Closed Source? Please explain devs

[BloodyIron 24]

Hi Folks,

 

I've heard that some of Emby has become closed source, and I have some concerns around this.

 

First, I chose Emby over Plex because it respects my privacy more, namely because it's internal-auth only by default.

 

Second, Emby is awesome, the devs are awesome, I pay my sub regularly, no regrets.

 

Third, I support open source and I also loved the Emby business model when I signed on. I saw that you guys bust your ass and aspire to make Emby the best.

 

 

Now, I know it hasn't happened today, but it has been brought to my attention some components of Emby have become closed source. This makes me concerned for the future of Emby because of what I saw happen to Subsonic. They fully closed the source of the product, and people bailed ship, and they stopped listening to their paying clients (and unpaying ones too).

 

I'd love to hear the devs response to:

 

1. Specifically which components have been switched to closed source?
2. Are you going to switch more components to closed source? If so, which ones?
3. Why do you think that closing the source is the only option to solve the forking concerns or other problems?
4. Why was removing the nag screen for not-premium-users not an acceptable option?
5. How can you prove to me that Emby will not turn into a closed-source software title?
6. How can we solve your problems, and in-turn bring those items back to open-source?

 

I know you guys are a business, and I think your price is perfectly reasonable. I also think Emby is the tits. The response from the devs on the forums, the rate of release of features, and so many other reasons also help. Hence, why I pay.

 

That being said, I've been burned by plenty of closed source software in the past, and I'm not putting up with that crap any more.

 

So I would like to hear what you, the devs, have to say. And I'm hoping we can find a better way to serve the concerns you have, and keep you guys in business, while also restoring Emby as a fully open-source piece of software.

 

Let's do this devs. <3

Edited August 21, 2017 by BloodyIron

[ThetaDelta14 0]

I would like a follow up on this. I think it's pretty well known that Emby became popular as the open-source Plex. I, for one, disagree with the fact that it should be free. The devs are putting in a lot of work and should be rewarded for it. However, I will not purchase Emby Premiere until they take a harder stance on privacy and open-source software. If they're pivoting to become more like Plex - which is pivoting to become exactly what it's users were originally trying to avoid...then I don't want to be a part of it. Laws in the US are pretty shaky surrounding media usage - and I'm not even talking about torrents. I think I speak for most users when I say that they want to be confident that the software they're using to transcode movies (legally purchased) will never be able to be used against them. And that includes open-sourcing everything so it can be properly audited. If Emby needs more financial support for development, instead of turning to data collection and closing their source code, add another tier to their subscription. I would gladly spend $500 a year on open-source, secure, and private software that I can use to host my movies, music, books/audiobooks, pictures, etc and to encourage further development and support while staying true to their values. I'm sure there are some other users who will pay $200+ per year to keep development along this nature but if they're unsure of the direction Emby is heading, there is no chance.

[Luke 42077]

Apologies for not responding. We responded to a different topic along the same lines: https://emby.media/community/index.php?/topic/50227-openness-and-continuation

 

We are doing our best to keep the software as open source as we possibly can. We are not closing source in an attempt to become more like anyone else. We have simply been forced to make some reactionary moves based on things that have happened.

[BloodyIron 24]

So what can we do to help meet your needs as a business, and also reverse the closing of the source? I'm sure you folks have explored options already, but I'd like to keep the process going with the goal of bringing them back to open source, but not at the cost of you folks being able to operate as a business.

 

So, what would it take?

 

 

Apologies for not responding. We responded to a different topic along the same lines: https://emby.media/community/index.php?/topic/50227-openness-and-continuation

 

We are doing our best to keep the software as open source as we possibly can. We are not closing source in an attempt to become more like anyone else. We have simply been forced to make some reactionary moves based on things that have happened.

[Luke 42077]

Well the core emby server is open source but for the Emby store apps I really do not know. Once they are open source it does not take very long for someone to take it upon themselves to start distributing unlocked versions.

[Jdiesel 1431]

It would seem that Emby intends to keep the core Server open source. I doubt we will see them make any of the apps OS as they are currently available in the app stores with a individual unlock.

 

Best option would be to create your own OS app and let the community contribute to it. We have already seen a few third party apps surface, some OS and some closed, and more choices is always a good thing.

