Images (Cache) disappears for HTPC

[shawn149 0]

Hello,

 

I have my media split between my WHS and the HTPC.  Whenever I boot my HTPC, my media is listed as "offline" and all of the image metadata like backdrops and the primary image is missing.

 

I did some tests and I found that whenever the "Scan Media Library" Schedule Task runs, the image metadata is removed.

 

I'm guessing that it's probably a settings issue, but I don't know where to begin looking...   Is there a way to keep the image data from disappearing? 

 

Thanks in advance!

 

[ebr 16185]

What version of the server are you using?  You should be sure you are up to date and also delay the start up of the server until after your WHS is fully ready and the network is initialized.

[AdrianW 1058]

Even when content is actually offline, it would be beneficial if the server wouldn't remove any of the cached images for those libraries that are unavailable for whatever reason. 

 

I know the main reason for the caching is to speed up browsing - but surely removing those cached images works against that goal, and also makes browsing offline content a dreary affair with no artwork.

[ebr 16185]

This gets really tricky because we need to somehow differentiate between something just being offline and something having actually been moved or deleted.

 

In the past, we've never actually removed anything from the cache or db when you delete it for this reason but we are in the process of changing that philosophy and now try to clean up after ourselves.

 

The issue you guys are seeing with the search turning up deleted items is related to this change in philosophy.  This change is allowing us to use the database for things like searches and make them much faster and reduce our memory requirements.

[shawn149 0]

To answer the first question, I'm using Emby server version 3.0.5724.3 on a Windows Server Essentials 2012 R2 operating system.

 

As for the different philosophies, I guess I'm confused.  Why tag media as "offline" and then purge the images?  Wouldn't it be less confusing to just purge the media and not have the offline tag?

 

On the other hand, if you have an offline tag, why purge the image cache and keep an empty placeholder?  This is the behavior that I'm experiencing that made me think my installation was broken.

 

That said, I guess at this time my only option is to disable the "Scan media library" scheduled task.  And then when I add new media, start a scan manually, but only after I make sure that all locations are online.  Doable, but it sounds a little too manual to me...  Are there any other options?

 

Is there a way to schedule the execution of the "Scan media library" task remotely?  For example, maybe via a Windows startup task and PowerShell?  That way when the HTPC comes online, a scan is started and the image cache rebuilt?  Just thinking out loud...

 

On the bright side, at least this wasn't something that I messed up...

[Luke 42081]

The server does not remove any cached images except for the regular cleanup of old cache files. Offline content has always been this way so this is nothing new. We don't copy all of your images into a cache. The issue isn't that anything is being removed from the cached but rather it wasn't in the cache in the first place. When content is offline the only images you get are ones that happen to already be in the cache.

[AdrianW 1058]

 The issue isn't that anything is being removed from the cached but rather it wasn't in the cache in the first place. When content is offline the only images you get are ones that happen to already be in the cache.

 

This is not what I'm experiencing though. I can browse my collection (via EMC and the WebUI) and see all the images (which I assume caches the images). But, the next time a scan runs when some of the media isn't available, then all of the images for that media are gone the next time I browse.

[Luke 42081]

it's just a coincidence. there is nothing that is going around deleting cached images based on whether content is offline or not. all cache files are recycled based on age so sooner or later they're going to cleared out and if you don't go and view that content in an app it's not going to be regenerated.

[ebr 16185]

Yes, my comments pertain only to the db.  The cache is just that and is only generated on request.

 

However, when using an app, there are multiple levels of caching in play (server, http and client) so any one of those levels may or may not contain the image for any particular item and, if the actual source of the image is unavailable there is no way to show it if it isn't cached.

[shawn149 0]

Okay, still confused...

 

So if the images really are somewhere, then why don't they appear again after a scan? In my case, I can shut down the HTPC, kick off a scan, and then bam! The images are missing when I restart the HTPC. I then have to kick off another scan to make the images appear.

 

If it's a location thing, how can I redirect the HTPC to put its images on the server?

 

I just don't understand why the images for offline media disappear when a media scan is executed.

[ebr 16185]

I just don't understand why the images for offline media disappear when a media scan is executed.

 

Are the images stored in the folders with the media?

[shawn149 0]

Yes. And I can confirm that they are there after a reboot. Emby just displays placeholders.

[ebr 16185]

Well, if they are stored with the media and the media is offline then the images won't be available either.

[shawn149 0]

Okay....  that said, this behavior is different from the "Media Browser" days because this issue didn't occur until I upgraded. 

 

Let me start over, shouldn't the server create cached copies of all of the media it indexes?  That way when media is offline, the placeholder has something that makes sense (i.e. album art); hence the "offline" tag on media that is offline.  

 

First, and I'm not trying to be difficult, but I honestly just don't understand why media that is flagged as "offline" doesn't have an image unless the media is "online".  Doesn't that defeat the purpose of having an "offline" tag?  And if the image cache is cleaned up when media is offline, why have an offline tag? 

