Using Emby WITHOUT Internet

[pwhodges 1534]

49 minutes ago, Jamr said:

I disagree as I would be the first to pay for a lifetime membership and even side load the app if it worked without internet access.

That wouldn't help if Emby were to be shut down because of excessive misuse.

Paul

[Jamr 3]

1 hour ago, pwhodges said:

That wouldn't help if Emby were to be shut down because of excessive misuse.

Paul

Again sinking to the lowest common denominator while punishing the honest players.

Besides, limiting how may simultaneous streams would curb that kind of activity.

[rbjtech 4300]

9 hours ago, Jamr said:

Besides, limiting how may simultaneous streams would curb that kind of activity.

Limiting to local LAN only - if you have remote access enabled, then you have internet access - it's that simple.

Devices such as the HD Homerun limit this ability to stream over the internet by reducing the TCP/IP TTL to 1 - ie one 'hop' after which it dies once it's hits your local gateway.  ie LAN only.

Emby could do something similar, but it would probably still be open to abuse for those with more advanced networking knowledge.

[moviefan 184]

On 12/2/2022 at 3:17 AM, rbjtech said:

Limiting to local LAN only - if you have remote access enabled, then you have internet access - it's that simple.

Devices such as the HD Homerun limit this ability to stream over the internet by reducing the TCP/IP TTL to 1 - ie one 'hop' after which it dies once it's hits your local gateway.  ie LAN only.

Emby could do something similar, but it would probably still be open to abuse for those with more advanced networking knowledge.

This is an interesting idea that I do like.  But you are right in your latter comment about the networking knowledge as anyone could configure their firewall to source NAT inbound traffic to Emby so it appeared to originate from the local LAN.

Outside of that workaround though I love the idea of being able to serve local LAN without checking in.

[wordlover 103]

I am having problems with my internet today (major west coast storms), and am surprised to be intermittently but repeatedly locked from playing my Emby content. What is the "phone home" validation interval?

[pwhodges 1534]

I think it's meant to be a week.  What I don't know is how long the Internet has to be up again for Emby to notice and do the check that resets the clock - I'd guess that restarting Emby at that point would force it to check again.

Paul

[wordlover 103]

Hmm, I got locked 3 times in 4 hours, while internal network was running fine, just external ISP connection was down. Can any Emby staff confirm the validation interval or suggest another reason this might have happened?

[ebr 14944]

8 hours ago, wordlover said:

Hmm, I got locked 3 times in 4 hours, while internal network was running fine, just external ISP connection was down. Can any Emby staff confirm the validation interval or suggest another reason this might have happened?

Hi. We'd have to look at exactly what you were doing and what was happening.

[wordlover 103]

2 hours ago, ebr said:

Hi. We'd have to look at exactly what you were doing and what was happening.

Over a several hour period I was streaming music. Several times the system stopped advancing to the next track in the play queue. When I checked what was going on, I saw my ISP connection was down, although all was working fine on the internal network. What is the 'phone home' validation interval Emby requires internet access for, to continue streaming?

[ebr 14944]

20 hours ago, wordlover said:

Over a several hour period I was streaming music. Several times the system stopped advancing to the next track in the play queue. When I checked what was going on, I saw my ISP connection was down, although all was working fine on the internal network. What is the 'phone home' validation interval Emby requires internet access for, to continue streaming?

Hi.  That does not sound like it has anything to do with our validation.  Do you have a server log from when that happened.

[TylerTheGoose 4]

I know this is an older thread but if like to put in my two cents. I just cut off my internet after they wanted a 28% price hike. That and here the power goes out on a regular basis. And our neighbours 30km down the road loose power for 3 days at a time. My point is there are lots of us (and I suspect this will be more as time carries on) that live on a scetchy grid or just can't justify constantly increasing rates. 

I really like the one hop exemption for offline systems. (would a wifi router count as a hop?) I went through the process of setting up a second gateway Ap to tether my internal network to my phone (*shudder* metered usage) so that I could check in with the emby servers without realizing I had to turn my webos TV on and let it check in as well? So the server on my Nas checked in as per the logs but the tv still prompts me and I'm missing things like skip intro... Also it really doesn't like having no internet and the nag screen will sometimes go haywire (just keeps popping up) and I have to turn it off and on again. 

What about how Windows activation works when offline where the server can give a code that you can call (ms calls in but a sideload website would work) in and get an activation response and type it in? Or linking the key to an email login and doing something like an auth token for the server device and limit active activations? 

