Transcoding doesn't show correct transcoding reason

[Painkiller88 249]

Hi,

 

I recorgnized, that the transcoding/remuxing reason seems not to be the real reason.

I have a Samsung Q90R (2019) and we all know this model is not able to direct play DTS.

My Movie actually has a DTS-HD-MA sound codec and it is just telling me "Direct Stream" AFAIK this means it is just changing the Container, but DTS isn't a container.

I also recorgnized this a few times it tells me the same "Direct Stream" on MKV Files and some other MKV Files are Direct Play.

So in my opinion there can just be a problem with the transcoding infos/reasons.

Maybe someone can explain this to me, could be i missed a thing.

 

thanks

Edited November 30, 2020 by Painkiller8818

[roaku 842]

https://support.emby.media/support/solutions/articles/44001920144-direct-play-vs-direct-streaming-vs-transcoding

Quote

 

Direct Stream:

Also known as transmuxing. The Media file is altered in real-time while being delivered to the client. This happens when the video codec is correct but something else needs converting like the streaming type (package), audio or subtitle track.

In this case the server extracts the video track from the file as well as other tracks it can use. Emby may convert the audio or subtitle tracks on the fly during a Direct Stream.

Direct Streaming does not touch the video tracks in anyway so there is no loss of video quality. Direct Streaming is not very CPU intensive.

 

 

[Luke 42078]

18 hours ago, Painkiller8818 said:

Hi,

 

I recorgnized, that the transcoding/remuxing reason seems not to be the real reason.

I have a Samsung Q90R (2019) and we all know this model is not able to direct play DTS.

My Movie actually has a DTS-HD-MA sound codec and it is just telling me "Direct Stream" AFAIK this means it is just changing the Container, but DTS isn't a container.

I also recorgnized this a few times it tells me the same "Direct Stream" on MKV Files and some other MKV Files are Direct Play.

So in my opinion there can just be a problem with the transcoding infos/reasons.

Maybe someone can explain this to me, could be i missed a thing.

 

thanks

Hi there, can we please look at an example? Thanks.

[Painkiller88 249]

Format                                   : Matroska
Format version                           : Version 4
File size                                : 2.67 GiB
Duration                                 : 1 h 31 min
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 4 183 kb/s
Movie name                               : Underworld: Blood Wars
Encoded date                             : UTC 2019-09-10 20:00:29
Writing application                      : HandBrake 1.2.2 2019022300
Writing library                          : Lavf58.20.100
ErrorDetectionType                       : Per level 1

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main@L4@Main
Codec ID                                 : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC
Duration                                 : 1 h 31 min
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : DTS XLL
Format/Info                              : Digital Theater Systems
Commercial name                          : DTS-HD Master Audio
Codec ID                                 : A_DTS
Duration                                 : 1 h 31 min
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel layout                           : C L R Ls Rs LFE
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 93.750 FPS (512 SPF)
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossless
Title                                    : Surround
Language                                 : German
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No

Text #1
ID                                       : 3
Format                                   : PGS
Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                            : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Duration                                 : 1 h 31 min
Language                                 : German
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

Text #2
ID                                       : 4
Format                                   : PGS
Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                            : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Duration                                 : 1 h 31 min
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

This File only has a DTS-HD Codec, so for my understanding it must transcode because this TV is not able to play DTS.

[Happy2Play 9780]

And if you click the info button what does it say?

[Painkiller88 249]

10 minutes ago, Happy2Play said:

And if you click the info button what does it say?

It tells me it supports all codecs (h264, ac3 etc...) but the container is incompatible. Don't remember the correct words but i can make a screenshot and translate if you need the exact phrase

[Carlo 4561]

Hi, Yes please.  Also if possible a screenshot/translation from stats for nerds on the client as well.

[neik 873]

Imo the file is being remuxed to the not supported audio (DTS HD -> AC3).

But, only the logs can tell the truth though...

[Painkiller88 249]

On 12/3/2020 at 5:49 PM, cayars said:

Hi, Yes please.  Also if possible a screenshot/translation from stats for nerds on the client as well.

Here are the screenshots

The Text in Direct streams means the medium is compatible with all codecs (h264, ac3 etc.) but has an incompatible container.

In the nerds stats you can see, the original audio stream has been converted to AC3, so this is not a container and it should be transcoding. AC3 or DTS is not a container it is an audio codec and if it isn't supported like here on my tv, this message is wrong imo

[pünktchen 1409]

This discussion exists for a very long time. The Emby devs have choosen "Direct Stream" instead of "Transcoding" because many former Plex users were moaning about transcoding when it's not necessary. They did't understand that it's only the audio codec that is converted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[speechles 2055]

It should say "Remux" as that is what is occur.

DirectStream = both video and audio are copied
Remux = video is copied and audio is converted

Both DirectPlay and Transcode are already understood. The app lacks the "Remux" play method for display in stats for nerds?

The Emby Roku app will display: DirectPlay, DirectStream, Remux, or Transcode

Edited December 5, 2020 by speechles

[pünktchen 1409]

5 minutes ago, speechles said:

It should say "Remux" as that is what is occur.

This is also wrong. "Remux" is copying video and audio to the same or other container. It should be "Transcode Audio", "Transcode Video" and "Transcode Video and Audio" or just "Transcode" when it's a full convert.

[speechles 2055]

36 minutes ago, pünktchen said:

This is also wrong. "Remux" is copying video and audio to the same or other container. It should be "Transcode Audio", "Transcode Video" and "Transcode Video and Audio" or just "Transcode" when it's a full convert.

This conversation comes up every now and again. The app is missing the "Remux" play method when converting audio. That is all. There is no need to do anything else.

