Unable to play in 5.1 surround sound

[GrimReaper 3310]

39 minutes ago, Jerin20 said:

 I was just going to actually.. here you go..

Yep, that's one eliminated. Can't think of anything else to do but wait till we hear from @ebr.

Edit: Actually, one more thing to try: Play an item, during playback bring OSD up (press Down on the remote), click Cog icon, select Playback correction, as that should trigger a Remux. See how does that compare.

Edited March 10, 2022 by GrimReaper
Afterthought

[ebr 14935]

Hi.  The issue is the optical connection.  Your TV does not have one of its HDMI ports labeled as "ARC"  or "EARC"?

The app is interrogating the HDMI connection for audio capabilities and getting none. 

Our standard app may handle this better but switching to HDMI for audio would be optimal.

[GrimReaper 3310]

4 minutes ago, ebr said:

Your TV does not have one of its HDMI ports labeled as "ARC"  or "EARC"?

Yep, as per TV manual, OP's HDMI4 is ARC, hence asked:

2 hours ago, GrimReaper said:

does your amp/receiver have HDMI In?

Still don't know, though. 

[Jerin20 1]

 

5 hours ago, GrimReaper said:

Yep, as per TV manual, OP's HDMI4 is ARC, hence asked:

Still don't know, though. 

I've attached both manuals - for my amp (Pioneer VSX-LX 70 - bought in 2008) and the TV (Sony Bravia KD-75X8500D). The connection panel diagram is on page 12 for both manuals where you can see:

• The TV has an HDMI (Arc) connection - marked as HDMI in
• The amp has 4 HDMI input ports and 1 output port.

 

Pioneer - VSX-LX 70 Manual.pdf Sony TV - KD-75X8500D Manual.pdf

[Jerin20 1]

5 hours ago, ebr said:

Hi.  The issue is the optical connection.  Your TV does not have one of its HDMI ports labeled as "ARC"  or "EARC"?

The app is interrogating the HDMI connection for audio capabilities and getting none. 

Our standard app may handle this better but switching to HDMI for audio would be optimal.

• I've replied to the ports query above. You can see the whole connection panel diagrams in the attached manuals for both my devices on page 12.
• Why is the app interrogating just the HDMI connection ? Can it be changed to interrogate the optical too ? 
• Which is the standard app that you're referring to which could handle this better.. Is it a different one than the beta I've just installed ? Just to confirm - my Emby Server version is 4.6.7.0, and Emby android TV app is 2.0.70g (Beta). I had the previous android version downloaded from play store but it didn't handle anything differently than the beta version, so not sure which is the standard app being referred to in this context.
• I'm not sure if the HDMI ports on my amp can handle audio too - given that the amp was purchased back in 2008 and all, but the point is, how are the other android apps like Plex, Prime, Netflix etc. able to successfully pass through surround sound via the optical cable without any issues? Isn't there something that can be done here - adding a plugin or something?

[Jerin20 1]

6 minutes ago, Jerin20 said:

• I've replied to the ports query above. You can see the whole connection panel diagrams in the attached manuals for both my devices on page 12.
• Why is the app interrogating just the HDMI connection ? Can it be changed to interrogate the optical too ? 
• Which is the standard app that you're referring to which could handle this better.. Is it a different one than the beta I've just installed ? Just to confirm - my Emby Server version is 4.6.7.0, and Emby android TV app is 2.0.70g (Beta). I had the previous android version downloaded from play store but it didn't handle anything differently than the beta version, so not sure which is the standard app being referred to in this context.
• I'm not sure if the HDMI ports on my amp can handle audio too - given that the amp was purchased back in 2008 and all, but the point is, how are the other android apps like Plex, Prime, Netflix etc. able to successfully pass through surround sound via the optical cable without any issues? Isn't there something that can be done here - adding a plugin or something?

Just adding to the above, let's for a moment set aside the discussion about changing my optical output connection because, at the bare minimum the TV manual clearly states (refer page 28) that the Digital Audio Out (Optical) jack can output the following formats:

1. Two channel linear PCM
2. Dolby Digital
3. DTS

This is why I'm able to play these formats perfectly well in the other apps (Plex, Netflix, Prime) without any need to change to HDMI or anything. So evidently, the problem is clearly down to how emby's android TV app (or server application maybe, I'm not sure) is able to pass through these sound formats just like the others do. How can we fix this ?

[seanbuff 841]

19 minutes ago, Jerin20 said:

Which is the standard app that you're referring to which could handle this better..

Okay two things to try. You can try sideloading the standard Android app onto your TV to see how it compares - https://emby.media/emby-for-android.html

I can't comment on why the Android TV app would interrogate the HDMI connection but not the Optical, but in saying that - you've indicated that your TV has ARC on HDMI 4 ...ARC stands for "Audio Return Channel" which means you can use it as in input but also as an audio output, so theoretically you could try plugging a HDMI from HDMI4 on your TV, to one of the HDMI inputs on your A/V Amp and you might be in luck.