[ThetaDelta14 0]

Hmmm, I'm going to go ahead and subscribe to Premiere tonight because I understand the position you guys are in and I value your work. But I really hope you guys understand how important it is to be as transparent as possible and that moving towards a private and open source solution is probably what most of your users want. It's not that users don't trust Emby now but if you asked the same about Plex five years ago, it would be a little different today. Get rid of the lifetime sub or add another/more expensive tier to further support development if you have to. I (and others) will gladly support it if we are more confident in the future of Emby. If you've been around the discussions surrounding Plex's fiasco last week, Emby was always mentioned as an alternative but people were quick to shoot it down as being not that much better BECAUSE it lacks transparency and seems to be heading in the direction that Plex is. I believe that it isn't, but I guess there isn't concrete proof that it isn't.

 

Again, purchasing Premiere and thanks for your hard work. But I really hope to see you guys move further away from Plex's privacy policies in the future.

[BloodyIron 24]

What about having an open source/free version, and then having a premium payload option you can buy or something? I know the sub is on the server-end, so maybe there's refinement to my idea here in order, but I have seen music apps on my phone use a similar model. Not entirely sure if this is a good idea or not. Thoughts?

 

See, it's not that I don't want you guys to make money, it's that I want the code to be open sourced so that if your business tanks (in ways that you could not have foreseen or done anything about, like say... a fire), the mantle can be continued. Or so that we can contribute if we so desire, or there's transparency. You know, typical reasons to open source.

 

I sub to Premium, and no regrets. You guys do a fabulous job and I want to ensure that keeps happening!

 

 

Well the core emby server is open source but for the Emby store apps I really do not know. Once they are open source it does not take very long for someone to take it upon themselves to start distributing unlocked versions.

[Luke 42077]

Hmmm, I'm going to go ahead and subscribe to Premiere tonight because I understand the position you guys are in and I value your work. But I really hope you guys understand how important it is to be as transparent as possible and that moving towards a private and open source solution is probably what most of your users want. It's not that users don't trust Emby now but if you asked the same about Plex five years ago, it would be a little different today. Get rid of the lifetime sub or add another/more expensive tier to further support development if you have to. I (and others) will gladly support it if we are more confident in the future of Emby. If you've been around the discussions surrounding Plex's fiasco last week, Emby was always mentioned as an alternative but people were quick to shoot it down as being not that much better BECAUSE it lacks transparency and seems to be heading in the direction that Plex is. I believe that it isn't, but I guess there isn't concrete proof that it isn't.

 

Again, purchasing Premiere and thanks for your hard work. But I really hope to see you guys move further away from Plex's privacy policies in the future.

 

Well privacy policy is a completely different matter. We have no intentions or plans of ever sending data about your library or media playback to any remote server.

 

If you look at the history of Emby it all started with Media Browser. Our roots are in personal media and Live TV and that's where we intend to stay.

[BloodyIron 24]

By the way, this is why I chose Emby over Plex when initially deciding. I was not okay with their external auth by default, and by far prefer the internal-auth by default in Emby, and other privacy things. So, keep that up please! \o/

 

 

Well privacy policy is a completely different matter. We have no intentions or plans of ever sending data about your library or media playback to any remote server.

 

If you look at the history of Emby it all started with Media Browser. Our roots are in personal media and Live TV and that's where we intend to stay.

[BAlGaInTl 288]

By the way, this is why I chose Emby over Plex when initially deciding. I was not okay with their external auth by default, and by far prefer the internal-auth by default in Emby, and other privacy things. So, keep that up please! \o/

 

That was one of my deciding factors as well.

 

Other than reaching out to Emby to verify my license, I don't have to use any external service to connect.  I do everything with my own domains.

[chef 3810]

That was one of my deciding factors as well.

 

Other than reaching out to Emby to verify my license, I don't have to use any external service to connect. I do everything with my own domains.

And that is best part of the server!

Domain access make the world a better place.

 

I tried PLEX once... But I have been a big supporter since the early days of media browser, I really like the direction development has gone, especially within that last couple months.

 

There is about to be a very cool transition for emby in the coming weeks moving to .net core is very, very cool.

 

And that is the thing about emby that sometimes get understated, it is evolving and keeping up with new technological ideas and practices.

 

Writing plugins, for instance, will most certainly keep you up to date with cutting edge programming skills. And by the way, that is all open source! It's very cool!

Edited August 30, 2017 by chef