Edited December 5, 2020 by speechles

[Carlo 4561]

33 minutes ago, pünktchen said:

This is also wrong. "Remux" is copying video and audio to the same or other container. It should be "Transcode Audio", "Transcode Video" and "Transcode Video and Audio" or just "Transcode" when it's a full convert.

That's how I personally have always felt as well.  Remux is really ONLY a container switch (outside of Emby land) with stream copies of the content.  The misuse of these terms has always been a sore spot for many people and always causes confusion for people who know what they are/should be.

It doesn't help and ads to the confusion when the apps use different terminology from each other as well.

[speechles 2055]

The server has always called a Remux when audio is converted and video is copied. Always has. A direct stream is always when both are copied the audio and video stream.

This isn't about misuse. This is about "Remux" being missing which would have avoided this entire thread. Because it says "Direct Stream" and container change it throws off the fella. If it had said "Remux" and audio is being converted the fella would've been happy

"Remux Audio" = provide a new audio stream compatible with the device. Do you want the "Remux" to say "Remux Audio" instead? That is a better use.

Adding "Transcoding" to anything implies weakness. This is why it isn't applied when converting audio. That isn't a weakness. Transcoding is applied when video is converted because that is a weakness.

It is hard to change it when it has been that way for so long. You confuse people when you change it who already understood it the way it was. That is why the problem is just with remux audio. Lets just fix that one part to be what we want. Any suggestions?

Edited December 5, 2020 by speechles

[Carlo 4561]

13 minutes ago, speechles said:

The server has always called a Remux when audio is converted and video is copied. Always has. A direct stream is always when both are copied the audio and video stream.

I don't think that is correct at all.

[pünktchen 1409]

13 minutes ago, speechles said:

Do you want the "Remux" to say "Remux Audio" instead?

That would be better, but is still wrong. Because "Remux" means copying, but Emby is always altering the audio with a loss of quality, no matter if the user can hear the difference. That is a transcode!

17 minutes ago, speechles said:

You confuse people when you change it who already understood it the way it was.

No, it would only confuse older users if the new terms are not clear about what is happening. But new users will get what they are used to everywhere else in the web.

[Carlo 4561]

The server has always used Direct Play, Direct Stream and Transcoding but not Remux.

Direct Play can be either directly from the file system or streamed but the file is untouched.
Direct Stream has always been a change in some fashion to either the container, audio, but not the video.
Transcoding has always meant the video was being converted.

TECHNICALLY:

Direct Play is correct
Direct Stream should be a container only switch but not video or audio conversion.  This is the streaming equivalent to a file remux.
Transcoding is when any stream is modified/converted regardless if it's a sub, audio or video stream

It would have always been better to have:
  Transcoding Video
  Transcoding Audio
  Transcoding Sub

Of course there are combinations of what could be converted such as all three or only Video  & Subs.  I've always wanted something more like:

"Transcoding VS" or "Transcoding VA"  so you can see exactly what is transcoded.

Edited December 5, 2020 by cayars

[speechles 2055]

But then when you add "Transcode" to all those reasons that before said "Remux:" or "DirectStream" people assume Emby is broken. It is hard to fix because it has been this way for a substantial amount of time. That is why as a compromise I suggest we change it to "DirectStream" or "Remux Audio" and in that way you do not upset users already used to the way it is. It has been this way for a long, long, long time and to change it will either please or upset users. How many are pleased versus upset? It is hard to have any upset. That is why change is hard. It must be a coordinated effort among all the apps to do this. An effort to keep it all consistent.

[speechles 2055]

5 minutes ago, cayars said:

The server has always used Direct Play, Direct Stream and Transcoding but not Remux.

Incorrect. When stats for nerds was developed for the Roku app it followed what the server did at the time implicitly. If the server recently changed that behavior and dropped Remux I was never given the memo.

I still say only use "Transcoding" when video is converted. Avoid that word for audio.

Use "Converting Audio" instead to create a disparity of use: Transcoding is bad, Converting is OK.

So users know that audio is simple to transcode. video is hard. Users do not know this. They see transcoding and march in here to demand why. You see it all the time.

Edited December 5, 2020 by speechles

[Carlo 4561]

I'm talking about what is shown on the server, not on any clients.  I don't think I've ever seen "Remux" shown directly on the server in the web admin.

I could be wrong of course but don't remember ever seeing anything other than Play, Streaming and Transcoding.  If I'm wrong I need to change the KB.

[speechles 2055]

Only change the KB if we agree. We need all apps and the web server to agree. Then we all follow the leader. The web app is the leader.

[ebr 16183]

8 minutes ago, cayars said:

I don't think I've ever seen "Remux" shown directly on the server in the web admin.

Correct.  However, the log it creates is named "Remux".

Unfortunately "transcode" is a dirty word to people - even though it shouldn't be.  The perception is that anything being transcoded is bad when, in fact, it is one of the reasons they run a media server system in the first place.

 

[sooty234 266]

Remultiplexing happens any time there is a change to the file, even when transcoding. The file is demultiplexed, the video/audio is transcoded, then the file is remultiplexed. So for me, I think that something like remux - (t)audio would be good to add.

[Painkiller88 249]

can't we get a more detailed overview in the next update?

Actually we can only click on info and see ether direct play, direct stream and transcoding, but we never see what exactly is happening.

It doesn't matter if it is transcoding, reencoding, remux, or what else if we have a more detailed overview in the next version.

This is what we can see in plex or tautully, maybe you can take this as an idea, i think this makes much more easier to the people and it doesn't matter how it is called.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Painkiller8818