Pulling Sort Order from metadata

[Neonblue 3]

So far this app stomps on Plex with one thing that I need to resolve.  And that is pulling the "sort title" from the metadata.

I have numerous movies like star wars 1-9, solo, and rogue that are sorted into their specific viewing order and others like James Bond which I have all James Bond movies grouped together using the sort title.  I would like to pull this from metadata, not the file name.

How is this done?

[Luke 42077]

Hi, that's what we already do, by default. We create the sort title using the display title in emby.

If you want to set a specific sort title, you can do that using the emby metadata editor. Please let us know if this helps. thanks.

[Carlo 4560]

Hi, This would normally be something you would edit for those special series/collections you want sorted a different way.
Have you tried to edit these values yourself?

You just named I think the two most popular sets I think people edit the sort order on.
https://support.emby.media/support/solutions/articles/44001848783-metadata-manager

[Neonblue 3]

Plex read the embedded metadata and used the sort title first, if it didn't find the sort title it used the regular title.  All of my movies have the full metadata including the sort title.

Attached is what it looks like in metax:

I don't want to manually edit this within the app. If I lose the server, the drive, etc... then I'd have to not only re-install; I'd have to re-edit all of the metadata to get it back to where it was.

 

So it sorts on the sort field, but the display title stays the same in the app.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Neonblue

[rbjtech 5284]

55 minutes ago, Neonblue said:

So it sorts on the sort field, but the display title stays the same in the app.

Correct - it sorts using the Sort metadata, but displays using the real Name metadata.

I'm confused why you would want it any other way - displaying 'Star Wars 3.5' is not useful to anyone ?

Ensure your 'collection' metadata is set to use the 'Sort' name - and all should be good - there is no need to modify any media metadata as you have already done that.

 

Edited May 26, 2021 by rbjtech

[Carlo 4560]

@Luke This sort field is picked up by ffprobe but isn't imported in 4.6.1

[Luke 42077]

We've never done that as it's meant to be something user defined. That's not to say that we can't but we currently do not.

[Neonblue 3]

2 hours ago, rbjtech said:

Correct - it sorts using the Sort metadata, but displays using the real Name metadata.

I'm confused why you would want it any other way - displaying 'Star Wars 3.5' is not useful to anyone ?

Ensure your 'collection' metadata is set to use the 'Sort' name - and all should be good - there is no need to modify any media metadata as you have already done that.

 

I think you're misunderstanding...

I have the sort title set, but Emby is not picking it up.  It's sorting based on the actual name, not the sort title.  I do want the original title to be displayed.

I see the "sort title" as part of their metadata editing, but it should be picking this up in the movie metadata since it's already there.

[Neonblue 3]

7 minutes ago, Luke said:

We've never done that as it's meant to be something user defined. That's not to say that we can't but we currently do not.

So you're saying it's not a current feature...?

[Carlo 4560]

What Luke is saying is that we have never read this directly from the file as it was originally meant to be a web field.

1 minute ago, Neonblue said:

So you're saying it's not a current feature...?

Reading it from the file is what is not currently supported.

I would suggest you make this a Feature Request here
https://emby.media/community/index.php?/forum/98-feature-requests/

[ebr 16169]

2 minutes ago, cayars said:

What Luke is saying is that we have never read this directly from the file as it was originally meant to be a web field.

Reading it from the file is what is not currently supported.

I would suggest you make this a Feature Request here
https://emby.media/community/index.php?/forum/98-feature-requests/

Do feel free to create a FR but I will say that a change like this can be very dangerous for us because we have no idea what may be in that field in people's existing metadata.  So, even though it may be technically "correct" to read it, the effects for people when we start doing that could be very unwanted. 

[Luke 42077]

Since we already have the option to prefer embedded titles, I think we can just go ahead and do this when that option is active. Can you provide a sample video for testing? Thanks.

 

[Neonblue 3]

5 minutes ago, Luke said:

Since we already have the option to prefer embedded titles, I think we can just go ahead and do this when that option is active. Can you provide a sample video for testing? Thanks.

 

I sure can, but what exactly do you want see?  I'll make a video of whatever you want to see.  As far as I can tell right now, this is the only feature coming from Plex that they have over you. Everything else works as good or better than Plex (especially the playlists).

[Luke 42077]

I want to be able to test it myself.

[Carlo 4560]

 

1459890434_Scoob!(2020).mkv

[Carlo 4560]

Both of these are just trailers with the sort field added.
The small screen shots are from ffprobe -i

1445341329_TheHitmansBodyguard(2017).mkv

[rbjtech 5284]

1 hour ago, Neonblue said:

I think you're misunderstanding...

