Jump to content

Disable HDR on Emby App with Nvidia Shield


Recommended Posts

Noctural

Hello,

First of all, thank you very much for the great work on Emby in general. Awesome !

I have just a problem with Emby app on my Nvidia shield, I want to completely disable HDR and force to use SDR version when I play a movie.

Indeed, I have a Benq Projector and HDR is very ugly compare to SDR version with movie mode.

I try lot of configuration in Nvidia Shield (and force to use in advanced configuration a resolution without HDR) but each time the HDR version is use in Emby.

Thanks a lot for you reply !

PS: sorry for my english...

Link to post
Share on other sites
GrimReaper
49 minutes ago, Noctural said:

Hello,

First of all, thank you very much for the great work on Emby in general. Awesome !

I have just a problem with Emby app on my Nvidia shield, I want to completely disable HDR and force to use SDR version when I play a movie.

Indeed, I have a Benq Projector and HDR is very ugly compare to SDR version with movie mode.

I try lot of configuration in Nvidia Shield (and force to use in advanced configuration a resolution without HDR) but each time the HDR version is use in Emby.

Thanks a lot for you reply !

PS: sorry for my english...

If you're direct playing, Shield should auto-tonemap. If you're transcoding - did you enable "HDR tone mapping" in Dashboard>Transcoding tab?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Noctural
3 minutes ago, GrimReaper said:

If you're direct playing, Shield should auto-tonemap. If you're transcoding - did you enable "HDR tone mapping" in Dashboard>Transcoding tab?

unfortunately my emby server is not powerful enough to transcode content, I use direct play

Link to post
Share on other sites
GrimReaper

Then the issue is why your Shield isn't tonemapping, we just had a discussion recently about that in another thread, if you connect SDR display device you SHOULD get proper colors still. Which model is that? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Noctural
3 minutes ago, GrimReaper said:

Then the issue is why your Shield isn't tonemapping, we just had a discussion recently about that in another thread, if you connect SDR display device you SHOULD get proper colors still. Which model is that? 

I use a projector Benq TK700Sti and nvidia Shield TV (the tube version).

Can you send me the thread about that ?

However, Netflix use the configuration of my shield ! And the HDR is disable correctly 🙂

I add some screenshots.

 

Shield Conf.jpg

Shield Conf 2.jpg

Netflix - No HDR.jpg

Emby - HDR.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
GrimReaper
34 minutes ago, Noctural said:

Can you send me the thread about that ?

 

34 minutes ago, Noctural said:

However, Netflix use the configuration of my shield ! And the HDR is disable correctly 🙂

That's the thing - it doesn't get disabled, it tonemaps. As it should within Emby when direct playing. 

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/shield-tv/9/395454/hdr-to-sdr/

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
cayars

Hi, could the problem be you have turned off tone mapping on the Shield?

If you direct play a 4K HDR video and don't have tone mapping enabled on the Shield TV then the 4K HDR is what will be given to the projector.
In theory even with tone mapping turned enabled on the Shield if the projector is reporting it can do 4K HDR then it won't do the tone mapping and the projector will still get the 4K HDR as is.

Are you sure the media being played back is a format the projector can handle?  Are you able to play it back on the projector using a different program?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
GrimReaper
42 minutes ago, cayars said:

if the projector is reporting it can do 4K HDR then it won't do the tone mapping and the projector will still get the 4K HDR as is.

Based on this photo, I'd presume that's what's happening, as these seem like projector settings:

 

IMG_20210911_155407.jpg

 

Edit: Maybe if HDR could be disabled on the projector, Shield would tonemap as it would interpret it as SDR display? 

From the maker's website:

Quote

Ready Player: One Step Faster

With the world’s first 4K HDR low input lag gaming projector, you no longer have to choose between picture and performance. Breathtaking true 4K UHD 3840x2160 resolution with 8.3 million distinct pixels reduces blur for consistently stunning clarity and crisply defined details. To top off having input lag as low as 16ms without compromising 4K image, TK700STi also delivers vivid HDR color in any lighting, even in bright rooms.