For the one hop routing exemption I wonder how many of your users have a firewall setup to bypass it? I mean I could have with my setup (pre internet cutoff) but personally have no intention of doing it. 

Also wouldn't the server keep track of unique clients and drop them off the active count if they don't connect to keep track of clients. The server itself could manage excessive client usage without phoning home. 

And finally no matter what anti abuse method one chooses there will be those who find a way around it. I just hope we can find a happy medium for us poor shlups without a constant internet connection. 

Just a few thoughts I've had sitting here on my phone thinking about setting up my tethered ap rig again (precious mobile data) to see if the tv can phone home too. Hopefully it does it right at the start but I won't know for sure till nag time tonight. 

I'd just love to find a solution that makes everyone happy. 

Tyler

PS. loving emby and don't regret purchasing a license! 

[Jamr 3]

I do not understand these companies reluctance to do this. The first ones to figure it out gets my money for a lifetime license.

Seems to me that the internet is becoming more and more non existent for people due to varying factors.Also seems logical to make something that works for these people also.

[TylerTheGoose 4]

Hi Jamr,

I can get where they are coming from. I mean, most of the population lives in cities and are generally always connected (At a lot less than us rural ppl pay) I lived in a city for over 15 years and didn't think twice about it. (Well except for subscription apps that phone home. I've always, umm, tolerated it as a necessary evil). But when I moved into my motorhome for a year and wandered across the continent there were times when I'd stop in areas with no cell coverage at all and stay for 10+ days (This was also before Starlink [also ~$180 CAD / mo. when I last looked] was a thing). It was glorious to be offline in the dead silence of the winter desert. But it really made me re-think connectivity and what it means to disconnect from the net. 

Here I am getting ready to move back into the motorhome this spring and have to sort this kind of thing out again. Like others say it does work without but I miss the advanced features like skip intro and no nag screen. And if the market/world keeps going the way its going a home internet connection is a luxury that lots of people won't be able to afford. "Hrm it's -30c outside this month. Do I pay for internet or for my heating bill?". One may scoff but it's not that far away. 

I won't be dropping Emby and I think the price I paid was really worth it if nothing more than to say "Thank you for such a great product" and one little niggle like Offline mode isn't a deal breaker for me but it's still there.... wriggling around in my head like a little worm. 

 

How does steam handle offline mode? My laptop has been offline for several weeks (The bloody WIFI card died so I couldn't even tether if I wanted to) and it doesn't nag me about my purchases or stop me from playing. Even though now that I have a new wifi card it'll talk to my tablet for streaming games between them while in offline mode. 

I dunno... it's a thing I think there's a solution. It's just convincing our Emby overlords its worth perusing  

[ebr 14944]

5 hours ago, TylerTheGoose said:

Also wouldn't the server keep track of unique clients and drop them off the active count if they don't connect to keep track of clients. The server itself could manage excessive client usage without phoning home

Hi. Then all it takes to get around the limit is spinning up multiple servers. 
 

[TylerTheGoose 4]

20 minutes ago, ebr said:

multiple servers

multiple *offline* servers.

 

So does that mean with my server being offline for weeks at a time I'm going to start running into the "Limited Playback (one-minute only)" as mentioned in the features? Do I need to start thinking about replacing Emby because I'm going to be forced to?

[ebr 14944]

I would test it out to see how it works for you.  We have some long-time members who use the system in an only periodically connected environment.  One of our moderators uses it from a ship at sea.  So it will just depend on which apps you use and your exact scenario.

[TylerTheGoose 4]

Well, I ended up switching to JellyFin. It's a bit rougher around the edges (I think that might be my Synology Setup more than anything). But it doesn't hang or glitch out on the TV at nag screen time (There is no nag screen). 

However licensing is validated on Emby it doesn't happen at app start. It must be just at nag screen time? As tethering my home network to my phone for internet and then loading Emby on my TV and watching a show and then disconnecting still triggered the nag screen later that night. And I know the TV had internet because it, of course, immediately popped up with an update. As well, the Emby server also had internet.

 

I might come back to Emby when I have a permanent internet connection again but for long term offline use its no different than sticking with a free license. 

 

Thanks for your patience listening to me work though it,

 

Tyler

[visproduction 124]

How about using mobile QR codes to authenticate?
 https://developers.google.com/android/management/provision-device#about_qr_codes

1) Emby new function uses some hash method to generate a QR code that confirms the user's install license number - Query: "Is this software licensed?" - QR code A (ask)

2) QR Code is scaned by mobile phone (point at the screen) and user forwards it to new service - Emby QR code email address, that auto reviews this QR code A. 

