Web app to show all albuns for a given artist

[EduardoSantos 40]

I've seem numerous changes on the way Emby will show an artist work, both when the artist is the AlbumArtist or when it is just a TrackArtist.
Currently, web interface presents on the artist page:

A "Albums" carrousel containing thumbs for all albums where that artist is AlbumArtist. This carrousel has a "View all" link on the right side which leads to a new page were the carrousel content is fully presented.

A "Appears on" carrousel containg thumbs for all albums where that artis is a TrackArtist. This carrousel has no "View all" link on the right side.

It would be very nice to:
- have a "view all" link on the "Appears on" section
- have a means to view all albuns of a given artist no matter if it was the AlbumArtist or TrackArtist. I know Emby once have that and it would be very much of use.

[Luke 42078]

Hi, for appears on, have you checked with an artist that appears on a large number of albums?

[Happy2Play 9780]

4 hours ago, EduardoSantos said:

- have a "view all" link on the "Appears on" section

Basically that just make two links almost side by side as almost all title headers are links.

But beta server has see all that has gotten a lot of complaints.  Both a clickable links.

[Luke 42078]

The header text doesn't really need to be clickable anymore. I just haven't gotten to changing that yet.

[Happy2Play 9780]

3 minutes ago, Luke said:

The header text doesn't really need to be clickable anymore. I just haven't gotten to changing that yet.

Personally I would rather keep the title header clickable as the "see all" everywhere to me creates clutter and does not look good.

[Luke 42078]

It's just not easily discoverable and then many users are never aware that it can be clicked. So that's what see all solves.

[PenkethBoy 2068]

i agree - see all is a waste of space

just keep the header clickable and remove the see all

[PenkethBoy 2068]

yes it is and has been for a very long time

many users that dont post on the forums - so where are these users coming from?

[Spaceboy 2573]

also not a fan of the See All buttons

[Carlo 4561]

1 hour ago, PenkethBoy said:

yes it is and has been for a very long time

many users that dont post on the forums - so where are these users coming from?

I don't like the SEE ALL links either for what it's worth but to answer your question.

Emails, Trouble Tickets, online stores reviews, social media, etc..

[PenkethBoy 2068]

Sorry not very convincing

there is no Support(trouble) Ticket system as this forum is provided for that

bots reply to the online stores - encouraging people to post on this forum

etc

so doubt if they are actually a thing

[Luke 42078]

6 minutes ago, PenkethBoy said:

Sorry not very convincing

there is no Support(trouble) Ticket system as this forum is provided for that

bots reply to the online stores - encouraging people to post on this forum

etc

so doubt if they are actually a thing

All of those things have a person responding to them. They are very real. No bots. The ticketing system he mentioned is an internal one that we have that all of those other things funnel into so that we can see them all in one place.

[PenkethBoy 2068]

Maybe rather than the canned couple of responses to every post on e.g. google play - might be better to change it up a bit - as it makes it look like a bot has responded

[Spaceboy 2573]

would you be able to provide an example of one of these users that wasnt aware that the headers were clickable and which lead to the See All buttons being added. Just one. any one you like. should be easy for you to link us to the twitter post or the app store review

[Spaceboy 2573]

i'm guessing you're finding it difficult to decide, what with there being so many to choose from?

[Carlo 4561]

16 hours ago, PenkethBoy said:

Maybe rather than the canned couple of responses to every post on e.g. google play - might be better to change it up a bit - as it makes it look like a bot has responded

The point behind the way we use reviews is to read each and every review so we learn what people are saying. We learn if a new build has issues we haven't seen here in the forums, etc. Issues often show up in the stores before the forums! We read the reviews every couple of days and watch them multiple times a day with new releases. Every few days we reply to the messages which gives us a 2nd chance to review them again in case we've learned something (with new releases).

A review with a response is a review that's been guaranteed to be read by us.  It gives the person a chance to download and use the app, then a few days after the review they'll receive an email from our response to their review.

Our message is crafted to thank people for trying us as well as for their support AND to inform them of our support forums which they likely don't know about.  Each and every response get's emailed to the person.  The store review section IS NOT where we do support but is where we often learn quickly of issues or things people don't like or have trouble with.  These are often new people to Emby so the readback we read is gold to us. With only 250 total chars to work with there isn't much more we can fit.

In any case how and why they are used is an internal process and not open for debate in the forums.
To borrow a line from Forrest Gump "That's all I've got to say about that."

[Spaceboy 2573]

8 hours ago, cayars said:

The point behind the way we use reviews is to read each and every review so we learn what people are saying. We learn if a new build has issues we haven't seen here in the forums, etc. Issues often show up in the stores before the forums! We read the reviews every couple of days and watch them multiple times a day with new releases. Every few days we reply to the messages which gives us a 2nd chance to review them again in case we've learned something (with new releases).