See how you go with either of those tests.

[Jerin20 1]

24 minutes ago, seanbuff said:

Okay two things to try. You can try sideloading the standard Android app onto your TV to see how it compares - https://emby.media/emby-for-android.html

I can't comment on why the Android TV app would interrogate the HDMI connection but not the Optical, but in saying that - you've indicated that your TV has ARC on HDMI 4 ...ARC stands for "Audio Return Channel" which means you can use it as in input but also as an audio output, so theoretically you could try plugging a HDMI from HDMI4 on your TV, to one of the HDMI inputs on your A/V Amp and you might be in luck.

See how you go with either of those tests.

My TV manual (page 14) says - "If connecting a digital audio system that is compatible with Audio Return Channel (ARC) technology, use HDMI IN 4. If not, an additional connection with DIGITAL AUDIO OUT (OPTICAL) is necessary."

There is absolutely no mention of 'ARC' anywhere in the receiver's manual, or if any one of the receiver's 4 HDMI input ports can process or recognize ARC signals from another source.

But my question is, why not simply make it work through the optical audio output jack? Like I mentioned earlier, it can process PCM, DD and DTS, and that's all I really need.

[GrimReaper 3310]

7 hours ago, Jerin20 said:

 

I've attached both manuals - for my amp (Pioneer VSX-LX 70 - bought in 2008) and the TV (Sony Bravia KD-75X8500D). The connection panel diagram is on page 12 for both manuals where you can see:

• The TV has an HDMI (Arc) connection - marked as HDMI in
• The amp has 4 HDMI input ports and 1 output port.

 

Pioneer - VSX-LX 70 Manual.pdf 3.42 MB · 1 download Sony TV - KD-75X8500D Manual.pdf 4 MB · 0 downloads

I reckon you should have good chance (though based on equipment model year, there might be some handshake issues, so sequence of starting equipment might (or might not) play a part there) connecting your TV HDMI4 to any of your amp's HDMI In and getting audio, as @seanbuff suggested. 

That said, following the rest of your queries: in today's day and age, HDMI is the way to go. While optical can carry some audio formats, it is very limited in doing so (no multi-channel LPCM, no DD+, no DTS-HD MA.., no 7.1), there is simply too much information (even compressed) for that connection to pass advanced audio codecs. With more and more widespread use of even more advanced codecs (DTS:X, Dolby Atmos..., 7.1+) those limitations become even more glaring. Granted, you do have a point with what you said and it fits your needs - and it should be supported, as optical is not abandoned yet, tbh didn't even know that ATV app interrogates only HDMI - but for future-proofing (and even presently, as you do have DTS-HD MA tracks, as per original issue, and likely some DD+ in your collection) you should definitely think about switching to HDMI.

Edited March 11, 2022 by GrimReaper
Typo

[Jerin20 1]

I understand your point about switching to HDMI being the advanced / updated solution and all, which I agree. However, what I still am unable to understand is why doesn't Emby allow a pass thru of those basic formats through optical audio which the TV is capable to output i.e. PCM, DD or DTS?

These formats are all that the TV can output even if I were to connect an ARC cable to, say, a (hypothetical) new receiver with an ARC port isn't it? Is the emby player incapable of this, or is there another update / plugin that can fix this ? Surely, Plex, Prime and Netflix should've had the same problem but they don't - they're perfectly fine with my optical cable providing digital outputs across all three formats without any hiccups, so I'm just trying to understand if this is a limitation with Emby?

[GrimReaper 3310]

1 hour ago, Jerin20 said:

so I'm just trying to understand if this is a limitation with Emby?

It would appear so, yes, based on your results. But @ebr is the only one that can give an exact answer to that. 

[ebr 14935]

10 hours ago, Jerin20 said:

Can it be changed to interrogate the optical too ?

Hi.  There is no such ability.  Optical is a one-way connection.  This is why HDMI was created - to replace the very limited SPDIF (optical) format.

If you connect the ARC channel from your TV to  your AVR, I think everything will work properly for you.  Or,  you can try side loading the standard app which may be able to force the output to the SPDIF connection.  There may also be more settings in your TV (custom instead of auto) where you can tell it exactly which formats to pass via SPDIF.

 

[rbjtech 4289]

I think the point the OP is making - and I agree with - is why do all the other Apps pass AC3, DTS Core via the SPDIF to his AVR but the Emby App does not ?

We KNOW HDMI should be the way to go, but the OP is perfectly correct in that HDMI ARC will provide very little (if anything) over SPDIF in terms of Codec support - due to not only the lack of e-arc on the receiver but also the inability for ANY TV App to use e-arc for HD Audio output even if it did have the interfaces.

