DLNA Issues with Yamaha RXA-1070 and Marantz NA6005

[bigi 3]

I've actually got two different issues with DLNA, one of which i've only noticed tonight! Both relate to DLNA so both are here...

Some quick background - I have two media servers running on a home server, Plex and Emby.  Both run in Service mode on an internal machine that is fully accessible to every other device on the network.  The Emby and Plex apps work without issue on iOS and android based smart devices in the house (TVs/Fire TV/nVidia Shield etc) and are used regularly. I can also stream from these apps to both the Marantz and Yamaha devices from iOS devices as well as spotify etc - In the web interface I can use the remote control functions on these devices without issue also.  There are no internal firewalls blocking traffic and no routing/vlan issues.

Issue 1 - Marantz NA6005 Network Streamer (192.168.200.55)

I bought this network streamer a few months ago, and had this problem, thought it may be due to the firmware so persuaded Marantz to send me the most up to date FW to install.  It's already on the most recent   I noticed by chance that the problems i'm having are purely down to Emby and have now confirmed it is down to the "blast alive messages" option.  Basically, if i don't enable this option, neither the Yamaha or the Marantz will see the Emby server, but will see the Plex server and browse with zero issues.  If i enable the "Blast alive messages" option, the Emby server shows up on the device itself, However it completely crashed the iOS device and i am completely unable to control the network streamer at all - normally resulting in the app shutting down or i have to force close it.  Even after turning this option off again, the app will not respond at all - the only way I can get it to work again is by restarting the media server from a power off.  I can then no longer see the Emby server, but the Plex server shows up and I can browse and select music on there fine.  As soon as I enable this option, the Emby server is visible on the device via front panel but the app dies.  I have tried all sorts to make this behave, including removing the space from the network device name in case that was causing the issue - it wasn't  

One thing I did think of - the app is communicating with the Marantz over network; So i'm wondering if the issue is related to the apps communication with Emby - I have checked the logs and can find mention of both IP addresses the iOS device i've been using the app from making requests to the DLNA server (192.168.200.56/192.168.200.130).  Although Once the app has crashed when the blast option has been enabled; the only way to recover is by rebooting the actual network streamer, not the app - just force closing the app results in it crashing again once reopened.

Issue 2 - Yamaha RXA-1070 AV Receiver (192.168.200.170)

I only discovered this issue tonight - and i know this never used to be and issue, because i've used this in the past fine, although it is at least 12 months ago now due to a house move/life etc!

When investigating the issue with the Marantz, I tried to see if the Emby server was presenting problems on the Yamaha Music server option - and unless the blast option is enabled, the Yamaha does not see it either.  But this has another problem - I can't actually browse all the folders on the Emby server.  There are 12 different folders of Music and Video/Films etc on the server, which spans two screens; but as soon as i move to the second page of options, I only see the "first page" again - in other words, the music categories are completely missing in the browse list.  I have included screenshots to explain what i mean.  Again, I can cast to this device from anywhere and remote control the device from Emby web interface without any problem.

 

Current log attached as well as screenshots.  My only thought is perhaps I need to create custom profiles for these devices for music only perhaps?  clearly they work with Plex seamlessly - unfortunately I hate the music library functionality on it, so use Emby! 

embyserver.txt

[bigi 3]

Just to add a bit more to this, I've just stopped the Emby server, cleared the logs, and rebooted the Marantz.  when i choose the media server option on the display panel on the Marantz (200.55), you can see entries in the Emby log where DLNA comms are apparently behaving as expected.  Also, the app on the iOS device is not seeing the Emby server either, and there are no log entries from that device showing up.

