How NOT to monetise your software: Constructive criticism inside.

[randomevents 38]

So that this criticism isn't instantly dismissed, I'm a 42 year old commercial software development manager of 18 years. 

.......

 

Two types of server - Free and $50

 

You've been in software for 18 years and you think that a personal media server software should only cost $50? That's insane. Not that long ago, a single version would have easily priced at what the lifetime is now and still required add on costs for apps and semi obligatory upgrades.

[slikvik 2]

You've been in software for 18 years and you think that a personal media server software should only cost $50? That's insane. Not that long ago, a single version would have easily priced at what the lifetime is now and still required add on costs for apps and semi obligatory upgrades.

 

I never said it was a lifetime price.

[ebr 16172]

Interesting so if Amazon Fire app was updated to be able to search more than 20 items, then it would be a 3rd party effort?

 

I don't understand that conclusion (please see the matrix I pointed to above) but, also, as a point of clarification, the Fire TV app does not limit search results to 20 items.

 

It returns up to 50 items of each type (people, movies, tv, etc) with a potential total result set of up to 300 items.

[dee1 3]

I don't understand that conclusion (please see the matrix I pointed to above) but, also, as a point of clarification, the Fire TV app does not limit search results to 20 items.

 

It returns up to 50 items of each type (people, movies, tv, etc) with a potential total result set of up to 300 items.

I'm going to go in and unlock the app.. pay today.

See what happens..

I want it to work

Right now

[dee1 3]

I don't understand that conclusion (please see the matrix I pointed to above) but, also, as a point of clarification, the Fire TV app does not limit search results to 20 items.

 

It returns up to 50 items of each type (people, movies, tv, etc) with a potential total result set of up to 300 items.

How do you get 300, in the delta before the first post timestamp and this I did the app unlock, got 50.

$5 won't break me, I never asked for the $ back though it was decent to make the offer as 2 weeks is thin on setup.

I'd leave silicon dust and run the PVR if I could but candidly, their software works

I have the guide and 6 tuners quattro and old 2.

But the huge difference between your system and kodi is the search.

Ideally you would clear cache on launching the app, that is where Kodi falls down, cache management and the fact that Amazon really doesn't support it

But still it is the most robust of the options for people who have cut cord for years

 

You wondering if as this larger trend continues 50 be enough??

Think anyone get a quattro for XMAS?

wonder if USB tuners will get cheaper?

 

zap2xml -z -u whatever1@yahoo.com -p SomePassword1 -o bal.xml -i icons -c bal -U -I

zap2xml -z -u whatever2@yahoo.com -p SomePassword2 -o phi.xml -i icons -c phi -U -I

del xmltv.xml

xmltv.exe tv_merge -i phi.xml -m bal.xml -o xmltv.xml

 

It was the lack of seaching that I found to be the issue with your product other platforms simply more robust.

The simple NFO and all the additional work of genres, types, etc.. I look into the what is recorded in Silicon dust, no issues.. just saying

I want to watch TV and not manage it.

How many genres or baseball are there? Seinfeld? 50?  well that's 10 cents a result.

 

What limit did Amazon give you when they have 41K searchable in free prime?

Edited December 7, 2017 by dee1

[ebr 16172]

How do you get 300, in the delta before the first post timestamp and this I did the app unlock, got 50.

 

It returns up to 50 items of each type (people, movies, tv, etc) with a potential total result set of up to 300 items.

 

There are six possible types resulting in a possible max result of 300.

[dee1 3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Walking_Dead_episodes

we are up to 107 episodes of walking dead.

when I type DEA into kodi I get them all

When in your app not 1/2 and if there is any.. any other shows etc..

 

Nice product just pointing out the search is near useless 

Again no additional configuration required, no metadata, no slow library rebuilds..

just returns "everything" with dea or short for dead and then I scroll down and select what I want.

 

It is so ridiculous in respect to anyone who has a large library as to be simply the primary reason to skip the product.

If your media collection is less than 300 it's wonderful.