Table from HDMI.org - but the Max Bandwidth is technically wrong, as SPDIF works just fine with 1536Kbps DTS and it's also wrong stating 384 Kbits (AC3..), as SPDIF works with 640Kbps AC3 as well ..

So all ARC/HDMI has over SPDIF is CEC control - there are no Codec benefits to using it.

Edited March 11, 2022 by rbjtech

[GrimReaper 3310]

15 minutes ago, rbjtech said:

I think the point the OP is making - and I agree with - is why do all the other Apps pass AC3, DTS Core via the SPDIF to his AVR but the Emby App does not ?

We KNOW HDMI should be the way to go, but the OP is perfectly correct in that HDMI ARC will provide very little (if anything) over SPDIF in terms of Codec support - due to not only the lack of e-arc on the receiver but also the inability for ANY TV App to use e-arc for HD Audio output even if it did have the interfaces.

Likewise agree:

6 hours ago, GrimReaper said:

you do have a point with what you said and it fits your needs - and it should be supported, as optical is not abandoned yet

but getting OP to test switching to HDMi was for purely practical purposes, so he could possibly get multi-channel audio now as opposed to waiting when/if at all the app gets updated or sideload standard app. That said, I must admit that I thought that passthrough over SPDIF was a given (and naturally supported by ATV app) and never gave it a second thought till now.

Edited March 11, 2022 by GrimReaper

[rbjtech 4289]

4 minutes ago, GrimReaper said:

Likewise agree:

but getting OP to test switching to HDMi was for purely practical purposes, so he could possibly get multi-channel audio now as opposed to waiting when/if at all the app gets updated or sideload standard app. That said, I must admit that I though that passthrough over SPDIF was a given (and naturally supported by ATV app) and never gave it a second thought till now.

Yep - infact the OP may like the fact that when they turn on their TV, with an HDMI/ARC connection with CEC, it will also turn on their AVR at the same time - and turn it off when they turn the TV off   

That in itself is worth a play ! 

Edited March 11, 2022 by rbjtech

[Jerin20 1]

38 minutes ago, rbjtech said:

I think the point the OP is making - and I agree with - is why do all the other Apps pass AC3, DTS Core via the SPDIF to his AVR but the Emby App does not ?

We KNOW HDMI should be the way to go, but the OP is perfectly correct in that HDMI ARC will provide very little (if anything) over SPDIF in terms of Codec support - due to not only the lack of e-arc on the receiver but also the inability for ANY TV App to use e-arc for HD Audio output even if it did have the interfaces.

Table from HDMI.org - but the Max Bandwidth is technically wrong, as SPDIF works just fine with 1536Kbps DTS and it's also wrong stating 384 Kbits (AC3..), as SPDIF works with 640Kbps AC3 as well ..

So all ARC/HDMI has over SPDIF is CEC control - there are no Codec benefits to using it.

Hallelujah!!

THANK YOU for making my point so lucid!

This is exactly what I wanted to find out from support right from the start. In summary - a very simple question - all other apps are fine to pass AC3, DD and DTS through optical, but Emby simply doesn't want to - Why ? All I was hearing so far is "Buy a new receiver, and an ARC cable, just to run Emby. lol"

It's clearly a limitation in my opinion with the Emby Android app. 

[GrimReaper 3310]

3 minutes ago, Jerin20 said:

All I was hearing so far is "Buy a new receiver, and an ARC cable, just to run Emby.

I don't remember at any point anyone nudging you to go for a new receiver and HDMI was preferred due to a possibility of solving your issue right now, as explained above. Of course, it is all up to you whether to do it or wait for a solution that might never come. We have all agreed that app should bitstream over SPDIF (which I honestly thought goes without saying) - fact is it isn't, and I have to admit that I'm a bit puzzled that you'd rather debate it here rather that stick two ends of a cable and likely (that you can only check by making an actual test) get your problem solved inside minutes. But to each his own, I guess.  

[ebr 14935]

58 minutes ago, rbjtech said:

I think the point the OP is making - and I agree with - is why do all the other Apps pass AC3, DTS Core via the SPDIF to his AVR but the Emby App does not ?

I already said it is basically a deficiency in the TV app and the standard one probably handles it better.  Not sure how to make that more clear.

Optical is a dying/dead connection type so it just isn't getting much attention or development.  It is also possible that changing some settings on the TV (so that the app does know what is available via SPDIF) will solve the issue.

4 hours ago, ebr said:

There may also be more settings in your TV (custom instead of auto) where you can tell it exactly which formats to pass via SPDIF.

I've offered three different ways to possibly solve this issue immediately.

[Jerin20 1]

Ok.. So I tried the standard app, side loading, 3 TV digital out settings - none of which changed anything.. Still stereo output.

The width of the HDMI arc port on my TV is smaller than the HDMI port on my 2008 amp which has no ARC written anywhere on it, so clearly the amp does not accept an arc connection - again, verified this online as well. 

