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turpentine
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turpentine

hello friends,

 

i have successfully installed the https://github.com/MediaBrowser/Emby.Releases/raw/master/tizen/tizen.zip  app on my samsung ue65ru7025 TV via USB.

i got an issue with playback with it. the .SRT subtitles on mkv movies within minutes are no more syncronized with the video. the subtitles shift overtime.

how can i help you to fix this. is there a way to activate logs, or do i need to send some screenshots ?

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turpentine

 

@Luke

i got an issue with the movie dune 1080p 25  fps. only on samsung app

i extracted the .srt file from the mkv

i have read the mkv with other emby client than the tizen one with no issues, for exemple on firefox browser no issues with subtitles.

but it seems the tizen one has a bug in the subtitles code.

if you extract the subtitle file of this movie. there is the caption 30 inside.


30
00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:12,999
<i>Départ de Caladan à 0-10:00.</i>

it seems in the tizen samsung app, it seems when the app see the 30th caption, the timeshift occurs and caption and video is no more synchronized.

 

is it possible to fix it ?

 

Dune.2000.s01e01_track4_[fre].srt

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SamES

Can you please post the media info for this movie (from the details page for the movie on the server) so that we can see all the details of the file?

Do you know if it is DirectPlay or Direct Stream or Transcode during playback?

 

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SamES

I think without a copy of this episode (and some english subtitles) it's going to be hard to diagnose this.  Can you PM a copy of these to me via a link like dropbox?

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turpentine

it is direct play my emby server is on the same lan that my tv i use emby server for synology 4.6.4.0.

unfortunately i have only french subtitles on this one, but english audio is present. i sent you a mega link on pm. it is easy to detect that subtitles are no more synchronized after somes minutes of play. i will add more episodes if needed, there is only 3 episodes. i will PM you the first one for the moment.

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SamES

Thanks, downloading now.  So it always happens with this series?  What about other series?

Is it always the same position/time, or is each episode different? 

For the same episode, if you play it multiple times, does it always happen at the same time?

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SamES

Thanks I've got that.  One thing I notice is that the audio track is DTS, but I'm sure DTS isn't supported on your year model.  Are you sure it is DirectPlay or is it DirectStream?

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turpentine

 

@SamES

yes you are right, it is direct stream, i often do a melting pot with direct play and direct stream, as english is not my mothertongue language.

Direct Stream info

Video Codec H264 (direct)

Audio  codec : AC3

originial media info mkv 25fps dts 768.

you are right samsung does not support anymore DTS that is why emby server transcode only audio to AC3.

I have no issues with sound as my samsung tv send back audio via ARC to my SONY STR-DN1080 7.2 receiver.

audio french or english is always sync with video no issues at all. only subtitles are not sync with video.

only subtitles seems starting shifting after 3 or 4 mins of play at the same moment from the beginning.

subtitles also start to desync if you resume play, in the middle of a dune serie after 3 or 4 minutes of play

the other series other than i have only direct play AC3 or E-AC3 with direct play, no issues seems to occur with subtitles.

but also other stuff has not the same fps for example 23.976

the sync issues only occurs on the samsung tv emby app.

 

for example if i use my tv chromecast4k with my android phone emby app, i think chromecast does not support dts as well, it seems to be direct stream as well with ac3.

With my black chromecast 4k, the dune series has no sync issues with the subtitles. it makes me mad, it only occurs on the tizen app :)

 

thanks for you help

 

 

 

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turpentine

for exemple if you test the file i have sent to you in the tizen app, you can see it always occurs at <i>Départ de Caladan à 0-10:00.</i>

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FrostByte
1 minute ago, turpentine said:

for exemple if you test the file i have sent to you in the tizen app, you can see it always occurs at <i>Départ de Caladan à 0-10:00.</i>

Is there an AC3 track in your file also that you can select before clicking play?  Just wondering if it also happens when direct playing.

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turpentine
3 minutes ago, FrostByte said:

Is there an AC3 track in your file also that you can select before clicking play?  Just wondering if it also happens when direct playing.

unfortunately not, the dune series 2000 only have 2 DTS tracks (english and french). usually with directplay with other series i have not noticed any sync issues.

i have test emby for chromecast no issues with subtitles for the series (direct stream)

i have tested emby for kodi openelec raspberry pi 4 no issues (direct play dts is played in passthrough to home cinema receiver) no issues

i have tested emby on firefox (direct stream, firefox does not support DTS) no issues

i have test in a friend house, emby for google tv chromecast (direct stream as well, does not support dts) no issues with the subtitles.

it seems to be focused on samsung.