[ebr 16172]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Walking_Dead_episodes

we are up to 107 episodes of walking dead.

when I type DEA into kodi I get them all

When in your app not 1/2 and if there is any.. any other shows etc..

 

Nice product just pointing out the search is near useless 

Again no additional configuration required, no metadata, no slow library rebuilds..

just returns "everything" with dea or short for dead and then I scroll down and select what I want.

 

It is so ridiculous in respect to anyone who has a large library as to be simply the primary reason to skip the product.

If your media collection is less than 300 it's wonderful.

 

Can I ask why search is your primary method of navigation?

 

I think that is quite rare and we have much better methods (Next Up, Latest, etc.) for most cases.

[Blueeyiz702 223]

They Did Not Build Rome in A Day,just saying.

[dee1 3]

Can I ask why search is your primary method of navigation?

 

I think that is quite rare and we have much better methods (Next Up, Latest, etc.) for most cases.

 

Well actually it is sort of tied to the whole concept of convenience, again type in dead in IMDB and then TV shows.  What you have is a rigid search that google proved long ago wasn't how people wanted to find their information.  More succinctly you put a limit in it.  A better question is why did you limit the search to 50 as I have pointed out there is over 100 shows in walking dead series alone, you seem tone deaf to that limit.   I just tried the silk browser on Amazon Fire and true enough after making the mods I did I get back the entire library.  

 

C:\Users\emby\AppData\Roaming\Emby-Server\System\dashboard-ui\scripts\librarybrowser.js

 

Change the two "return 100" lines to 500.  

 

 

 

Find a file called searchresults.js

Within that file look for an expression 

enableScrollX()?24:16

 

change to 

enableScrollX()?480:16

 

It's another case really of being better off buying better hardware instead of trying to get incomplete software to work.

 

(Updated 2017,Backlit) Rii i8+ 2.4GHz Mini Wireless Keyboard with Touchpad Mouse, LED Backlit, Rechargable Li-ion Battery-Black

 

And then finally, let me ask this question of you: 

Does Kodi have a limit in search results?

Does Silicon Dust have a limit in serach results?

Does Amazon Prime have a limit within their interface on search results?

 

Now let me be succinct, it is by convenience that somebody else breaks it up by season, episode, etc..   But if you have a large library of content why would you imagine having to organize it would be convenient?

 

And finally we humans use our eyes as our primary sense of interaction with the world, I can scroll and look and faster than type around with a handheld interface.

 

So again my assertion stands: your system is wonderful for a collection of 300 titles.  But I have recorded stuff and haven't gotten around to seeing it, some I'll never watch.

 

I see all these people complaining about the search and episodes not working and all of this complexity in your metadata model and I'm looking at the speed of my network, quality of my player, and reflecting that I have been recording content since Windows Media Center days and even they didn't have a limit on search results.  In respect to the summation below, I'd say their assessment

 

Media streaming is Emby’s greatest asset, and for that it includes centralized database management that users can use with straightforward web tools. Emby has 20 apps for Android and iOS mobiles and tablets, game consoles and digital media players, which include Amazon Fire TV, Roku, Android TV and Apple TV. As such, you can bring your media together across a range of hardware. The media streaming also enables you to sync and back up music, video and photos to cloud storage.

 

Is wonderful as long as you want to spend more time fidgeting with libraries instead of simply scrolling to what you want!   Perfect solution for beginners with small libraries ideally below 300.  Users with NAS systems and serious library collections  should avoid the limits due to categorical 50 result cap and pre-established filters that simply might not apply! 

 

http://windowsreport.com/media-center-software-windows/

 

between seinfeld and walking dead alone I kicked past the 300 limit, I have Munsters, Beverly Hillbilly's, some classic stuff, about 160 eagles games, I'd like to go back and find the actual dallas eagles game just knowing it was a dallas eagles game and use my eyes.. 

 

My library is huge, back in the day of ceton and stuff..

I have the night trump won the election.

 

Tell me all about the convenience of the limits other software vendors impose in that article?

 

Emby.Kodi Sync Queue

 

Limit there???  

