What kind of box to run Emby on? Seems like all NAS's having problems

[Bingie 99]

Hi all,

I've been looking thru all the server forums here, and noticed that every NAS vendor is having problems, from crashes to updates breaking things, etc.  That's not very inspiring.

I'm starting to think maybe it would be safer to just get a plain windows tower pc w/ lots of bays for holding drives internally.  Would be cheaper too, NAS's seem overpriced for what the spec's, compared to a vanilla pc.  I assume there is driver support to make windows drives hot swappable, then just install a removable tray in each bay.  I'll have to investigate this.

Also, with a pc, you have available card slots to install things like a tuner card, a high-end GPU, and anything else you might want bundled in an all-in-one box.

Anyone else thought about this?

 

[Deathsquirrel 745]

I recommend using NAS for storage only.  I run Emby on a PC separate from my synology NAS.  Technically the synology could be a half-assed Emby server but I prefer my media serving be a whole-assed operation

[Bingie 99]

That's an interesting idea, I like the way you think.  Just put the NAS off a 2nd nic from the pc, to isolate lan traffic.  A crossover cable would suffice.

[Carlo 4561]

24 minutes ago, Bingyyyy said:

Hi all,

I've been looking thru all the server forums here, and noticed that every NAS vendor is having problems, from crashes to updates breaking things, etc.  That's not very inspiring.

I'm starting to think maybe it would be safer to just get a plain windows tower pc w/ lots of bays for holding drives internally.  Would be cheaper too, NAS's seem overpriced for what the spec's, compared to a vanilla pc.  I assume there is driver support to make windows drives hot swappable, then just install a removable tray in each bay.  I'll have to investigate this.

Also, with a pc, you have available card slots to install things like a tuner card, a high-end GPU, and anything else you might want bundled in an all-in-one box.

Anyone else thought about this?

 

I have no issues with any of my NAS boxes from WD or Synology but I don't put them on the Internet either unless it's a single port, just as I would do for any program running on Windows.

Windows of course is vulnerable to virus and malware so it's not really any safer than anything else with a CPU in it. It also likes to reboot itself when doing updates (if you don't adjust this). 
I'm not sure I'd agree a PC is cheaper than a NAS and certainly isn't when it comes to daily electric costs. A NAS can be tucked away, out of site as it doesn't need a monitor, keyboard, mouse or other interface so that can be a plus for some people.

With that said I still run Emby on Windows Server (and I'm not worried about electric costs) as I think it's the most flexible environment and because it's the predominate Emby package for running beta or test versions.  I can drop in my GPU of choice.  No doubt a PC can be a lot more flexible!

One of the plusses I think for the average user of using a NAS is the built in drive protection with parity which you typically don't get with Windows and you likely don't want to use windows for this as it kind of sucks at this for our video purposes and isn't very flexible.

NAS and PCs are different beasts with some overlap in what they can do. Emby Server is one of those programs that is happy working in either environment so pick your poison. LOL

[roaku 842]

I like Emby on my Synology just fine.

It's certainly quieter and cheaper to run than a PC.

It's also true that I've set up my library and clients so that the Synology is absolutely never asked to transcode video because it can't do that without tears.

It has no issues remuxing audio for video on the fly though.

I also have test instances on Ubuntu, Freebsd and Windows 10. Synology actually has the easiest install process of those, in my opinion, once you track down the right package for your model, anyway.

Edited July 2, 2021 by roaku

[Bingie 99]

Now that I think about it, for home use, "hot swappable" isn't at all necessary.  If a drive fails, I'll turn the box off, grab my screwdriver, and swap out the drive (after receiving a replacement in the mail).  Done that a gazillion times over the decades.  What's one more.

I do like the idea of off-loading the raid functionality to a NAS, and just use it as a file server.  I pre-transcode all files anyways, so I don't care about that functionality.

Don't really care about live tv either, unless there is a disaster, it's all commercials anyways.  A few minutes browsing the web gets my news fix.  The rest I'll stream.

I am an old school GNU Linux head, Debian naturally, but for most vendors, Linux is an after thought, if at all.  Windows is a safe bet.  Just don't run anything else on it.

So, a stand-alone NAS, and a stand-alone mini-pc running windoze and Emby.  If Emby on Debian is stable, I'll consider doing that.  Then just ssh to it for monitoring and updates.

