Specials and extras in a TV library

[sooty234 266]

How do you separate the extras from specials in a TV library? I had this sorta working, previously. The library would show two sperate folders/covers with different videos in them. Looking at how I set it up, the server appears to no longer allow this. There are videos that are not part of a season, and there are the specials that are interspersed into the seasons. None of this seems to work anymore. I want the non-special videos to be separate and not included with any season, like the specials for movie. And then I want the specials also in their own folder that I watch only if I choose to. Instead, what I get are the specials in the wrong place and are appearing as the 'next up', seasons ahead of where they should be. I don't want the specials to be in the 'next up' at all. No matter how name the them, arrange them, or anything I do, they get merged into one, ordered in the wrong place, don't show up at all, and/or get stuffed in the 'next up'. Literally nothing works as I want it, or just doesn't work at all. The wiki is of absolutely no help, no variation works. I have the sense that it isn't possible, and I have to remove them all and put them in a miscellaneous library.

[crusher11 1101]

Your sense that it isn't possible is correct.

 

[sooty234 266]

37 minutes ago, crusher11 said:

Your sense that it isn't possible is correct.

 

Is what I thought. How crap is that?!?! Such a basic thing, too. The present system can't even put the specials in the right place... bah!

[pwhodges 2012]

It is possible if you are prepared to break away from the naming rules and use folder names which Emby doesn't understand - and also accept that the result may be broken in future updates:

The order remains with Seasons at the end, because Emby recognises "Season" and does that with it; replacing the word "Season" might also be possible, but you'd probably lose season-specific metadata - I haven't tried that, though.

Similarly it is possible to put episodes in the "wrong" season folders if the numbering on TVDB is completely nonsensical,  In this example, half the series is put into specials by TVDB and most of the rest is combined in seasons as broadcast, when naming the separate stories makes more sense:

Paul

Edited January 4, 2021 by pwhodges

[Carlo 4561]

Hi guys,  If the knowledge base gives an example of how this should work but doesn't can you elaborate on this please?
Chances are if it was documented and not working we need to look at this.

Specific examples would be quite helpful for testing.

Thanks

[sooty234 266]

Thanks for that Paul, but as you're saying, we pretty much have break it and hope that emby doesn't 'fix' something then the break is more broken. Using kentucky windage to achieve something that should be basic convention, is ridiculous. All libraries should support adding a basic folder. Instead, it usurps everything. 

Edited January 4, 2021 by sooty234

[sooty234 266]

11 minutes ago, cayars said:

Hi guys,  If the knowledge base gives an example of how this should work 

No it doesn't, because emby doesn't support it.

[Carlo 4561]

Examples needed to know what's not working correctly.

Edited January 4, 2021 by cayars

[Carlo 4561]

2 minutes ago, sooty234 said:

No it doesn't, because emby doesn't support it.

Oh that's different then, sorry.

Best to open a feature request to try and get the added functionality you want.

[sooty234 266]

Ha! A feature request for something that is foundational... That's like removing oxygen from the atmosphere because we can ingest it by drinking water. Emby has a pattern of doing things like this. Always overthinking.

[Carlo 4561]

It's not foundational or it would be in Emby already.

If somethings not broke and you want additional functionality in Emby (regardless of reason) then the traditional way to do this is via feature request.  Nothing special is being asked except to create a feature request and describe the functionality.

[sooty234 266]

It is absolutely a foundation. Adding a folder with files to any directory should always be read as it is, and then you build on top of that. But here it's been completely discarded. And if it's default representation is anything other than that, that should always be able to be reverted. Not giving us the ability to have our media be shown in the way of our chosing is plain hideous. This should be how ALL libraries should be. This nonsense of if we want it to be shown this way that we have to use a different library type is nauseating. So now among hundreds of shows, I have to create a different library for a handful of shows?!?!? Insanity!

[Carlo 4561]

Emby does not process/use every file in folders and never has.  It used the files/types listed in knowledge base and ignores others ON PURPOSE to avoid messes.  Those are the foundation files or media files that Emby CURRENTLY support. This can be changed by request if it makes sense to do so.

You can certainly have an opinion what you consider "foundation" but it's kind of meaningless is what I'm getting at as Emby looks for specific files which is it's foundation and has worked very well.  Could it be better? Of course but we need to know exactly what needs to be added as a starting point.

Emby does already support extras for TV Shows:
https://support.emby.media/support/solutions/articles/44001159110-tv-naming
https://support.emby.media/support/solutions/articles/44001904299-ordering-tv-show-special-extras

We we need to know is what else you would like it to do to make it work better for you (in a request so it can be tracked).

Edited January 5, 2021 by cayars

[sooty234 266]

Nope, you're wrong. It is foundational. And TV libraries don't work, and apparently it's broken by design. So a feature request isn't required. Just fix it!

[ebr 16177]

2 hours ago, sooty234 said:

Adding a folder with files to any directory should always be read as it is, and then you build on top of that.

That statement contradicts itself.  Are we to read them exactly as they are or are we to apply some sort of intelligence to it and allow better organization within the product?

We aren't a simple file browser.  There are other products for that.  In order for us to do all of the things we do with things like TV shows, we have to be sure we understand exactly what everything is and only ingest items that make sense for what the product provides.