 

 

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FrostByte

Thanks.  I have similar issues when Direct Streaming also which is why I try to always use AC3 or EAC3 if possible so I was wondering if it was the same issue.

I'm sure SamES will find something.

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turpentine
6 minutes ago, FrostByte said:

Thanks.  I have similar issues when Direct Streaming also which is why I try to always use AC3 or EAC3 if possible so I was wondering if it was the same issue.

I'm sure SamES will find something.

i hope so :) what is really strange is both LG or samsung the 2 biggest tv manufacturers does not support DTS natively since 2018. DTS licence is expensive. now AC3 is free of charge for every manufacturer on earth.

it may be linked to the direct steam, but i am not an expert, i am just a emby mad user 😛

Edited by turpentine
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SamES

The suggestion by @FrostByte to try an AC3 track is a good one.

Try this method

https://emby.media/community/index.php?/topic/87802-no-audio-on-lg-oled-cx-for-dts/page/2/&tab=comments#comment-941220

As I test I disabled DTS on my (older) TV and after about 3 minutes I could see this issue.  I then enabled DTS again and tried it with DirectPlay.  Even after more than 20 minutes it was still good.

I think if you add an AC3 track it will fix the issue for you.

As to why this happens?  I don't really know.

In the DirectPlay instance, the built in player reads the sub stream directly from the file and triggers each subtitle display.  This works fine

For DirectStream, the server creates the subtitle as a vtt stream which is delivered via HLS to the player.  The player is still responsible to for the timing of the subtitles, but for some reason it gets out of sync with this method.  

I can see that the subtitle timing created by the server looks correct for the DirectStream case

03:10.560 --> 03:13.079
<i>Départ de Caladan à 0-10:00.</i>

Compared to your srt extract

00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:12,999
<i>Départ de Caladan à 0-10:00.</i>

Aside from some sub second rounding, the timing is correct.  My only theory is that the player just doesn't handle this well.  From my experience subtitle handling is very tricky, lots of different cases to handle and this is not the first strange thing that I have seen happen with the built in player and subtitles.

I don't think there is anything specifically here that we can do to actually 'fix' this issue.

You can see exactly what is happening here.  The first column below is the current playback time (milliseconds) when the player triggers the subtitle display.  The second column is the time that the subtitle is supposed to be displayed.  Up until the red line, the subtitle is triggered at approx the time it should be displayed, and we display it immediately at that time.  After the red line it is being triggered too late by the player.  After that it is a mess

You can see from your example above that it  should be triggered at 190560 (3:10.560 sec), but is not triggered until 195810 (3:15.810 sec). You can even see at this same time it is trying to display several subtitles all at once, but they should have all been displayed earlier.  It is just not keeping up for some reason.

image.thumb.png.d743655c1fe6aeb728889739ab6b0918.png

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turpentine

hello @SamES

if i understanding well what you are saying. despite the server is transcoding in live dts to ac3, the samsung tv from 2018 to nowadays, have a so shitty embedded player that it cannot manage subtitles inside a vtt stream ? so every manufactured tv for more than 3 or 4 years, cannot display foreign subtitles when direct stream is activated. this is really a deep pain cause samsung tv will most of the time direct stream, cause they do not support dts anywhere.

so it is not emby mistake, it is a samsung mistake, and even samsung tv in 2021 will still make a fat melting pot with subtitles. shame on you samsung !

could you please help me with adding a blank ac3 stream. i do not understand how to do it and how adding such a thing will solve the issue when direct stream.

or is it a workaround to convert my dts track file into ac3 in order the tv to use direct play instead direct stream ?

thanks for you help.

 

 

 

Edited by turpentine
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turpentine

@FrostByte@SamES

hello friends, i have tried the method there

https://emby.media/community/index.php?/topic/87802-no-audio-on-lg-oled-cx-for-dts/page/2/&tab=comments#comment-941220

its adds only a AC3 track, and of course no more issues with the file. but it is not a fix. it is a workaround. the guys in the post are somehow cheating, they just convert a dts track to a ac3 track with audio loss, in order emby player to be in direct play instead of direct stream, and not have subtitles issues.

i have selected the dts track again, which enables audio DTS->AC3 convertion on the fly, and the problem is again still here.