I'm not really sure what else to say. Time to either get a new amp with an ARC hdmi port or simply stick to stereo! 

Anyway, thanks for the views and the prompt replies. 

[ebr 14935]

16 hours ago, Jerin20 said:

so clearly the amp does not accept an arc connection

I don't really think the AVR needs to be aware it is ARC.  To it, it will just look like any other audio input.

As for the size, the TV must have a mini HDMI port (that seems odd though).  You could get an adapter or a cable that is mini to normal HDMI.

[ebr 14935]

Did you investigate this?

22 hours ago, ebr said:

There may also be more settings in your TV (custom instead of auto) where you can tell it exactly which formats to pass via SPDIF.

 

[rbjtech 4289]

17 hours ago, Jerin20 said:

The width of the HDMI arc port on my TV is smaller than the HDMI port on my 2008 amp which has no ARC written anywhere on it, so clearly the amp does not accept an arc connection - again, verified this online as well.

Errmm - according to the manuals - they look to be pretty standard HDMI ports ?

Use HDMI Port 4 - see below ..

 

.. and the HDMI Ports on the Pioneer look standard as well - use Any HDMI Port other than the one circled in red (then select that input on the AVR) 

The one circled in Red is the Monitor/HDMI Out - IF you want to use the AVR as the 'Hub' (and see any 'overlay' that the AVR does) and have OTHER HDMI devices/Analogue devices connected to the AVR that you want displayed on the TV then you need to connect this.

ie you need TWO x HDMI connections to the AVR from the TV.

1) AVR HDMI OUT/Monitor > TV HDMI 1

2) TV HDMI 4 (ARC) > AVR HDMI 1

To view any VIDEO passed through the AVR, you need to select HDMI 1 on the TV, all sound will obvious be processed by the AVR directly.

Edited March 12, 2022 by rbjtech

[Jerin20 1]

4 hours ago, ebr said:

Did you investigate this?

On 3/11/2022 at 7:00 PM, ebr said:

There may also be more settings in your TV (custom instead of auto) where you can tell it exactly which formats to pass via SPDIF.

 

Yes I did. So my TV has three digital output options:

1. Auto 1 - Output compressed audio without change
2. Auto 2 - Output only compressed audio for multi-channel content without change
3. PCM - Always output in PCM

I tried all three but the sound was still stereo. The default setting is Auto 1, which works for Prime and Netflix. Plex works with Auto 1 too, but also has an audio output setting within it which allows us to choose between HDMI, Optical or Auto. On Plex, I set it to optical and it plays all files that are DD, DTS encoded along with its variants.

[Jerin20 1]

3 hours ago, rbjtech said:

Errmm - according to the manuals - they look to be pretty standard HDMI ports ?

Use HDMI Port 4 - see below ..

 

.. and the HDMI Ports on the Pioneer look standard as well - use Any HDMI Port other than the one circled in red (then select that input on the AVR) 

The one circled in Red is the Monitor/HDMI Out - IF you want to use the AVR as the 'Hub' (and see any 'overlay' that the AVR does) and have OTHER HDMI devices/Analogue devices connected to the AVR that you want displayed on the TV then you need to connect this.

ie you need TWO x HDMI connections to the AVR from the TV.

1) AVR HDMI OUT/Monitor > TV HDMI 1

2) TV HDMI 4 (ARC) > AVR HDMI 1

To view any VIDEO passed through the AVR, you need to select HDMI 1 on the TV, all sound will obvious be processed by the AVR directly.

Thanks, I'll give this a shot. Essentially it's now clear to me that Emby simply cannot pass through optical signals like Plex and maybe only works with an HDMI output.

[ssmith129 0]

On 3/12/2022 at 1:11 PM, Jerin20 said:

Thanks, I'll give this a shot. Essentially it's now clear to me that Emby simply cannot pass through optical signals like Plex and maybe only works with an HDMI output.

FYI, I ran into this same shortfall a few years ago when I finally upgraded to a smart TV (also a Sony Bravia model) from an older TV + Roku 3.  My old Yamaha AVR still works fine but doesn't support ARC/eARC so I looked into workarounds until I upgrade my AVR. 

What I found, that works for AC-3 and DTS over optical/TOSlink from the TV to the AVR , was to install the Kodi app for Android TV and install the Emby next-gen add-on for Kodi.  So, when I want watch something in AC-3 or DTS (managed by my Emby server), I use the Kodi app on the TV instead of the Emby app.  Note: it was a learning experience for me to get this working correctly but at least I have surround sound when I want it.

I much prefer the Emby UI over the Kodi UI and I still plan to eventually upgrade to a modern AVR.  Until then, I use the Emby app for media where I'm satisfied with two channel audio and I use the Kodi app for media where I want to enjoy multi-channel audio.