The basic issue here appears to be that you feel there should be a difference between a "special" and an "extra" for TV shows.  Emby has never understood any such distinction so that is not something we currently support.

It is possible it could be supported in the future but it would be a new "feature" of the system so a FR is warranted (although, I seem to think there may already be one...).

[Carlo 4561]

@sooty234 Can you take a read of this request and see if this has you covered or if you want something different:

 

[pwhodges 2012]

3 hours ago, cayars said:

Emby does already support extras for TV Shows:

Sure it does.  And it renames them "Specials" (see my example above); and it merges them with other specials.  If you want to separate Specials and Extras (maybe separating out special episodes, commentary videos, and things like clean openings) Emby won't let you unless you get imaginative with folder naming, which works because at present it just shows you folders it doesn't recognise - at least we should be thankful that it doesn't supress them.

Paul

[sooty234 266]

1 hour ago, pwhodges said:

Sure it does.  And it renames them "Specials" (see my example above); and it merges them with other specials.  If you want to separate Specials and Extras (maybe separating out special episodes, commentary videos, and things like clean openings) Emby won't let you unless you get imaginative with folder naming, which works because at present it just shows you folders it doesn't recognise - at least we should be thankful that it doesn't supress them.

Paul

Exactly! Thank you, Paul. 

And actually in some configurations I tested, some files did disappear. They weren't anywhere.  The whole thing is a shambles.

[sooty234 266]

4 hours ago, ebr said:

That statement contradicts itself.  Are we to read them exactly as they are or are we to apply some sort of intelligence to it and allow better organization within the product?

We aren't a simple file browser.  There are other products for that.  In order for us to do all of the things we do with things like TV shows, we have to be sure we understand exactly what everything is and only ingest items that make sense for what the product provides.

The basic issue here appears to be that you feel there should be a difference between a "special" and an "extra" for TV shows.  Emby has never understood any such distinction so that is not something we currently support.

It is possible it could be supported in the future but it would be a new "feature" of the system so a FR is warranted (although, I seem to think there may already be one...).

You shouldn't negate basic elements just because that's not what you want. The ability to have independent folders with independent videos should never be negated. That's ludicrous. 

[Carlo 4561]

I have mine display inline with the seasons and not just in specials. They have to match up with meta-data from a provider.

Edited January 5, 2021 by cayars

[sooty234 266]

7 minutes ago, cayars said:

I have mine display inline with the seasons and not just in specials. They have to match up with meta-data from a provider.

Well that sucks for you.

[Carlo 4561]

Why does it suck?  Here's an example of a special inline from West Wing (2nd item) and an "inline" special I added to the front myself:

[sooty234 266]

2 hours ago, cayars said:

Why does it suck?  Here's an example of a special inline from West Wing (2nd item) and an "inline" special I added to the front myself:

Yuck! 

But it seems you don't understand the issue.

This is insanity. The ideology is asinine. The result is infuriating.

[Carlo 4561]

I understand you want extended functionality beyond what Emby delivers right now but haven't opened a feature request for it.

I'm not in any way saying I disagree with what you want, but it needs to be a feature request to gain traction. This isn't my rule, it's the way Emby handles these types of additions and the process that's in place for everyone.  No matter how much whining or complaining the process is the same, open a feature request for new functionality beyond what is currently delivered in the product. Just talking about it here doesn't move the bar as this is new functionality you want regardless if it should have been there from day 1. I thought your idea has merit and should be explored and expanded on, hence why I suggested the FR.

I did link a similar/same request earlier.  Have you read it?  Is it the same as what you want or different?

The feature request mechanism allows others to contribute positive or negative.  Not all changes are good for everyone regardless of how trivial they appear and the FR threads allow these types of things to get sorted out as well as see how many people are interested in said feature.  Without a thread in the requests section of the forum it's basically one request and likely will never get done as it won't be on the dev radar.

So please check out the previously linked thread and add to it or if it's not the same as what you would like to see open a new thread and maybe add a link to it in the other thread as it's at least related (if not the same). How to progress with this is it's own conversation to work out how episodes not in metadata providers are handled for example.

You're more than welcome to think the present system is insane or infuriating but contribute in the correct section to get the functionality changed.  You're a smart guy and none of us overlook things you mention or say.  Let's just have the conversation in the correct spot and try and move the bar to add functionality that make Emby even better.  Personally I'm in general agreement I think with what you want but would like to read more about the changes you would like in the proper place where it will be looked at for additions to the product.

We look forward to reading about changes you would like to see and what others think as well. Emby right now is going through many changes to core functionality to strengthen the product and add features to existing functionality and libraries, so right now is a great time for a FR like this.

Edited January 5, 2021 by cayars

[ebr 16177]

12 hours ago, sooty234 said:

You shouldn't negate basic elements just because that's not what you want. The ability to have independent folders with independent videos should never be negated. That's ludicrous. 

I'm sorry but, as I said before, we are not a straight file browser.  We look at physical structure and then interpret logical relationships from that.  If all we ever did was spit out physical structure then the entire product would be a lot simpler (and a lot less useful).

Its possible we can support what you want in the future but the product does not do it right now.  That is the bottom line.