<i>Départ de Caladan à 0-10:00.</i>

the subtitles are not sync. and the subtitles are comming late again.

a lot a files still have dts tracks, and it is really a pain for users to transcode their files to ac3 just because all samsung tv when using direct stream mode, seems not to display them correcty.

i am an emby premiere user and i do not like plex. i will ask my friend that have plex, if they have the same issue with subtitles on samsung plex app. it is really strange, that all samsung tvs cannot use correctly subtitles inside emby app when using direct stream.

take care of yourself ;)

 

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SamES
12 hours ago, turpentine said:

its adds only a AC3 track, and of course no more issues with the file. but it is not a fix. it is a workaround. the guys in the post are somehow cheating, they just convert a dts track to a ac3 track with audio loss, in order emby player to be in direct play instead of direct stream, and not have subtitles issues.

I agree that this is a work around, but as DTS is not supported by your TV you can either allow the server to automatically convert to AC3 on every playback, or you can convert it once and then DirectPlay.  Either way, the audio quality will be the same (ie: no real difference in audio loss - both will be the same)

I don't know why there is any issue with playback.  I've never seen this problem before, but I can reproduce it with your file.  Maybe there is a timing issue in your file that causes this problem, but to be honest I'm not too sure.  I can't see any other issues.

Do you have another movie or series with DTS and subtitles (not from the Dune series) that you can test to see if this problem occurs with all files, or if it is possibly an issue with just this file/series?

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turpentine

@samES @Luke

100% of my DTS movies i have have the same issue from different sources. it occurs only on samsung emby client on samsung tv. i use emby 4.6.4.0 on a sinology.

 it occurs also with blade runner 2049 which have a dts track in french and ac3 track in english. subtitles are messed up.

it does not occur when direct stream for plex for chromecast for exemple for dune serie

your are right all samsung tv do not support dts, but the issue here is not dts here, as the server transcode to another codec which must besupported with the tv.

chromecast do not support dts as well, and therefore emby for chromecast has no sync issues for the dunes series.

the issue here is direct stream here on samsung emby client. You told it is samsung internal player fault. i made further test, because it feels weird.

i asked a friend to put the same file you also have with only dts tracks on his plex server.

if emby uses internal samsung player, plex should do the same as well and i reproduced the same conditions for the test.

i used samsung plex for tizen. as you can see in the screenshot below, plex is also sending direct stream mode, as he detects the tv does not support DTS, and indeed plex also transcode only audio.

But with plex app for tizen samsung. there is no issues at all subtitles for any mkv with only dts tracks are working well. no sync issues.

how can you explain in direct stream mode for plex there is no subtitles sync issues when playing files that have dts, and direct stream activated

and emby for tizen, has a sync issue for dts mkv files ?

here the plex screenshoot.

i do not think it is samsung fault, because if it was true, plex and emby would have the same issues in the dune series when direct streaming.

what do you think about that ?

 

 

 

 

plex.thumb.jpg.137d503b529731d1284616a341259d31.jpg

 

Edited by FrostByte
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turpentine

@samES @Luke

it is not only one file, it all random files on earth with dts tracks with samsung emby app !

i also tested, any random mkv file that have dts tracks some friends gave me. the same issue is here.

when emby direct stream, the subtitles are out of sync on samsung tv, after some time on the emby tizen app.

i must conclude that the samsung emby tizen app does not work well at all in direct stream mode on samsung tv with subtitiles

there is not only americans or uk or comonwealth people on earth with only AC3 tracks, in order to hide the emby issue in direct play,

there is french german spanish.... people that need subtitles , or even deaf people that would unfortunately would have a DTS track.

the tizen plex app works well in direct stream on samsung tv desptite samsung tv does not support DTS. they also transcode audio, but they seem to transcode DTS to AAC 5.1 instead of AC3, and use a setting Render Decision AppRenders for SRT (i do not know what it really means, maybe the tizen plex app itself display the SRT subtitles)

there is not issues at all in direct stream mode on samsung plex app, even if the TV does not support DTS.