[clarkss12 304]

I HATE NAS's............  Getting old, and NAS's are getting too complicated for my simple little brain.  I have 2 Synology and one WD NAS's, gave up on them, and just use one as my Security camera NVR backup, the other two are disconnected and collecting dust.

I prefer, something simple, like external hard drives connected to a miniPC that uses very little power.  

[arrbee99 1815]

On the other hand I got a Fractal tower with I think 8 HDDs and two SSDs, plus two built-in bluray players for 'acquiring' content, plus a TV tuner for watching TV and recording more content. Plus external HDDs for backup plus Backblaze. And Windows.

[Bingie 99]

Okay I just checked out the Debian section: 6 year old thread, and people manually installing packages to fix dependencies.  I'd give Emby on Linux a big fat NO.  Scratch that idea.

Windoze it is.

[roaku 842]

19 minutes ago, Bingyyyy said:

Okay I just checked out the Debian section: 6 year old thread, and people manually installing packages to fix dependencies.  I'd give Emby on Linux a big fat NO.  Scratch that idea.

Windoze it is.

If you just want to use Windows, that's fine, but installing on Debian is not difficult.

[Bingie 99]

Thanks, but installation on Linux is the easy part.  I'm more concerned with full functionality, stability, and most importantly: dependencies breaking from updates, like the problems people are having running Emby on a NAS, then features break from updates.  If Emby is developed on Windows first, then ported to other platforms, it's probably safer to just stick with Windows.  One less thing to worry about.  Same with offloading RAID to a NAS.  Trying to keep it simple.  Path of least resistance, and so forth.

 

 

[Q-Droid 989]

Emby is fine on Linux if you know the basics. Many (ok most) of the problems people have with it are self-inflicted.

The big thing for me is that you can't upgrade a NAS box incrementally and you can have the same problems with Windows. My Emby server is the same installation that started on an Athlon x2 then a Phenom x4 and now an i3-8100. So yeah, from AMD to Intel on the same OS, drives and software. Swapped motherboards and recently a new case and added RAM. Try that with a NAS box or even Windows.

Regarding power consumption the price difference between a NAS box equivalent to my server would need about ten years of power consumption to make up for the difference.

 

[Bingie 99]

1 minute ago, Q-Droid said:

Regarding power consumption the price difference between a NAS box equivalent to my server would need about ten years of power consumption to make up for the difference.

Same thinking here, I'm having trouble justifying the cost of a NAS.  Is hot-swap really necessary?  Up to the second backup?  Not for home use.  If my home entertainment goes down, for whatever reason, turn off the tv's, put on the sneakers and go for a walk.  Can always fix it later.

I'm thinking a really cheap mini pc running windows, and attach an external drive via usb 3.0, is more than sufficient for home use.  Turn off transcoding.  Keep it simple.

For example, here is a $99 mini-pc running windows (install Emby on it):

https://www.amazon.com/Computer-Bluetooth-Desktop-Windows-Ethernet/dp/B08PV885KT/ref=sr_1_18?dchild=1&keywords=mini+pc&qid=1625262655&s=electronics&sr=1-18

and add an external drive connected via usb 3.0, gives 6Gb/s performance, good enough for home use.

For backups, maybe another usb drive would be fine, no it's not mirrored, doesn't need to be, just have it copy all changed files at 3am, good enough.

I'm new here, and new to home entertainment systems, so forgive me as I go through the entire thought process of evaluating options.  I'm sure all of you went thru the exact same thing I'm doing now

Cheers

 

[Carlo 4561]

21 minutes ago, Bingyyyy said:

Thanks, but installation on Linux is the easy part.  I'm more concerned with full functionality, stability, and most importantly: dependencies breaking from updates, like the problems people are having running Emby on a NAS, then features break from updates. 

What are these problems you keep mentioning?

[Bingie 99]

Huh?  Broken dependencies aren't a problem?  Maybe I read the wrong thread.  My bad.

[Carlo 4561]

13 minutes ago, Bingyyyy said:

For example, here is a $99 mini-pc running windows (install Emby on it):

https://www.amazon.com/Computer-Bluetooth-Desktop-Windows-Ethernet/dp/B08PV885KT/ref=sr_1_18?dchild=1&keywords=mini+pc&qid=1625262655&s=electronics&sr=1-18

and add an external drive connected via usb 3.0, gives 6Gb/s performance, good enough for home use.