3) Emby processes incoming QR code A and sends either -

  a) Return Email - Failure to confirm license - contact your support.  This copy of Emby does not appear to have a valid license.

  b) Return email - License is confirmed.  Emby creates and sends a QR code R (response) -  User uses some method to send the QR code R from mobile to the server.  Server has a camera that can read the QR code, mobile casts the QR code via bluetooth, local Wifi into the server. The QR code R coming in causes Emby to do another QR code A2 (2nd time) and confirms that QR code A2 matches the first QA code A.  That is how the process only confirms a software license that has sent the QR code A.  Perhaps use a hash methods to confirm this match.  Match is made.  License is renewed for an offline server.

4) Both QR codes could time out, depending on whatever business logic makes sense to avoid misuse.

Ok, this is obviously complex for a low percentage of users who want to prove license is valid, off-line.  Using 256 Hash or other security options to create the QR codes may be a good strong solution that continues to work.  Besides all the new functions, the challenge is to insure the unique QR Code A can only be made by the one user with one license and QR Code R starts a process that asks again for a QA Code A2 (2nd time) to be created and only authenticates when the QR Code A tests against the QR code A2 (2nd time).  If they match, then Emby receives license confirmation.  If there is no match with the QA Code A2 (2nd time), than there is no license confirmation and Emby features stay turned off.

Obvious business analysis: Estimate code dev - say 50 hours with testing, possibly longer vs. number of clients who need this, maybe 5?  It seems impractical and should not really be approved, but perhaps some developer can think of an easier way to use Mobile to authenticate. -- Just an idea.

Edited November 25, 2023 by visproduction

[ebr 14944]

37 minutes ago, visproduction said:

perhaps some developer can think of an easier way to use Mobile to authenticate.

Perhaps but then there is also the device limit issue.  Plus, I imagine a large percentage of the folks for whom their server doesn't have an internet connection, their cell phone also doesn't.

38 minutes ago, visproduction said:

Estimate code dev - say 50 hours with testing

Oh, and we'd like to hire this guy .

[visproduction 124]

3 hours ago, ebr said:

Perhaps but then there is also the device limit issue.

Aha, so multiple users is serviced by authentication process.  That seems more secure and understanable.  WIth that security choice, then authentication for offline services would seem to not be possible.  Maybe the answer is best with satellite Internet access for all the off-grid explorers.

[pwhodges 1534]

6 hours ago, ebr said:

Perhaps but then there is also the device limit issue.

Which may be less of an issue than you think, because while the server is off the Internet there's no significant possibility of large numbers of new clients connecting to it.  The scope for misuse is miniscule.

Paul

[roaku 797]

44 minutes ago, pwhodges said:

Which may be less of an issue than you think, because while the server is off the Internet there's no significant possibility of large numbers of new clients connecting to it.  The scope for misuse is miniscule.

Paul

It might be difficult for this hypothetical Emby server to recognize the difference between no Internet access and strategically denied Internet access.

[cptlores 23]

This is the same issue as with all DRM in general. Punish all legal users, to try and prevent some bad actors.

Edited November 26, 2023 by cptlores

[roaku 797]

52 minutes ago, cptlores said:

This is the same issue as with all DRM in general. Punish all legal users, to try and prevent some bad actors.

A lot of legal users will be punished if the app stores/rights holders decide Emby isn't doing enough to prevent piracy through its platform.

[Gilgamesh_48 945]

56 minutes ago, roaku said:

A lot of legal users will be punished if the app stores/rights holders decide Emby isn't doing enough to prevent piracy through its platform.

The internet and even Emby itself has recent detailed experience about innocent users getting punished because people using a service chose to violate laws/standards and that forced/allowed all of that service to be blacklisted. In all areas of law enforcement a few trouble makers ruin things for everybody. 

That is people can only be trusted to screw things up and get everyone inconvenienced.  

There was a park near where I lived in Dallas many years ago  that I really liked taking my dog to for late night frolics and fun. He loved it and so did I. But the police cracked down on drug and other illegal activities in another park and that caused the criminals to move to "my" park which made it less fun but that was not the end. The city ended up closing all parks sundown to sunset in the area and arresting everybody they saw in the park after dark. 

It is just how our system works. Everybody loses rights when a few people abuse them.