CAPRICORNX10X 68 Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 Hi everyone, I have to understand something, I have a movie whose audio format is AC3 core + TRUE HD + ATMOS Peak speed: 7050kbps (core 640kbps) Sample Rate: 48Khz Channels: 7.1 For example, when I play the movie via POWERDVD 22 in an iso (full bluray) or mt2s file, the audio selection shows me only one choice of dolby true-hd 7.1. Alternatively when I convert the same file to an mkv file and I also play it through powerdvd 22, I suddenly see that I have 2 audio choices: 1.dolby true-hd 7.1 2.dolby ac3 5.1 Same thing in emby server I have 2 audio choices from mt2s file that powerdvd 22 shows one dolby true-hd 7.1 audio selection And emby server shows me 2 audio choices: 1.dolby true-hd 7.1 2.dolby ac3 5.1 Can anyone explain to me what's going on here? When I convert to an mkv file do I lose some audio quality that I choose dolby true hd 7.1, because ac3 core is not in the same audio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostByte 5053 Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 (edited) This is how I understand it. TrueHD as found on UHD will have an AC3 extension which is seen as one file which UHD players can utilize either part depending on the audio equipment used. This is a Blu-ray spec to support different legacy audio equipment. However, some dolby decoders used on other devices have issues with the TrueHD extension because it sees the two parts and doesn't know what to do with it so tools like Makemkv will automatically separate the two and place them in separate tracks inside the container. DTS-HD is a little different and has an actual DTS core. Even most older DTS decoders don't have any issue and can automatically choose the correct format as legacy decoders wont' even see the MA portion so Makemkv doesn't automatically remove the core (though it can still extract the core and create a separate track if needed for things like when running DTS through a SPDIF cable.) You don't lose any quality with TrueHD and AC3 being separate tracks vs two attached tracks. Even when played from UHD a player only uses either the AC3 extension or it uses the TrueHD part if your audio equipment supports it. It never plays both at the same time so it's not a cumulative thing like DTS-HD. I'm sure there are much smarter people than me though Edited June 24, 2022 by FrostByte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbjtech 4291 Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 (edited) In short - the Blu-Ray standard needs to include an AC3 'track' to be playable incase you do not have the capability to playback Tru-HD. While blu-ray players handle this internally - when ripped, the best way to do this is to create both 'tracks - thus you get a True-HD AND and AC3. You do not lose any quality - however, if you can only play AC3 - then you should select to use the original AC3 - as converting from True-HD to AC3 (via Emby) will not be as good. Lastly - AC3 will not carry Atmos information - only Tru-HD does (along with EAC3, but it is unlikely you will have that on a Blu-Ray disk). Edited June 24, 2022 by rbjtech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAPRICORNX10X 68 Posted June 25, 2022 Author Share Posted June 25, 2022 Okay, so if I understand correctly. There is no quality damage once ac3 core will be separate from true-hd. Another thing from the post I read, that emby does not support true-hd? I also have an emby theater ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbjtech 4291 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 (edited) 14 hours ago, rbjtech said: In short - the Blu-Ray standard needs to include an AC3 'track' to be playable incase you do not have the capability to playback Tru-HD. I did not say Emby could not play Tru-HD - I said IF your hardware/client does not play Tru-HD. If you are playing via Emby Theater - then chances are you can decode Tru-HD. And yes, there is no quality loss/damage to splitting the AC3 from the True-HD - they work independently, there are no inter-dependencies between the two streams. It's similar to DTS - it has a 'Core' and a HD section - which you can also split out into a Core only version. Finally, not all Tru-HD tracks have the AC3 track - it's only there for Blu-Ray standard backwards compatibility. Edited June 25, 2022 by rbjtech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAPRICORNX10X 68 Posted June 25, 2022 Author Share Posted June 25, 2022 Thank you very much, You really made me order in a logic I did not have until that moment. There are 1 more things I would like to know, I have already opened a topic for this. But that's a different question When i use makemkv rip full bluray uhd title. Is the quality compromised? Because I saw there are 2 video layers one of which is dolby vision And when I rip... the layer of dolby vision is gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbjtech 4291 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 (edited) 58 minutes ago, CAPRICORNX10X said: There are 1 more things I would like to know, I have already opened a topic for this. But that's a different question When i use makemkv rip full bluray uhd title. Is the quality compromised? Because I saw there are 2 video layers one of which is dolby vision And when I rip... the layer of dolby vision is gone Probably best to look at the makemkv forums for a detailed response - but with the latest makemkv - it now incorporates the DV extra layers into a Dolby Vision profile 7 MKV - meaning it has HDR and DV available. Check with mediainfo - if the stream mentions dv - then it has been ripped correctly. If you can't play it (and it only plays HDR) then that is another matter entirely - usually because your player is incapable of playing Profile 7 DV titles. edit - thanks @FrostByte, I got my DV profiles mixed up ... Edited June 25, 2022 by rbjtech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAPRICORNX10X 68 Posted June 25, 2022 Author Share Posted June 25, 2022 Here is a screenshot from mediainfo I see dolby vision and hdr10. So everything is fine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostByte 5053 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 I think he meant Makemkv creates a DV7 file. DV5 which is used with online streaming services doesn't have a HDR10 BL and will look green or purple on a non-DV TV. From your pic you don't see the 2160p and 1080p HEVC tracks because Makemkv hides them both within the first PID so that it can be played by most devices. Otherwise, you would need two HEVC decoders. This whole process can be reversed though, and everything put back in folder format (minus menus, etc) because in the end mkv is just a container. Yes, your file is good though 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAPRICORNX10X 68 Posted June 25, 2022 Author Share Posted June 25, 2022 So to sum it up. There is no difference in the quality of the audio and video whether I run a full Blu-ray (uhd) title or I rip it to an mkv file. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostByte 5053 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 Just now, CAPRICORNX10X said: So to sum it up. There is no difference in the quality of the audio and video whether I run a full Blu-ray (uhd) title or I rip it to an mkv file. There is no quality lost with Makemkv. It doesn't encode anything, it just remuxes. It's like taking the contents from one box and putting it into another box. The quality of what's inside doesn't change. If you really want to you can take your output MKV file and use something like Tsmuxer and put it right back into UHD folder format. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAPRICORNX10X 68 Posted June 25, 2022 Author Share Posted June 25, 2022 1 minute ago, FrostByte said: If you really want to you can take your output MKV file and use something like Tsmuxer and put it right back into UHD folder format. what you mena bro? You can give more detail please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostByte 5053 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 1 minute ago, CAPRICORNX10X said: what you mena bro? You can give more detail please Is that something you really want to do? Unless you have something like a OPPO which can both read 4K movies in BDMV folder format and then play both the DV base layer and enhanced player it's not really necessary. Basically, though you just demux everything from your mkv and throw it into Tsmuxer. It has an option to create BDMV folder which will be just like it was on your UHD without the stuff you eliminated in Makemkv. The whole process can just go around in circles using the two apps because nothing is changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAPRICORNX10X 68 Posted June 25, 2022 Author Share Posted June 25, 2022 (edited) 38 minutes ago, FrostByte said: Is that something you really want to do? My ultimate goal is to have an uncompromising viewing experience, with the maximum quality of the title. I do not care if it will be mkv / mt2s / BDMV / iso My intention is that if the highest quality is to leave the title as it is in the BDMV file then I will watch so. But if the same quality stays in the mkv file then I will watch in mkv because it is more convenient and flexible Edited June 25, 2022 by CAPRICORNX10X 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbjtech 4291 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, CAPRICORNX10X said: But if the same quality stays in the mkv file then I will watch in mkv because it is more convenient and flexible Agree 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostByte 5053 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 What client are you using? That may factor somewhat into the format you want to use. However, mkv will probably be the best overall as long as the client supports DV in mkv. The internal LG app is the only one I'm aware of which MP4 may be the best way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbjtech 4291 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 46 minutes ago, FrostByte said: What client are you using? That may factor somewhat into the format you want to use. However, mkv will probably be the best overall as long as the client supports DV in mkv. The internal LG app is the only one I'm aware of which MP4 may be the best way The LG App/hw doesn't passthrough HD Audio - so I would imagine the Shield Pro is the only real option here for maximum quality. Roku can also process HD-Audio (before I get slated by the Roku crew lol) but I'm not 100% on the its DV playback capabilities .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAPRICORNX10X 68 Posted June 25, 2022 Author Share Posted June 25, 2022 emby lg theater app dont support hd audio are you sure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbjtech 4291 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, CAPRICORNX10X said: emby lg theater app dont support hd audio are you sure? 100% - no 'TV Client' supports HD-Audio from an Application. You need to use a Shield, FireTV 4K or Roku - there are plenty of topics on this if you do a search. edit - I even wrote a tech article on it .. but this was back in 2019/2020 - but I don't believe anything has changed. https://support.emby.media/support/solutions/articles/44001984861-why-does-the-emby-app-for-my-lg-tv-not-play-the-dolby-atmos-truehd-audio-without-transcoding- Edited June 25, 2022 by rbjtech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roaku 797 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 Do any Rokus truly support HD audio formats? I've only seen some of them support extracting the DTS core from DTS-HD, but that's it. No actual support for DTS-HD output and nothing for TrueHD. I have a bunch of Rokus but switch to a Shield when I'm going to watch something with DTS-HD or TrueHD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAPRICORNX10X 68 Posted June 25, 2022 Author Share Posted June 25, 2022 1 hour ago, rbjtech said: 100% - no 'TV Client' supports HD-Audio from an Application. You need to use a Shield, FireTV 4K or Roku - there are plenty of topics on this if you do a search. edit - I even wrote a tech article on it .. but this was back in 2019/2020 - but I don't believe anything has changed. https://support.emby.media/support/solutions/articles/44001984861-why-does-the-emby-app-for-my-lg-tv-not-play-the-dolby-atmos-truehd-audio-without-transcoding- And the powerdvd 22 software can? If I attach it to an external player through the emby theater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAPRICORNX10X 68 Posted June 25, 2022 Author Share Posted June 25, 2022 But if I remember correctly powerdvd 22 there is no support for dolby vision ... or am I wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbjtech 4291 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 1 hour ago, roaku said: Do any Rokus truly support HD audio formats? I've only seen some of them support extracting the DTS core from DTS-HD, but that's it. No actual support for DTS-HD output and nothing for TrueHD. I have a bunch of Rokus but switch to a Shield when I'm going to watch something with DTS-HD or TrueHD. Ah maybe you are correct - I think the latest Ultra can do some/all profiles of DV but looking at the specs, no mention of HD-Audio as you say. @speechles will know for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAPRICORNX10X 68 Posted June 25, 2022 Author Share Posted June 25, 2022 I also now see in the compatibility specification of powerdvd 22 Nor does it support HD-Audio Nor does it support dolby vision or hdr10 + Supports only hdr10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAPRICORNX10X 68 Posted June 25, 2022 Author Share Posted June 25, 2022 This whole complication really sucks, to have a perfect viewing experience. I really thought emby was the perfect platform...and now my oled lg not Not suitable for emby what about samsung tv? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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