Emby what happens when Jellyfin becomes just as good if not better ?

[Vittatus 6]

2 hours ago, softworkz said:

Volviendo a la pregunta original (ligeramente reformulada):

P: ¿Alcanzará JF a Emby en los próximos años?

R: ¡No, no lo harán!

 

Para explicarlo, veamos algunas cifras ( fuente )

 

1. Ya estaban un año detrás de Emby justo cuando comenzaron
   : se puede ver la brecha entre 2018 y 2019. Esto existe porque Emby había cambiado a código cerrado a finales de 2017 y ya no trabajamos en el código público.
   Cuando se bifurcaron, el código que obtuvieron ya estaba un año por detrás de la base de código real de Emby.
    
2. Colaboradores y recuentos
   de confirmaciones La mayor cantidad de confirmaciones en su código sigue siendo de Luke. Hizo 13.5k commits. Hubo al menos 500 confirmaciones de otros antes de que se bifurcaran, por lo que son 14k confirmaciones en el momento de la bifurcación. Mientras tanto, están en 26k commits, lo que significa que han agregado 12k commits. Pero están usando un flujo de trabajo diferente: todo pasa por solicitudes de extracción, mientras que las confirmaciones de Luke se realizaron directamente en el repositorio. Al usar solicitudes de incorporación de cambios, siempre se agrega una confirmación de combinación adicional. Las medias de las 12k confirmaciones fueron solo 6k confirmaciones reales.
   Los totales:
   • Emby hizo 14k commits en 5 años (2.8k/año)
   • JF hizo 6k commits en 7 años (0.85k/año)
     => El progreso de Emby es 3 veces la velocidad de JF
     Sí, eso se mide en comparación con la fase inicial de Emby Server. Lo usé, porque puedes verificar esas cifras, ya que son todas públicas
     (también las comparé con cifras del mismo lapso de tiempo y todavía éramos más de 2 veces más rápidos desde la bifurcación)
      
3. Tendencia de la actividad
   Basta con mirar el diagrama a lo largo de los años. Ha habido mucha actividad al principio, pero desde 2021 la actividad está disminuyendo constantemente y se redujo mucho en 2023 y 2024.
   Las figuras de Emby son muy diferentes y muestran un trabajo constante:
   
    
4. Archivos de código del servidor
   • JF: 1.726 archivos CS
   • Emby: 3.749 archivos
     CS (las partes ya desarrolladas de TVnext añadirán otros archivos CS de 1k pronto)

 

Conclusión

Ninguna de esas métricas por sí sola es un indicador perfecto, pero cuando se ve en conjunto y con el promedio durante períodos tan largos, la evaluación es muy clara:

JS está muy por detrás de Emby y la distancia aumenta constantemente. Por supuesto, pueden desarrollar una aplicación cliente específica. Sin embargo, eso no significa nada.
Hemos desarrollado más de una docena de aplicaciones cliente y algunas de las suyas siguen siendo esencialmente las antiguas, todas las cuales hemos desarrollado y evolucionado aún más, lo que no hicieron ("todas"), solo una u otra sola, eso es todo.

Así que la respuesta a la pregunta es muy clara: ¡No se pondrán al día pronto, porque llevan años de retraso!

 

PD: Eso no significa que no puedan hacer una u otra cosa mejor que Emby. Eso es fácil y siempre es posible, y puede haber muchas razones por las que Emby no lo tiene, o simplemente aún no lo tiene o lo hace de manera diferente. Pero unas pocas cerezas no hacen un árbol.

It's not about whether Emby will have more features in the future, but whether those features will justify paying $240 a year vs. $0 a year.

When Jellyfin integrates the new Android player and improves the interface to adapt to 2024, what will you be able to offer to justify $240? Do you think people will pay that amount of money for something to do it better? Maybe 1 or 2 people will pay for it because they want the best, just like many people stay with Plex, but 99% of people won't because they have a free option that works just as well. For home use, it doesn't need to be a work of engineering.

Plex has a completely different model since it's free and you only pay if you want premium features, and you can unlock them with a single lifetime payment. It has no device limit and its apps are very advanced in development.

Everyone is moving towards this model now, TrueNAS, video games, social media, a thousand free apps with unlocking of premium features or improved support...

Who says people won't develop paid plugins for Jellyfin and make money? It already happens with WordPress and a thousand other apps... When you have the full source code, the possibilities for adding new paid features are endless, and many people are interested in them.

Edited June 30, 2024 by Vittatus

[pwhodges 2012]

14 minutes ago, Vittatus said:

It's not about whether Emby will have more features in the future, but whether those features will justify paying $240 a year vs. $0 a year.

Right now, you have a choice, as does everyone; and as always different people will have specific priorities leading to the choice they make.  All you're doing is complaining that there isn't a fourth choice: Emby, but free or at least much cheaper.  Tough - but your choice between the available options remains unconstrained.

Paul

Edited June 30, 2024 by pwhodges

[Vittatus 6]

19 minutes ago, pwhodges said:

Right now, you have a choice, as does everyone; and as always different people will have specific priorities leading to the choice they make.  All you're doing is complaining that there isn't a fourth choice: Emby, but free or at least much cheaper.  Tough - but your choice between the available options remains unconstrained.