 

You have to be kidding me in asking why anyone would need more than 50 results

http://www.tvguide.com/search/listings/?keyword=dead

 

At least they don't just stop at 50 at TVGUIDE though the amount returned by JSON fetch is ridiculously low but heh.. they can serve up more ads when you refresh

 

Keeping things simple and convenient.. what a concept

 

But in answer to your question the primary means of navigation is my eyes..  I'd prefer to keep that to left and right keys or up or down

 

You can correct me, but I believe that you are the only one that imposes a limit.

I'm better off with a silk browser 

https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-com-Silk-Browser/dp/B01M35MQV4

 

even US TV now works with silk browser on Amazon "free" where under Kodi it is blocked.

http://watch.ustvnow.com/guide

 

It's all about convenience and your not the one stop shop I hope'd you would be.

If you do fix the search send out an update notice and I'll see it.. But no that doesn't work for me at 50 or 300

Edited December 7, 2017 by dee1

[mtjj 31]

I agree with the OP here, the pricing model for apps is confusing. However I think there's really nothing that the Emby devs can do about this, as stated above they need to work within the constraints of the app store model. This is a pain, but it's not the fault of the devs here.

 

I personally don't like the move to subscription products either, by the time you add up all the various services in today's world charging 5 dollars a month, you can end up with cashflow problems if you're not careful. I prefer to budget for an spend a one off cost as and when I choose. For that reason I bought the lifetime license, which at 120 dollars I consider quite expensive but not unreasonable, given the functionality and ease of use compared to other solutions I've tried.

 

Incidentally although it says "lifetime", if the devs come out with a drastic upgrade that brings *substantial* enhancements and changes, I'd probably be prepared to pay again at some point. But I don't want to pay month by month forever. However, it does seem like that's the way a lot of software is going and some people seem to like it, so I don't object to Emby offering a subscription as long as there is also a one off purchase option.

 

So.... I really just posted this to say that although I agree with the original post, and I think others do too, I think the Emby team do a pretty good job given the software ecosystem they have to work in :-)

[adrianwi 279]

Agree with most of the above, although the devs here could make things clearer and easier to manage at the server end, specifically in terms of the Premiere device limits and which can/cannot use Premiere.  This seems like a no-brainer to me as it would actually generate slightly more income from additional app unlocks.

 

I recently switched from Plex and am still undecided on my approach moving forward.  Initially, I paid for a months Premiere, and extended that for another month as I didn't have time to fully consider things.  I've cancelled it now, so need to decide before the end of the month.  Most of the time the message I get is that my device usage is well within the limits, although I have seen a different message saying its close to the limit.  Not knowing how close or not having control over which devices can use it should be fixed.  

 

I suspect I'll end up with a lifetime subscription (also dislike too many monthly subscriptions) but won't be happy if I get a different message telling me I'm over the limit when I have limited control over it.

[slikvik 2]

It's useful to have these discussions I feel, and is one of the benefits of community focused software. Lots of people don't like a subscription fee unless it's for a hosted service or they're getting something "new" for it each month, regardless of how cheap it is. In Emby's case, the "new" is ongoing development, but that's quite unusual and clearly are harder sell for some: 1) because they might just be happy with the features they have and don't want any extras, and 2) because the amount of development that will be done for that monthly fee is an unknown quantity. JRiver have been doing the versioning model successfully for years and it funds development perfectly well while still giving the customer some choice. This doesn't preclude a more expensive "lifetime license" which I think you probably have right at $129 but I do (still) think that the subs should be replaced with a specific Emby server version at $50-$60 including free Apps or a free, cut-down, server with paid Apps.

 

Other non-hosted applications have funded ongoing development with something like Patreon. The WiiU emulator gets $13000 a month and the PS3 emulator $3000.

 

Anyway, it's all horses for courses as they say.

 

Either way I think the requests to make the website clearer have been called for a long time now with very little changes thus far (until the recent wiki update). It will be interesting to see when the actual consumer driven website gets updated.