 

Edited by GrimReaper
Append
  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Noctural
1 hour ago, GrimReaper said:

Based on this photo, I'd presume that's what's happening, as these seem like projector settings:

 

IMG_20210911_155407.jpg

 

Edit: Maybe if HDR could be disabled on the projector, Shield would tonemap as it would interpret it as SDR display? 

From the maker's website:

 

Sadly I can't disable the HDR on the projector.

Benq ask to disable this option on the player (input source) :

https://www.benq.com/en-us/support/downloads-faq/faq/product/application/monitor-faq-k-00042.html

I don't know if the problem is in Emby app or if it's shield limitation...

Another solution might be to use an hdmi adapator with EDID emulator to fake the information of the projector and say that it can't support HDR.

But I don't know if this solution can be exist and work !

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Noctural
19 minutes ago, Noctural said:

Sadly I can't disable the HDR on the projector.

Benq ask to disable this option on the player (input source) :

https://www.benq.com/en-us/support/downloads-faq/faq/product/application/monitor-faq-k-00042.html

I don't know if the problem is in Emby app or if it's shield limitation...

Another solution might be to use an hdmi adapator with EDID emulator to fake the information of the projector and say that it can't support HDR.

But I don't know if this solution can be exist and work !

 

I add that sometimes SDR >> HDR, especially on the mid-game projector.

HDR is so ugly, the black is grey, the colors are bland and white scene burn my retina 😢

Link to post
Share on other sites
GrimReaper

Try setting on your Shield: Settings > Display > Advanced Display > Custom Modes > Display Modes > choose RGB 8bit, that should theoretically output everything in SDR?

Link to post
Share on other sites
cayars
1 hour ago, Noctural said:

I add that sometimes SDR >> HDR, especially on the mid-game projector.

HDR is so ugly, the black is grey, the colors are bland and white scene burn my retina 😢

Something just doesn't sound right about this as the picture should be beautiful.

Do you have a notebook with HDMI that could be connected directly to the projector to test play this media with a different app?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Noctural
2 hours ago, cayars said:

Something just doesn't sound right about this as the picture should be beautiful.

Do you have a notebook with HDMI that could be connected directly to the projector to test play this media with a different app?

Yes exactly the same. I use my laptop now to play in SDR... Boring but it's work.

HDR is weakness of my projector.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Noctural
3 hours ago, GrimReaper said:

Try setting on your Shield: Settings > Display > Advanced Display > Custom Modes > Display Modes > choose RGB 8bit, that should theoretically output everything in SDR?

I'll try tomorrow but for the moment all the differents settings that i was try not affect anything on emby.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Noctural
On 9/11/2021 at 6:18 PM, GrimReaper said:

Try setting on your Shield: Settings > Display > Advanced Display > Custom Modes > Display Modes > choose RGB 8bit, that should theoretically output everything in SDR?

Unfortunaltely does not work... Emby don't use the setting from the Shield  😐

According to you, should I report a bug on the Emby App ?

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Noctural said:

Unfortunaltely does not work... Emby don't use the setting from the Shield  😐

Hi.  Do you have the auto refresh rate switching in the app turned on?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Noctural
1 hour ago, ebr said:

Hi.  Do you have the auto refresh rate switching in the app turned on?

I try with this setting enable or disable and same result

Link to post
Share on other sites

If that option is turned off, then we are just sending the video through in the display mode the device is set to.

You are saying your projector supports HDR but it just does it poorly?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Noctural
1 hour ago, ebr said:

If that option is turned off, then we are just sending the video through in the display mode the device is set to.

You are saying your projector supports HDR but it just does it poorly?

Yes exactly, the picture is better in SDR. This observation is share by other user of mid game projector.

I think I can't correct my problem with software, I try tomorrow to use a HDMI emulator with EDID editor to disable HDR.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
cayars

I think something is very wrong in the configuration of your projector.
Have a look at this thread (23 pages) which is showing it be a really nice 4K projector for movie use.
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/benq-tk700sti-review-owners-thread-4k-hdr-low-lag-short-throw-gaming-projector.3198258/

You may want to revert it back to factory settings as something like switching to FAST vs LOW will make for a crappy picture.
SDR content is upsized to 4K by the projector so with correct settings you would want to feed it HDR.