Paul

I have the Emby lifetime license, as I said before, so you made up the free thing...

The Android TV app used to be unlocked with a single payment and did not count towards the device limit. Now you're changing your mind and what was already unlocked now costs money and is within the limit...

I don't care what direction you take, I think I've already amortized or almost what I paid for the lifetime license, so from now on it's up to you to see if this model is worth it, which another funding group has already told you people won't pay more for and it's not right to pay for something and then take it away by adding a completely different app and on top of that less adapted for devices with remote control.

It's not my company, just a customer, in the end it's me and many others who keep you alive. If you have funding problems, it's because the model is not right and people don't want to pay for the service.

There are features that have been waiting for over 4 years to come soon but never arrive.

We'll talk in a year or two,

[BillOatman 596]

14 hours ago, BillOatman said:

I always thought that any licensing fees should be on the encoding, not the decoding.  But I am not a lawyer.  I have never even played one on TV.

 

13 hours ago, softworkz said:

No. The patent holders wouldn't earn much this way, because then it would concentrate on a few service providers doing the encoding. Of course they want to benefit from every single TV, computer or other device, and those usually don't do encoding.

The fees for using a patented technology are usually called "royalties". What might come on top is "license cost" for the software which does the encoding and/or decoding, unless you do your own implementation or use an open-source (or free) implementation.

 

Yeah but policing the fewer encoders is far easier and they are less likely to try and cheat.  So charge them more and let them pass that cost to their clients.  A company I worked for went to that model for their product and it ended up saving them lots of enforcement money (enforcers and lawyers) and even more headaches.  But either way they get their $$$ I suppose.

[BillOatman 596]

13 hours ago, Vittatus said:

The growing buzz around Jellyfin suggests that it's rapidly catching up to Emby and is poised to surpass it in the near future.

I don't know about that statement. JF started at a old Emby codebase.  But it has evolved along its own path since then.  It has features like watch together/party and I think they have comskip capability built in which Emby does not yet.  But on the other hand the UI is less elegant and client support is still in its infancy in a lot of ways. 

That being said they are open source so there is always the possibility of very rapid ... or slow ...  improvement..  And free can make some customers overlook shortcomings.  IMO competition is always good. And in my particular case I currently use Emby, but I have JF running so my kids can use the watch party capability as they do not live close to each other and enjoy doing that.  Will it stay that way, only time will tell.

Edited June 30, 2024 by BillOatman

[Spaceboy 2573]

7 hours ago, softworkz said:

(the already developed parts of TVnext will add another 1k CS files soon)

the most important part of this whole thread. soon is good

[scb99 245]

On 27/06/2024 at 22:54, yocker said:

It's possible but as with how Jellyfin is structured it might be hard to enforce anything. Any agency might just be able to force Jellyfin to remove something but it will be back soon cause of it's open sauce.

That's not a bad thing necessarily, to many things are no longer yours even when you paid for them. Just look at Apple and Microsoft products. IMO.

If they wanted, Dolby could force JF off Github.

[softworkz 5066]

5 minutes ago, scb99 said:

If they wanted, Dolby could force JF off Github.

No. Publishing code implementing a patented procedure is not illegal per se. For codecs like H.264, H.265 and successors, there even exist reference implementations provided by the respective working groups. Patent owners can demand royalties to be paid when used in a product, but they cannot demand takedown of code which is implementing such patented procedures.

[scb99 245]

4 minutes ago, softworkz said:

No. Publishing code implementing a patented procedure is not illegal per se. For codecs like H.264, H.265 and successors, there even exist reference implementations provided by the respective working groups. Patent owners can demand royalties to be paid when used in a product, but they cannot demand takedown of code which is implementing such patented procedures.

That happened to someone else I know, I don‘t know the details but it seems to be possible

[softworkz 5066]

Just now, scb99 said:

That happened to someone else I know, I don‘t know the details but it seems to be possible

They take down code which is targeted to do illegal things like copyright violations, cracking, hacking, circumventing copy protection and stuff like that.
But code that is implementing a patented algorithm is a very different thing.

[scb99 245]

1 minute ago, softworkz said:

They take down code which is targeted to do illegal things like copyright violations, cracking, hacking, circumventing copy protection and stuff like that.
But code that is implementing a patented algorithm is a very different thing.

Ok then you are right sorry

[softworkz 5066]

When you have a groundbreaking invention, you have generally two ways to deal with it:

• You can try to keep it secret
  • And hope nobody else will figure it out
  • But if someone does, they can do the same without restriction
• You register a patent for it but then
  • Your invention gets fully published
  • You can charge royalties
    but there are rules and conditions you need to adhere to
  • For example, it must be non-discriminatory, all patent licensors need to be treated equally
  • Means, you have no control who uses your patent - you cannot allow it to party A and forbid party B to use it
  • And also, the knowledge about your patent is public and so you cannot demand that information about it or derivative/related works to be taken down. The copyright holder for the code is owned by the developer who wrote the code.

The only case where they could request a take down is when it would be their own code (e.g. like when it was stolen and illegally published on GH)

(Regarding the non-discriminatory part, I'm not sure whether it's the same in the US)

Edited July 1, 2024 by softworkz