Samsung is the first TV manufacturer of TV on earth, and tizen is the first operating system on earth, on TV. you cannot leave the problem unsolved, just because the only workaround you have is to tell people, transcode yourself your files in order to force emby server direct playing instead of direct streaming.

it is a real universal problem on samsung tizen app with subtitles in "direct stream mode" only, and all  non-commonwealth people will probably have a direct stream mode with their samsung tv instead of direct play. it will also be "direct stream mode" maybe due to poor internet connexions...

most TV manufacturers drop DTS play, but bluray spec standalone players must support DTS. so DTS will never disapear in mkv files.

you should repair the "direct stream mode" on samsung tv tizen app. plex is able to do it why not emby ?

 

thanks a lot and have a nice day.

 

 

Edited by turpentine
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turpentine

any updates ? all direct streamed mkv files with srt subtitles are still out sync on the emby tizen app. have a nice day

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SamES
23 hours ago, turpentine said:

any updates ? all direct streamed mkv files with srt subtitles are still out sync on the emby tizen app. have a nice day

Not really.  The screenshot you included above shows that they are using dash protocol to stream which is a different approach and may account for the performance differences.

All I can say is that I can reproduce your problem, but I can also observe that it is an issue with the way that the internal player is handling our current streaming approach and it is not something that is easy (or even possible ) for us to fix.

As I mentioned previously, both Samsung and LG (two of the largest TV manufacturers) no longer support DTS audio so we have to convert these to an alternate format

On 30/10/2021 at 22:32, turpentine said:

i must conclude that the samsung emby tizen app does not work well at all in direct stream mode on samsung tv with subtitiles

Trying to support all media formats and combinations of video, audio and subtitle formats on as many devices as Emby does is not a trivial exercise.  Yes, there are other ways to support streaming but it is a significant effort to add that support and test it to ensure it works on all platforms, and you must realise that no approach is perfect, each has its downsides and introduces new issues.  This does not mean that it can't or won't happen, but it is something that needs careful planning and resources and the Emby platform is constantly evolving to try and meet the needs of all users.

In the meantime, maybe the best I can offer you is a work around which many have used successfully to add an AC3 track.  Many people experience issues with streaming 4K HDR content with ATMOS or DTS tracks (both unsupported) and many 4K high bitrate formats can become unplayable using the current streaming approach.  I would hope that at some time new streaming methods are implemented but until then a work-around is your best option.

 

 

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turpentine

@samES the fact is plex is working a lot better in their direct "stream mode",  on samsung TV with subtitles, than Emby

it would be better if you can study  a better approach, because direct stream is the most often used.

I have made hours and hours of test.

PLEX DIRECT STREAM MODE (no issues with SRT on samsung plex tizen app even with DTS)

EMBY DIRECT STREAM MODE (all SRT for any random files with DTS is a big mess after some time)

EMBY DIRECT PLAY (works well, but direct play is quite rare and works only with AC3/ATMOS TRACKS)

EMBY TRANSCODE MODE (works well with SRT subtitles, even with DTS on samsung TV (ie dune series). transcoding audio and video at the same times)

i would like to know why itcannot manage subtitles correctly in direct stream mode, but in full transcode mode, to a lower bitrate, everything is fine.

 

 

 

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FrostByte
21 minutes ago, turpentine said:

 

i would like to know why itcannot manage subtitles correctly in direct stream mode, but in full transcode mode, to a lower bitrate, everything is fine.

 

 

 

When transcoding it will burn in the subtitles creating one stream (video/audio) whereas normally with subtitles there would be two streams (video/audio and then subtitles is another)

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SamES

As I mentioned, we’re are using hls streaming, and from your screenshot plex appears to be using dash. 

We deliver the subs as part of the hls stream as this is the most efficient.  Other methods require the subs to be fully extracted before playback commences which can be time consuming. We then leave the Samsung player to handle processing and playback of the video, audio and subs from the hls container

From your experience and my testing, it appears that the Samsung internal player has some issues when processing subs in your files when delivered this way.  I know you have tested a few files, and I don't doubt it is the case, but generally this approach works fine.  To my knowledge, no one else has reported this, but I could be wrong.

Unfortunately I don't have a clear answer for you as to how to best resolve this in the short term.

 

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