You mentioned Netflix being correct using SDR, but as you'll read the Android TV adapter they give you doesn't support Netflix 4K HDR so it's always going to stream Netflix in SDR.

Many people found that doing upsizing on a different device produces a better picture so with the right configuration you may want to have the Shield TV do the upsizing for you vs the BenQ which it should be able to do.

There are few people in that thread using Shield TVs so that would be a great place to ask specific about setup for both the projector and Shield for HDR media.

Edited by cayars
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
generiq
38 minutes ago, cayars said:

I think something is very wrong in the configuration of your projector.
Have a look at this thread (23 pages) which is showing it be a really nice 4K projector for movie use.
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/benq-tk700sti-review-owners-thread-4k-hdr-low-lag-short-throw-gaming-projector.3198258/

You may want to revert it back to factory settings as something like switching to FAST vs LOW will make for a crappy picture.
SDR content is upsized to HDR by the projector so with correct settings you would want to feed it HDR.

You mentioned Netflix being correct using SDR, but as you'll read the Android TV adapter they give you doesn't support Netflix 4K HDR so it's always going to stream Netflix in SDR.

Many people found that doing upsizing on a different device produces a better picture so with the right configuration you may want to have the Shield TV do the upsizing for you vs the BenQ which it should be able to do.

There are few people in that thread using Shield TVs so that would be a great place to ask specific about setup for both the projector and Shield for HDR media.

I think you're confusing two different elements. You appear to be referring to upscaling the resolution, and the OP is referring to color grading. One is not intrinsic to the other. I don't see anything in the specs saying that it grades SDR into HDR.

It says this, 'Two of these, HDR10 and HDR Game, are only accessible when you connect an HDR source'

Other than that, it appears to be SDR.

 

Edited by generiq
Link to post
Share on other sites
cayars

I don't own one but have been reading about it. This is what I've gathered.

It's rather weird as it's not a true 4K projector but uses XPR pixel-shift technology . The projector will upsize and do color grading/shifting of 1080p content.

The Tk700STi will always upscale (XPR pixel shift) 1080p content to 4K UNLESS you select game/HDR game picture mode in which case the projector will switch to 1080p output for a 1080p source in order to reduce input lag and not ddo XPR pixel shifting.

In gaming mode with the default FPS preset used. FPS intentionally reduces gamma to exaggerate dark level detail. This is so it’s easy to pick out opponents that might be hiding in shadows. The result is a washed out image with grey blacks which is good for that type of game but bad for cinema. A different mode set as default can remove this issue.

If you enable SmartEco mode you can actually achieve a darker shade of black which is something many people complain about.

At all costs do not enable the game/latency mode 'High' and just keep it on 'Low'.

Critical focus is a must for 4K sharpness but most people don't adjust this properly using something like a spotting scope for absolute focus adjustment. You can feed it a 1080p source and select game mode when focusing. This will force the projector back in HD mode and makes it a bit easier to focus around individual pixels (the pixel shift can make finding the edges of individual pixels more difficult). If you have a sharp 1080p image you’ll have a sharp 4K image.

Because this is a short throw lens you will likely start getting artifacts past 120" so adjustments become critical.  

Many people on the forums have found that pre-upsizing the content with a different device produces a better picture than the method used on the projector.

Most projectors have zoom and then some lens shift. You can normally use these to avoid keystone as it reduces resolution and introduces artifacts. This model has a little zoom and NO lens shift— which means,, if you want to avoid keystone you have to be very careful when mounting the projector. In place of optical adjustment BenQ added some pretty extensive digital adjustments. But they DISABLED those digital adjustments in the game mode because it ads to the lag. So it will likely make things tricky to adjust.

Some people want to run game mode all the time so therefore give up some of the rich features for color adjustment that could be done and will have a compromised HDR experience for movies.  They then find that HDR colors don't look true, get banding, rainbow effect and a couple of other issue and find it better/easier to run in SDR mode vs HDR mode. A compromise that works for them in a mixed gaming/theater setup.