Edited December 8, 2017 by slikvik

[dee1 3]

I'm not complaining and put money in.  I wish the product had that last mile of feature and really feel that the product tries to be too broad, the requirements for trans-coding as an example to a Roku not the same requirements for say Amazon Fire TV which is capable of playing MP2 raw from a HDHOMERUN Tuner where that cannot be done on Roku.   By tailoring to that lowest common denominator of Roku there is allot of more capable features not implemented.  My two cents on Kodi.  FireTv doesn't support it, you run it compromised if you do side-load, especially if you stream illegal content, much better to handle the content from a single library and use approved apps with Fire.  Right or wrong cord cutting has eaten into profits of powerful corporations and it is a targeted app though it still is the most refined one available, it just demands allot of resources and is tailored to higher end playing hardware.  Do I shill for Amazon? Nope.. but they do subsidize their hardware cost wise and I do use Prime so I choose them and it runs really stable with Silicon Dust but I think their annual costs for DVR are too high, I can get my own XML thank-you though I do recommend their products.  But I cut the cord to eliminate recurring costs, I don't mind paying for a quality product, will do so.  I'll pay for convenience, I have 6 tuners total as I want to record and watch in the house, if there is a major news event I capture that also and will fire up https://www.lwks.com/

 

If you run roku you love the product probably, but once you understand the technology better you will want to do more and do so securely.

No disrespect intended, not everyone wants the same system.

I'm tying in POE video, but I own my home and have already wired it for ethernet.

But that last mile of integration is the difference.

If my spouse can use it reliably, without errors, without wait let me reboot that, or find this or that.. it worlks

I want to watch and enjoy it not fiddle with it

I'll tell you now that the dumbest thing Microsoft ever did, will be a study at Harvard Business Review is how they killed Media Center and pursued phone instead.. because people USE THEIR EYES..

[jkz59 0]

As usual, the fanboys get defensive and they ignore the point slikvik was trying to make here. I am looking at all the media servers out there trying to determine which one is best for me. Emby's business model just lost me as a possible customer.

 

I installed the Emby server on my Synology NAS and one of my primary requirements is to use Emby as a PVR for OTA broadcasts. Cord cutters like me are looking to get out of paying monthly fees. The lifetime subscription is perhaps a valid option for me but I'm not going to fork out the cash before I can fully test the software. The one month fee would be a reasonable option for testing but I DETEST the predatory practice of forcing me to sign up only on a recurring basis. Yes, you can drop out at any time, but most companies make it a gazillion times harder to drop such a subscription than sign up for it, so this simply turns me off instantly to the product.

 

Anyways, I loaded the server software and set it up. Not bad. Then I loaded the app on Windows 10 to start testing and the first thing I do is try to watch OTA broadcasts. Guess what? I can't. It wants me to subscribe to test this out. Plex, without a subscriptions, still allows you to watch your OTA broadcasts. You only need to purchase the Plex subscription if you want access to the EPG for setting up series recording or recording broadcasts that occur more than 24 hours in the future. This lets me fully test their SW first.

 

Still, I wasn't going to give up. I tried playing some MKV movies and guess what? I get that same BS screen saying I have to pay for that as well. WTF! I have to pay to play media I have. Well BS! I have a ton of apps that let me do that for free already. You are offering me zero value for a fee? It would let me play it for one minute but that is worthless as a test. I need to see how the SW performs when several clients are using it.

 

Now the fanboys are going to say I could test this all out using the web client. If all I wanted to do was play media on my computer that would make sense, sort of. I mean I don't need EMBY to do that, so that's again offering me no value. It's supposed to be a media server, not a media player.

 

What I want to do is test this on my various devices, Fire TV, Apple Tv, NV Shield, iPad, and iPhone before I decide that this software is worth the money. How does the server perform with multiple clients?

 

Needless to say the Emby software has been removed from my PC and NAS. I never even bothered to try it on any other devices since I knew it wouldn't work without me first paying for it. Is the Emby software any good? I don't know. I couldn't test it. It could be the best media server in the world but their business model didn't give me the chance to find out.

 

So go ahead and ignore what slikvik was saying. He was right, and you just lost a customer.