2022-01-07 02:19:44.310 Debug Dlna: Attempting to create PlayToController from location http://192.168.200.170:49154/MediaRenderer/desc.xml
2022-01-07 02:19:44.310 Debug HttpClient: GET http://192.168.200.170:49154/MediaRenderer/desc.xml
2022-01-07 02:19:44.318 Debug Dlna: Found device name RX-A1070 from device properties
2022-01-07 02:19:44.318 Debug Dlna: Dlna Device.Start
2022-01-07 02:19:44.319 Info Dlna: DLNA Session created for RX-A1070 - RX-A1070. Description url: http://192.168.200.170:49154/MediaRenderer/desc.xml
2022-01-07 02:19:44.319 Debug Dlna: Attempting to create PlayToController from location http://192.168.200.170:49154/MediaRenderer/desc.xml
2022-01-07 02:19:44.399 Debug TaskManager: Check for plugin updates Completed after 0 minute(s) and 2 seconds
2022-01-07 02:19:44.748 Info HttpClient: POST https://connect.emby.media/service/Servers?id=cc0b85b459e47881a2fdb52206ca3651
2022-01-07 02:19:45.322 Info HttpClient: GET http://192.168.200.100:49152/upnp/rendertransportSCPD.xml
2022-01-07 02:19:45.330 Info HttpClient: GET http://192.168.200.170:49154/AVTransport/desc.xml
2022-01-07 02:19:45.339 Debug HttpClient: POST http://192.168.200.100:49152/upnp/control/rendertransport1
2022-01-07 02:19:45.341 Debug HttpClient: POST http://192.168.200.170:49154/AVTransport/ctrl
2022-01-07 02:20:19.604 Debug Dlna: Attempting to create PlayToController from location http://192.168.200.55:8080/description.xml
2022-01-07 02:20:19.607 Debug HttpClient: GET http://192.168.200.55:8080/description.xml
2022-01-07 02:20:19.638 Debug Dlna: Found device name Marantz-NA6005 from device properties
2022-01-07 02:20:19.639 Debug Dlna: Dlna Device.Start
2022-01-07 02:20:19.639 Info Dlna: DLNA Session created for Marantz-NA6005 - *NA6005. Description url: http://192.168.200.55:8080/description.xml
2022-01-07 02:20:20.653 Info HttpClient: GET http://192.168.200.55:8080/AVTransport/desc.xml
2022-01-07 02:20:20.681 Debug HttpClient: POST http://192.168.200.55:8080/AVTransport/ctrl

 

[Luke 37132]

Hi, Plex doesn't even have an option to disable the alive messages so you can't really make that comparison. We're just going to remove the option and have it always be active.

[bigi 3]

1 hour ago, Luke said:

Hi, Plex doesn't even have an option to disable the alive messages so you can't really make that comparison. We're just going to remove the option and have it always be active.

OK, so Plex basically is permanently announcing itself on the network, whereas Emby has the option (currently) to turn on or off via this option?  

If that is the case, then why would Plex be able to do this without any issue , but Emby doesn't - if anything removing this option is going to make my issue even worse :s 

[Luke 37132]

1 hour ago, bigi said:

OK, so Plex basically is permanently announcing itself on the network, whereas Emby has the option (currently) to turn on or off via this option?  

If that is the case, then why would Plex be able to do this without any issue , but Emby doesn't - if anything removing this option is going to make my issue even worse :s 

Removing the option will make it just like Plex where it will always announce itself.

[bigi 3]

ok.  so in this case it will make Emby unusable on my home network if i want to use the network streamer then!

I've been doing some more investigation of this problem today; i've set the timings for DLNA discovery and announcement to the same as Plex, but that's made no difference.  What I have noticed from the logs that the app and the streamer behave very differently on the server; the App also is responding with UserAgent: CyberGarage-HTTP/1.1 DLNADOC/1.50 and gets assigned a default profile; whereas the NA6005 comes back with a blank UserAgent definition.  the network streamer is nowhere near as "noisy" on the DLNA server either - it seems to be hitting it several times a minute; whereas the network streamer is barely visible.

 

Would manually creating a profile for the streamer help?  or the app?  I'd really like to get this working as it would be a shame to shut down Emby after the years i've been using it.

 

[Luke 37132]

Quote

ok.  so in this case it will make Emby unusable on my home network if i want to use the network streamer then!

No it won't, or rather, it won't result in any worse behavior then what you're currently seeing.

[Luke 37132]

Chances are the Marantz app crash is actually an issue in the Marantz app, you're just not seeing the issue with Plex because it's two different pieces of software and we're both probably handling communications a little differently. That being said, if we knew what the reason was, we might be able to work around it. It could be anything from the formatting of the messages, the number of times we're sending them, the headers in the message, etc. Maybe Marantz needs something that're not including, it's hard to say.

[bigi 3]

Thanks for the reply Luke.  I would have thought that even though Emby and Plex do things slightly differently, they still use a standard DLNA protocol to communicate by both media servers?

The Marantz app is a rebadged version of the Denon app and is the current app being used for all their streaming and network enabled devices - and it would be really useful to be able to use it for other functions - like powering my amp on and off etc as well as control the streamer - none of which work with Emby running on the network - hence wanting to make it work if possible!

Happy to work with you to pull more information if you want to tell me what you need?

[bigi 3]

I'm just experimenting with other media servers at the moment - so far i haven't found another one that causes this issue on the Marantz app (or displays wrongly on the Yamaha AV amp) - it does seem to indicate the problem may be something Emby is doing as opposed to the app/streamer/receiver?

Mezzmo seems to be the happiest of all so far - It recognises the Marantz streamer and has a specific "Marantz NA" profile for it.  interestingly it doesn't recognise the phone app, so assigns a General profile.  but when playing media from the app, it is the network streamer that is requesting the audio, so the app only seems to browse the media library and trigger the playback with the streamer itself.