 

Second, there's the issue that my HTPC displays empty placeholders when the images are stored with the media (this occurs when the media is offline and a "scan media library" task has been executed).  It appears that the images are stored with the media, so when the media comes online, shouldn't it display the images?  I think it should, but it demonstratedly doesn't work that way.  I have to manually start a "scan media library" for the images to appear.  I assume that when I run that scan, it is re-caching the images on the HTPC since they are not available to the server when the HTPC is offline. 

 

What do I need to provide to show that how things are being done right now doesn't make sense?

 

In any case, here is what I did to solve my problem:  On the server side, I removed the scheduled tasks for "scan media library". 

Good news, when I restart my HTPC, the images are displayed just like I expect. 

Bad news, when media is offline, I get an empty placeholder and the "Offline" moniker is not displayed.  Web page looks broken because of all of the empty boxes.

Ugly news,  I now have to make sure that when I add new media, all media locations (the HTPC and Server) must be powered on and accessible before I execute a "scan media library" task.

[marcomarco 0]

Hello,

 

as i'm quite new at this forum and not 100% familiar with the product emby, i'll first give you a short overview about my home theatre solution.

 

At the moment i'm using kodi as preferred solution to collection and play my tvshows or movies on different devices:

 

• Intel NUC
• RPi1
• RPi2
• two Android devices

 

My media is stored at two locations:

 

1. NAS
2. three USB devices @ intel NUC

As you could easily see, my Intel NUC is the "central device" as it is the only device with direct connection to the USB-HDDs.

 

At the moment 90% of movies/tvshows are watched on the NUC. To watch a show on the NUC, i start the PC and switch on my preferred USB-Disk.

If i wnat to watch a movie, i use WOL to start my NAS with a shortcut in KODI and five minutes later the movies are accessable. This is so easy to do these steps, even my wife is having no problems with that.

When i add now a new episode (on USB-HDD) or movie (on NAS) i just run the kodi scrapter and he will find the new show. For that I don't need to have all sources online, just those were the new media is available.

The scrapter is configured to run automatically and just add new media.

If a tvshow or movies is deleted, i need to have all sources switched on and manually ran a cleanup task in kodi.

 

This solution is very easy for me, as my wife just need to use kodi and does not have to know anything about scrapters,database updates,etc. She always has the latest database view, even if copied a new movie on the NAS, without updating KODI, because in the moment she is using the NAS, the database updates itself.

My wife is having always a complete view about the possible available media in kodi, even a USB-drive or NAS is offline

 

The only restriction is, that deleted files are still available in kodi, but this happens just one or two times a year.

 

Limitations of the other devices:

Additional scraping activities needed to have a complete overview of the available media

A centralized MYSQL-DB with kodi to need one scraper and to have a centralized watching state for all devices is not working as expected using a remote programm like yatse, as i saw delay issues (fetching images are slowing down the commands)

 

 

Why i want to use emby additional to kodi?

To have a centralized database with synchronised watching state over all devices

 

 

As shawn149 already said, why is a media marked offline and the picture removed?

 

I suggest the following mechanism and options:

 

• New optionbox if media should be marked as offline during scraping of new media(In my case i don't need the offline mark)
• Speed up scraping, when a whole (network-)device is not available. (maybe done by a ping-event or one marker file/directory) just pass over all media in DB from that device

 

BTW: If I centralize the downloaded metadata on the emby server and a new kodi device with emby plugin requests an DB-update for new tvshows or movies, will it get the banner, fanart, backgrounds, etc. even if the movie source is not available?

 

Thanks

[ebr 16185]

Let me start over, shouldn't the server create cached copies of all of the media it indexes?  That way when media is offline, the placeholder has something that makes sense (i.e. album art); hence the "offline" tag on media that is offline.  

 

There is no good reason for the system to make a complete copy of all of the metadata associated with your entire library.  Our caches are just that - they temporarily store items for quick re-retrieval when possible.  They aren't intended as an off line copy of your library information.

 

The system is primarily designed to access your content - which means it expects it to be available.  However, we do have the intelligence built in to allow you to at least see your items that aren't available in a temporary situation. But this is expected to be a temporary situation as the primary goal is to actually play the items which isn't possible if they aren't accessible.

[marcomarco 0]

There is no good reason for the system to make a complete copy of all of the metadata associated with your entire library.  Our caches are just that - they temporarily store items for quick re-retrieval when possible.  They aren't intended as an off line copy of your library information.

 

The system is primarily designed to access your content - which means it expects it to be available.  However, we do have the intelligence built in to allow you to at least see your items that aren't available in a temporary situation. But this is expected to be a temporary situation as the primary goal is to actually play the items which isn't possible if they aren't accessible.

Ok, i understood this design decision. As I'm still evalutating emby, please tell me, if i save the metadate like pictures on the emby server, will it still be available if I synchronize the database to KODI, even if the movie/TV-show is temporary not available?

 

Thank you very much

[ebr 16185]

Ok, i understood this design decision. As I'm still evalutating emby, please tell me, if i save the metadate like pictures on the emby server, will it still be available if I synchronize the database to KODI, even if the movie/TV-show is temporary not available?

 

Thank you very much

 

I would think so but I'm not intimately familiar with how the Kodi sync process works so the best thing to do is probably test it out and see.