Just keep in mind it's an Atom processor so it likely about as fast as your Android Phone depending on model.  A good phone will be about 2 times more powerful just not with all the ports.

It would be ok however for serving up content for your home only (no transcoding) if you don't use Live TV which can require transcoding. Might still be ok for Live TV as well (haven't tried it).  You could install it next to your TV and use a Bluetooth mouse/keyboard for a slick setup as well and not require a PC monitor.

Pretty good price when you consider it comes with Windows!

Even if you out grew it later, you could turn it into a makeshift NAS with a couple of drives plugged into it.

[Bingie 99]

9 minutes ago, cayars said:

What are these problems you keep mentioning?

Oh, sorry, I see your point now, I'm referring to the multitude of posts in the various NAS server forum sections here, about different people mentioning problems they have running Emby on their NAS, from crashes, to stopped functionality, etc.  If I actually read all of those threads, I'm sure most problems are probably self inflicted, but it does bring up a good point, that each NAS uses a proprietary operating system, and each time you change the operating system, you introduce possible problems.  That's what I was referring to "problems" that I'd rather avoid.  It's not a slight on Emby at all, it's just pointing out that proprietary OS's on NAS's aren't all they are cracked up to be.  Safer to just run Emby on Windows.  That was my thinking.  Sorry if I wasn't clear.

[Bingie 99]

2 minutes ago, cayars said:

Even if you out grew it later, you could turn it into a makeshift NAS with a couple of drives plugged into it.

That was my thinking as well.  It's cheap, but still useful for other purposes.

[Q-Droid 989]

Unless you want to be hamstrung right off the bat I recommend starting with a fairly recent Intel CPU with iGPU, like 8th gen and newer. Even low-end and low-power ones like Pentium and Celeron have UHD graphics which can handle transcoding.

 

[Bingie 99]

1 minute ago, Q-Droid said:

Unless you want to be hamstrung right off the bat I recommend starting with a fairly recent Intel CPU with iGPU, like 8th gen and newer. Even low-end and low-power ones like Pentium and Celeron have UHD graphics which can handle transcoding.

 

I'm looking at those now.  I agree.  Leaning in that direction.

[pwhodges 2012]

3 hours ago, cayars said:

A NAS can be tucked away, out of site as it doesn't need a monitor, keyboard, mouse or other interface so that can be a plus for some people.

My Windows-based streaming box is tucked away out of sight (in the attic) with no monitor, keyboard, or mouse.  It is not notably vulnerable to viruses and the like because I ensure that only appropriate access to it is possible.

Paul

[Carlo 4561]

1 hour ago, pwhodges said:

My Windows-based streaming box is tucked away out of sight (in the attic) with no monitor, keyboard, or mouse.  It is not notably vulnerable to viruses and the like because I ensure that only appropriate access to it is possible.

Paul

That's really the key to any "server" platform.  Don't use it as a daily driver where you're constantly using the machine for different purposes.  Don't use the browser on them unless absolutely needed but instead download elsewhere and move files across the network after scanning, etc.

A little prudence goes a long way in keeping things running smoothly and rather "locked down" from problems. 

[Bingie 99]

Okay, this $184 mini-pc looks good:

https://www.amazon.com/AWOW-Desktop-Computer-Extended-Ethernet/dp/B087MB58VR/ref=psdc_13896591011_t3_B082MPZ839?th=1

Reading the reviews, very positive, and people installing both Ubuntu and Linux Mint on it, no problems.  Might get one of these, take out the windows SSD, pop in a fresh SSD, and install Linux on it.  I like Linux Mint, they do a fine job.  After it's all done, disable the GUI and just run it headless.

Very tempting............ more money DOH!

[Carlo 4561]

That's the same processor that runs my Synology 920+.

If you pick this up and want to play a bit before installing Linux Mint on it try XPEnology on it.
That could be quite interesting.

This is a much better buy then the ATOM based unit mentioned earlier by far and worth the difference in price.

[Q-Droid 989]

That last box might be 2x the money but the overall experience and longevity would be much more than 2x.