Edited January 8, 2022 by bigi

[bigi 3]

So I've now tested the Marantz App and Network streamer behaviour with th efollowing media servers:

 

• Mezzmo
• Universal Media Server
• Serviio
• Plex
• Kodi
• Subsonic

All of these work normally with both the Marantz app and the NA6005 (And have no issues with the Yamaha AV receiver). So far the only server causing a crash is Emby; which would seem to point at something unusual that Emby does with DLNA requests in some way maybe?  As every other media sevrer i've tried it with has no problem it would seem to suggest the issue isn't likely to be either the DLNA protocol not being fully supported or a bug in the Marantz app or NA6005 software.

[Luke 37132]

On 1/7/2022 at 6:37 PM, bigi said:

Thanks for the reply Luke.  I would have thought that even though Emby and Plex do things slightly differently, they still use a standard DLNA protocol to communicate by both media servers?

Sure, but there's probably some small difference causing the Marantz app to crash. What is it, and is this something we should change, or is this something the Marantz app should be able to handle? That's what we don't know yet.

[bigi 3]

totally get your point, it may be the Marantz app with the problem - which is why I wanted to try as many other media servers as I could to see if they caused the same problem.  I was quite relieved when i saw it wasn't a functional problem with the app as i'm about to buy more of their network aware stuff and the app being a no go is a big issue!

 

So i guess now the question is how do we go about identifying the problem  - and then if it is a fixable issue!  As I said earlier, more than happy to do whatever you need to find the info you need - just let me know

[Luke 37132]

Are you handy with wireshark? You could use that to sniff the differences in communications between us and an alternative server that it is working OK with.

[bigi 3]

I know my way around it and can make sense of it most of the time   let me install the latest version and see what i can find

[bigi 3]

ok so i've run a wireshark trace tonight with just Plex and then just Emby DLNA services running; traces run from starting the server, then trying to open the Marantz app, and (in the case of the Plex server), browsing to an album and playing a track, I've attached both logs - the app is on 200.130, server 200.165 and the streamer 200.55.

The logs are obviously different, but the most interesting thing I saw was that Emby looks like its communicating using SSDP and UDP with the app, whereas Plex is using TCP to initiate comms with the app (with much more success!).  It looks like with Emby, the same request repeats without any progress from initiation.

I've attached screenshots of the above, and the wireshark logs for Emby and Plex...hopefully it helps give some more insight!

Emby server - app - server - streamer - start svr, attempt to use app and hang.pcapng PLEX server run2 - app - server - streamer - start svr, search app, play 30sec.pcapng

Edited January 10, 2022 by bigi

[bigi 3]

Just to add as a final check, I installed Emby on another machine, basic config, one share folder of music and enabled DLNA and keepalive.  exact same problem  as my other server with the app - freezes up until server is stopped again.

[Luke 37132]

Thanks, I think they're actually both doing the same things, they're just responding a little differently and therefore the player is acting differently.

For starters, can you install the beta server? If you can then we can try some things there, so that would be the first step. Thanks.

[bigi 3]

Must admity DLNA traffic isn't my strong point! thought it was odd that Emby was performing a get using "dlna/<id>/description.xml" vs just "/description.xml" on Plex but assumed it was doing thsame thing anyway!

 

I've now installed Beta 4.7.0.19 and given the server a reboot.  Exact same issues on there still.  I've left full logging enabled and changed the blast alive messages interval to 300 which seems to be default (I had set it to 1800 to match Plex when i was trying to solve the issue, i wondered if there was too much noise causing a problem with the app)

[Luke 37132]

1 hour ago, bigi said:

Must admity DLNA traffic isn't my strong point! thought it was odd that Emby was performing a get using "dlna/<id>/description.xml" vs just "/description.xml" on Plex but assumed it was doing thsame thing anyway!

 

That's just the way we designed our urls, shouldn't be a problem.

[Luke 37132]

1 hour ago, bigi said:

I've now installed Beta 4.7.0.19 and given the server a reboot.  Exact same issues on there still.  I've left full logging enabled and changed the blast alive messages interval to 300 which seems to be default (I had set it to 1800 to match Plex when i was trying to solve the issue, i wondered if there was too much noise causing a problem with the app)

OK so that's good that you've confirmed it to at least be the same. So now please try the next build. I identified a couple things from the Plex wireshark, not sure they'll be be big difference makers but it's possible. Thanks.

[bigi 3]

i've just tried and i can still only see beta 19 - tried the beta dwonloader and thats still pulling the same version as well?  Or am i being too impatient

[Luke 37132]

It's heading up now.

[bigi 3]

Ok, installed 4.7.0.20 - rebooted.......and it's still the same unfortunately

[Luke 37132]

Hmmm, OK. Thanks for the update.