A review with a response is a review that's been guaranteed to be read by us.  It gives the person a chance to download and use the app, then a few days after the review they'll receive an email from our response to their review.

Our message is crafted to thank people for trying us as well as for their support AND to inform them of our support forums which they likely don't know about.  Each and every response get's emailed to the person.  The store review section IS NOT where we do support but is where we often learn quickly of issues or things people don't like or have trouble with.  These are often new people to Emby so the readback we read is gold to us. With only 250 total chars to work with there isn't much more we can fit.

In any case how and why they are used is an internal process and not open for debate in the forums.
To borrow a line from Forrest Gump "That's all I've got to say about that."

so the answer to the question is you don't have evidence of a single piece of feedback that has led to these changes then? simple yes or no answer will do. no essays required. max word length - one

[Carlo 4561]

6 hours ago, Spaceboy said:

so the answer to the question is you don't have evidence of a single piece of feedback that has led to these changes then? simple yes or no answer will do. no essays required. max word length - one

 

15 hours ago, cayars said:

In any case how and why they are used is an internal process and not open for debate in the forums.
To borrow a line from Forrest Gump "That's all I've got to say about that."

I'm not sure why you think a company needs to justify why it makes changes to a product. Emby has no restrictions on how it innovates features and not sure why you think this can only be user driven.  If you don't like said added feature, comment on it and maybe give a suggestion.

I don't like this "see all" showing up all over either personally and would like an option to turn it off or see it handled differently.

My personal suggestion would be to show a hint icon where the "see all" is now. Click the hint and "read how a title can be clicked to show all" and have the option to stop showing the hint!  Hints could be used for many different things which would educate users but could be excused/removed once you know the hint so you don't see it again.

Doing something like that would help new users and only be a small bother to experienced user who can dismiss it.

Hints like this are already starting to be experimented with in other apps so to me this would be a logical way to use them but we need to be able to excuse them so the hint doesn't become the new problem.

Edited January 24, 2021 by cayars

[Spaceboy 2573]

1 hour ago, cayars said:

 

I'm not sure why you think a company needs to justify why it makes changes to a product. Emby has no restrictions on how it innovates features and not sure why you think this can only be user driven.  If you don't like said added feature, comment on it and maybe give a suggestion.

I don't like this "show all" showing up all over either personally and would like an option to turn it off or see it handled differently.

My personal suggestion would be to show a hint icon where the "show all" is now. Click the hint and "read how a title can be clicked to show all" and have the option to stop showing the hint!  Hints could be used for many different things which would educate users but could be excused/removed once you know the hint so you don't see it again.

Doing something like that would help new users and only be a small bother to experienced user who can dismiss it.

Hints like this are already starting to be experimented with in other apps so to me this would be a logical way to use them but we need to be able to excuse them so the hint doesn't become the new problem.

you said it was user driven

On 22/01/2021 at 21:48, cayars said:

I don't like the SEE ALL links either for what it's worth but to answer your question.

Emails, Trouble Tickets, online stores reviews, social media, etc..

we know thats which is why you were asked to backup your statement.

you and the dev's would get more respect if you just owned your design decisions (however bad they are) rather than blaming them on some sort of ephemeral user feedback

[Carlo 4561]

9 minutes ago, Spaceboy said:

you said it was user driven

Did I?

Luke said:

On 1/22/2021 at 3:11 PM, Luke said:

It's just not easily discoverable and then many users are never aware that it can be clicked. So that's what see all solves.

I answered a question from

On 1/22/2021 at 3:12 PM, PenkethBoy said:

many users that dont post on the forums - so where are these users coming from?

with

On 1/22/2021 at 4:48 PM, cayars said:

Emails, Trouble Tickets, online stores reviews, social media, etc..

Meaning, the team gets feedback from many different sources and not just the forums.

[PenkethBoy 2068]

Wow this message you are trying to give is well confused and contradictory - "you" as in Emby - like the royal "we" which you also use a lot when you are not a dev.

We get statements that a change was in response to a user issue as justification - even though that justification is ephemeral - so in my book thats user driven - but in the last year the vast majority of suggestions from users on this forum - fall on deaf ears or maybe get a canned response which 99/9% is meaningless as its a fob off. The whole secret development path narrative is bantha poodoo as well - kind of tired of the Mushroom Management by the devs as well - especially when other media server apps are adding new features that emby has failed to deliver on for month if not years.

When a new feature is implemented - its usually half baked, done in a rush and when the devs get feedback - they run away and dont respond for days even weeks hoping the noise will go away (you do respond but as you are not a dev so you cant address the issue fully) - so feedback is not that important or they would respond and engage more with meaningful responses not the usual whiny justification for their choices for the feature rather than listening to the users who are doing their beta testing for them - which saves them a lot of time and money but appears they dont care that much or give it the respect it deserves - so it appears from the outside that its some arbitrary choice to add x or y - with poor management of the process (always been a major emby failing) and the - ooh look shiny new thing to add over there distracts the devs - and most features that have been added in the last few months, if not longer, have never been finished off to the majority of users satisfaction/acceptance.