I have the sort title set, but Emby is not picking it up.  It's sorting based on the actual name, not the sort title.  I do want the original title to be displayed.

I see the "sort title" as part of their metadata editing, but it should be picking this up in the movie metadata since it's already there.

Emby does not pick up any 'embedded' metadata unless you specify that in the library settings.

So if this change was made - all the other embedded metadata would be used instead of the derived/downloaded 'emby' data.  ie title, video and audio codec, subtitle names etc etc. 

Is that what you are requesting - because I agree with @ebr that it would be extremely dangerous to start 'picking' embedded data and using it as 'non-embedded' data - it's either one or the other, we cannot mix both.     As an example of this - I have manually set 'Sort Title' titles today, I do not want them overwritten by embedded 'sort titles' inherited from the files..

[Neonblue 3]

2 minutes ago, rbjtech said:

Emby does not pick up any 'embedded' metadata unless you specify that in the library settings.

So if this change was made - all the other embedded metadata would be used instead of the derived/downloaded 'emby' data.  ie title, video and audio codec, subtitle names etc etc. 

Is that what you are requesting - because I agree with @ebr that it would be extremely dangerous to start 'picking' embedded data and using it as 'non-embedded' data - it's either one or the other, we cannot mix both.     As an example of this - I have manually set 'Sort Title' titles today, I do not want them overwritten by embedded 'sort titles' inherited from the files..

Very much disagree with that.

You lose a server, drive or move to a new server it then becomes a major manual task to reset everything back up.  If you store it in Metadata on the file it will pick it right up on the new config / server and will work as predicted.  This is how it's used in plex and I've never seen anyone complain about it; ever.

[Luke 42077]

Quote

Emby does not pick up any 'embedded' metadata unless you specify that in the library settings.

That's not true. For the most part we pick up quite a bit of embedded metadata. It's just certain things that are off by default such as the title because most users would prefer to start with the file name.

[rbjtech 5284]

2 minutes ago, Neonblue said:

Very much disagree with that.

You lose a server, drive or move to a new server it then becomes a major manual task to reset everything back up.  If you store it in Metadata on the file it will pick it right up on the new config / server and will work as predicted.  This is how it's used in plex and I've never seen anyone complain about it; ever.

The nfo file stored with the media is used to restore everything instantly - I rebuild servers frequently - I've never relied on the embedded data.

[Neonblue 3]

nfo again is a one off; it's not standard.  Everyone else keys off of embedded data.  I use multiple apps to work with the files I have.  I would have to make two configurations (one in the metadata and another in the nfo files)  if I were to continue with emby (which I really like).  It's best to stick to standards (I'm a developer as well).

[rbjtech 5284]

7 minutes ago, Luke said:

That's not true. For the most part we pick up quite a bit of embedded metadata. It's just certain things that are off by default such as the title because most users would prefer to start with the file name.

Yep - bad wording on my part - I meant emby does not display the native/embedded metadata unless you tell it too.

Edited May 26, 2021 by rbjtech

[Neonblue 3]

The way I envision this working is the manual way works if the embedded doesn't exist.  Plex had that as well; I think they started that way then jumped into embedded metadata after they found that the sort title existed.  You could go in and manually edit the metadata overriding what was in the file.  But importing brought in the existing metadata.  

One other important note, the metadata didn't update the app unless you forced it to update.  So there would be no impact on existing configurations.

[Neonblue 3]

(I'll shoot a movie of this later today of how this works in plex after I get through some customer calls)

[rbjtech 5284]

23 minutes ago, Neonblue said:

nfo again is a one off; it's not standard.  Everyone else keys off of embedded data.  I use multiple apps to work with the files I have.  I would have to make two configurations (one in the metadata and another in the nfo files)  if I were to continue with emby (which I really like).  It's best to stick to standards (I'm a developer as well).

nfo not a standard ? - err.. ok .. ever heard of Kodi ?

Emby has zero rights to modify my media files (nor do I ever want it to) - thus how do you propose to keep the modified metadata ?  Yes I can do this with multiple tools of course but this need to be manageable within emby.

Thus, the only option of importing the 'sort' title is during the initial scan - where it can probably populate the emby 'sort title' it natively has (if it's empty).  This is stored in the emby dB and/or NFO file to make it portable.    But any modification to it would not (should not) update the embedded metadata. 

 

Edited May 26, 2021 by rbjtech