeMKV.

 

Here you can find more in-depth info:  Dolby Vision Test On CwGtv

Here you can find more information on Dolby Vision support of the most popular devices: Dovi support on Devices

Great, good to know there's a new device that actually uses the EL and within mkv too.  Thanks for the information. 

I noticed it doesn't support TrueHD or DTS:X though :(

I'm really hoping the next generation devices like Shield, Zidoo, etc have the dual HEVC decoders also.

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mrmorrison
14 minutes ago, FrostByte said:

Great, good to know there's a new device that actually uses the EL and within mkv too.  Thanks for the information. 

I noticed it doesn't support TrueHD or DTS:X though :(

I'm really hoping the next generation devices like Shield, Zidoo, etc have the dual HEVC decoders also.

Oh yes, unfortunately it does not support all audio formats. But still it is a huge step forward that a streaming device (therefore not a bluray player) can process all Dolby Vision profiles! Especially at that price! Now it would be handy for the MediaInfo plugin to add "MEL / FEL" in DV7 videos, as my tv can play everything up to MEL. When I find films in FEL I switch to Chromecast.

 

edit

in my opinion the next versions of the devices you have listed will have the right hardware. Dolby Vision is now becoming a common choice.

Edited by mrmorrison
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FrostByte
Just now, mrmorrison said:

Oh yes, unfortunately it does not support all audio formats. But still it is a huge step forward that a streaming device (therefore not a bluray player) can process all Dolby Vision profiles! Especially at that price! Now it would be handy for the MediaInfo plugin to add "MEL / FEL" in DV7 videos, as my tv can play everything up to MEL. When I find films in FEL I switch to Chromecast.

Ya, it's a bit of a trade off with the audio, but if you have a good DD+ 7.1 track it isn't too bad.

When I find a device that has dual HEVC decoders, and then supports mkv and all the other audio, subtitle etc formats I'll jump on it. 

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CAPRICORNX10X
10 minutes ago, FrostByte said:

 

When I find a device that has dual HEVC decoders, and then supports mkv and all the other audio, subtitle etc formats I'll jump on it. 

What about zidoo uhd3000?

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FrostByte
Just now, CAPRICORNX10X said:

What about zidoo uhd3000?

It's a nice device and supports more formats than the Shield, but I don't think it has the dual HEVC decoders for FEL either.   I've been hanging around their forum looking for news of something new coming out that does.

I still haven't found a device other than the Oppo or Sony x700/x800 that supports everything and then you're converting your mkv back to UHD format.

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FrostByte
28 minutes ago, mrmorrison said:

Now it would be handy for the MediaInfo plugin to add "MEL / FEL" in DV7 videos, as my tv can play everything up to MEL. When I find films in FEL I switch to Chromecast.

 

edit

in my opinion the next versions of the devices you have listed will have the right hardware. Dolby Vision is now becoming a common choice.

Bring it up in the plugin thread.  I mentioned it before that it would be nice, but I wasn't aware of any devices that supported FEL inside mkv at the time, so the idea was put off.

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mrmorrison
7 minutes ago, FrostByte said:

Bring it up in the plugin thread.  I mentioned it before that it would be nice, but I wasn't aware of any devices that supported FEL inside mkv at the time, so the idea was put off.

I will do it. I told you because I went to read that some time ago you asked for a similar change.

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3 hours ago, FrostByte said:

When I find a device that has dual HEVC decoders, and then supports mkv and all the other audio, subtitle etc formats I'll jump on it. 

There are whispers that the new Fire Cube soon to be announced may give the Shield a run for its money.  We'll see...

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CAPRICORNX10X
1 hour ago, ebr said:

There are whispers that the new Fire Cube soon to be announced may give the Shield a run for its money.  We'll see...

Nice

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FrostByte
2 hours ago, ebr said:

There are whispers that the new Fire Cube soon to be announced may give the Shield a run for its money.  We'll see...

I found something on Reddit about specs for a new Shield also, but nothing official yet

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1 hour ago, FrostByte said:

I found something on Reddit about specs for a new Shield also, but nothing official yet

The thing about the Fire though is that it will undoubtedly be priced well below the Shield.  So, if they do get more format support in there, it would be a fierce competitor.

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CAPRICORNX10X
2 hours ago, FrostByte said:

I found something on Reddit about specs for a new Shield also, but nothing official yet

Can refer to the link

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FrostByte
10 minutes ago, CAPRICORNX10X said:

Can refer to the link

I'll look for it, been several months

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Either way - the EL layer for me is irrelevant as I 'only' have a 10bit LG C8 OLED Panel.

I also suspect 99.9% of people would not be able to tell the difference between a 10bit or 12bit image - myself included 🤣

The DV image I see now on my TV is still 'stunning' to me (now some 4 years old) - so I'm not sure what new hardware is gonna bring to image quality - maybe AV1 h/w decoding, that's about it.  

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mrmorrison
2 hours ago, rbjtech said:

Either way - the EL layer for me is irrelevant as I 'only' have a 10bit LG C8 OLED Panel.

I also suspect 99.9% of people would not be able to tell the difference between a 10bit or 12bit image - myself included 🤣

The DV image I see now on my TV is still 'stunning' to me (now some 4 years old) - so I'm not sure what new hardware is gonna bring to image quality - maybe AV1 h/w decoding, that's about it.  

In part it is true that it will be very difficult to distinguish 10bit from 12bit but this does not mean that EL is useless at the moment, because many dobly vision FELs have the 10-bit level of enhancement

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mrmorrison

I had found a web page in which it was explained that not all FELs have 12 bits, but I can't find it anymore so I could be wrong. 😅

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