But if you set the projector up and calibrate it for a cinema/theater experience you will get more vivid color and a very good HDR experience. Add a device in front of the projector that will do a better job of upscaling and HDR and it's even better for SDR content.

So it's kind of a hybrid device with two different dimensions of what it can do/be used for that will require tuning for use.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
generiq

Yeah, that confirms what I said. It's either HDR or SDR.

There's none of this happening...

9 hours ago, cayars said:

SDR content is upsized to HDR by the projector so with correct settings you would want to feed it HDR.

 

3 hours ago, cayars said:

It's rather weird as it's not a true 4K projector but uses XPR pixel-shift technology . The projector will upsize and do color grading/shifting of 1080p content.

In gaming mode with the default FPS preset used. FPS intentionally reduces gamma to exaggerate dark level detail. This is so it’s easy to pick out opponents that might be hiding in shadows. The result is a washed out image with grey blacks which is good for that type of game but bad for cinema. A different mode set as default can remove this issue.

If you enable SmartEco mode you can actually achieve a darker shade of black which is something many people complain about.

Lowering the gamma does not constitute grading, and definitely is not 'upsizing' to HDR. HDR = size???? Let's not confuse people :) 

'upsizing' is upscaling (pixel interpolation) which is what pixel shifting (XPR) is aiming to do. And SDR, HDR are ranges of light. The one has nothing to do with the other.

From the BenQ site... What is XPR? (note no mention of HDR or color changes).

That site seems to be a good reference for BenQ projectors, though.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Noctural
8 hours ago, cayars said:

I don't own one but have been reading about it. This is what I've gathered.

It's rather weird as it's not a true 4K projector but uses XPR pixel-shift technology . The projector will upsize and do color grading/shifting of 1080p content.

The Tk700STi will always upscale (XPR pixel shift) 1080p content to 4K UNLESS you select game/HDR game picture mode in which case the projector will switch to 1080p output for a 1080p source in order to reduce input lag and not ddo XPR pixel shifting.

In gaming mode with the default FPS preset used. FPS intentionally reduces gamma to exaggerate dark level detail. This is so it’s easy to pick out opponents that might be hiding in shadows. The result is a washed out image with grey blacks which is good for that type of game but bad for cinema. A different mode set as default can remove this issue.

If you enable SmartEco mode you can actually achieve a darker shade of black which is something many people complain about.

At all costs do not enable the game/latency mode 'High' and just keep it on 'Low'.

Critical focus is a must for 4K sharpness but most people don't adjust this properly using something like a spotting scope for absolute focus adjustment. You can feed it a 1080p source and select game mode when focusing. This will force the projector back in HD mode and makes it a bit easier to focus around individual pixels (the pixel shift can make finding the edges of individual pixels more difficult). If you have a sharp 1080p image you’ll have a sharp 4K image.

Because this is a short throw lens you will likely start getting artifacts past 120" so adjustments become critical.  

Many people on the forums have found that pre-upsizing the content with a different device produces a better picture than the method used on the projector.

Most projectors have zoom and then some lens shift. You can normally use these to avoid keystone as it reduces resolution and introduces artifacts. This model has a little zoom and NO lens shift— which means,, if you want to avoid keystone you have to be very careful when mounting the projector. In place of optical adjustment BenQ added some pretty extensive digital adjustments. But they DISABLED those digital adjustments in the game mode because it ads to the lag. So it will likely make things tricky to adjust.

Some people want to run game mode all the time so therefore give up some of the rich features for color adjustment that could be done and will have a compromised HDR experience for movies.  They then find that HDR colors don't look true, get banding, rainbow effect and a couple of other issue and find it better/easier to run in SDR mode vs HDR mode. A compromise that works for them in a mixed gaming/theater setup.

But if you set the projector up and calibrate it for a cinema/theater experience you will get more vivid color and a very good HDR experience. Add a device in front of the projector that will do a better job of upscaling and HDR and it's even better for SDR content.

So it's kind of a hybrid device with two different dimensions of what it can do/be used for that will require tuning for use.

Thanks a lot for your research on my problem.

Impressive, I've learnd a lot.

I'll try different settings and come back with the results !

I can try to take some picture to show the difference between mode. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...