There are three updates/new features - that will start bun fights when they hit stable - because we are not being listen to! - the continue watching mess, music update, collections and all the other changes associated with collections of which there are many - none of them are finished and all have issues to a greater or lesser extent. The devs say they have options or adjustments planned - but as usual no details - because Secret Squirrel time! Additionally there are no notes/info for the users on how to use these new features (even for the beta testers) - what the changes are and what the issues the user my encounter and why - and Lukes blog posts are not the answer as its just a list of one liners and a few pictures - dont even cover the basic changes in any detail - its all feel the force time as its supposed to be easy and intuitive - its not either of those things and sorry but the knowledge base is not the answer either.

We also have two new things coming in tone mapping and livetv to look forward too - dont hold out much hope for these either to be honest as LiveTV has started and stopped three time at least and the beta rollouts have been on hold for over a month waiting for Tone Mapping - which for those not aware of this raises the frustration level with the deafening silence from the devs or a fob off answer - rather than engaging as it would save them time in the long run.

Oh and the point about "I'm not sure why you think a company needs to justify why it makes changes to a product" - is simply answered - we are the paying customers and also the testers who use their own free time to help out - so yes we do have a say and are justified in questioning those decisions - especially with the Mushroom Management applied to Emby - the devs can disagree and want to go in another direction - but justify it - dont hide in the shadows ignoring people's concerns or ideas on how to make it better - by not doing so you are degrading the users respect and value of your product.

 

 

[Spaceboy 2573]

 

1 hour ago, cayars said:

Meaning, the team gets feedback from many different sources and not just the forums.

right... but you do see from your own post above that PenkethBoy was asking where the users came from that were not aware that the headers could be clicked and when you answered that with "Emails, Trouble Tickets, online stores reviews, social media" and yet are unable to substantiate that it brings into question both your own, Luke's and Emby's credibility. sometimes you would do well to stop digging, put down the shovel and acknowledge the truth.

some things at emby are just made up on the whim of the dev's. thats ok, but own it

[sooty234 266]

Carlo riding in on his donkey again *facepalm*

Do you emby guys see the resentment building? It isn't just me....

[Carlo 4561]

@Spaceboyyou would need to ask Luke, not me.  I was just answering a question where we get feedback when it's not from the forums.

@PenkethBoy I don't agree with much of what you said. People here seem to think a user must request something for it to be added to the system or justified.  That's just nonsense as Emby can do whatever it wants for what ever reason it sees fit with justification. The team is always trying to improve things. Some things don't always work out as planned and sometimes get reverted or changed based on feedback and that too is listening to users.

The fact you say things go unheard is just a ludicrous thing to say as nearly 1.5 years of Emby Server releases have been literally nothing but taking care of user feedback.

I don't agree on the half baked features comment at all and surely would not include this continue/next up in that as this IS NOT RELEASED. To me Emby is pretty full featured as a whole and I find very few things that really need major improvement due to being half baked.  Closest thing I can think about is conversions/syncing UI which Luke has said will be addressed.

Again personal opinion but Music is already released in Beta and isn't causing major problems but has improved a lot and makes diagnosing music issues much easier for us and users. Continue/Next up is not released so the jury is out on that but can understand frustration with it as is right now.  I disagree with your comment on the new collections build as that solves a lot of problems people have with collections especially getting rid of them being file based and most of all permissions and control so users can't change them without permission. The collection release as you are aware is still in private testing.

I do agree with your posts on release note and some other things that could most certainly be improved.  I too get frustrated with delays on things like Tone Mapping and Live TV and I want both of them yesterday myself.  But at the same time I appreciate the time and effort being put into these to get them correct from the start so they will work well for us after release and solve long time issues people have had that these releases should resolve.

You are a customer and tester of course but when you buy a new car do you get feedback on how it's built?  How about the way your groceries are made or packaged? Of course not but you can always choose a different product that is better or closer to what you want.  Emby on the other hand does use a lot of feedback from users but also get's to innovate on it's own as well.  They must be doing something right as it's a powerful platform that just keeps getting better and better all the time.

@sooty234 We just look at a lot of things differently.  "Glass half empty vs glass half full" comes to mind to describe the same things seen.  Neither is right or wrong, just different personal views that don't have to alway be used as a put down or made personal because you/I don't agree. 

[pwhodges 2012]

1 hour ago, cayars said:

Again personal opinion but Music is already released in Beta and isn't causing major problems but has improved a lot

Currently unusable for me, for over a month now - but let that pass...

Paul