Karbowiak 27 Posted July 24, 2015 Posted July 24, 2015 Hi there!Currently i have to rely on TVHeadEnd to interface with Oscam and my HDHomerun to descramble channels.I have no idea how easy (or terribly incredibly hard) it would be to add Oscam into the mix for EmbyTV. But if it is possible without too much faffing, it would be amazing!Stuff i found in my searches that goes way over my head:https://github.com/gfto/tsdecrypt
KRA 39 Posted July 24, 2015 Posted July 24, 2015 it's a dilemma, should you ban technology/software because some people use it for illegal purpose ? Should you ban μTorrent since people use bittorrent for illegal downlading? should you ban Emby because many people use it to handle their illegally acquired movies and tv shows ? I don't think this is illegal per say in many places, but I would guess it's in violation of your service provider contract ?
evox 7 Posted July 24, 2015 Posted July 24, 2015 it's a dilemma, should you ban technology/software because some people use it for illegal purpose ? Should you ban μTorrent since people use bittorrent for illegal downlading? should you ban Emby because many people use it to handle their illegally acquired movies and tv shows ? I don't think this is illegal per say in many places, but I would guess it's in violation of your service provider contract ?I'm with you, we can develop software as we want, people should use as they want. We know we can't drive over the limit but we have cars with lots of horsepower to be used. It's our problem how we use the things that we have, legal or illegal
Karbowiak 27 Posted July 24, 2015 Author Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) is this legal? Don't see why it wouldn't be. The cards from the providers are usually limited in how many times they can give out a key in a given timespan, which Oscam can't go around. But the channels still require a working card, which you can only get by paying for it. Only difference really is that instead of being put into a box that only has one (maybe two if you're lucky) tuners, with TVHeadEnd/VDR/??? it can be used to decode multiple channels at the same time. it's a dilemma, should you ban technology/software because some people use it for illegal purpose ? Should you ban μTorrent since people use bittorrent for illegal downlading? should you ban Emby because many people use it to handle their illegally acquired movies and tv shows ? I don't think this is illegal per say in many places, but I would guess it's in violation of your service provider contract ? I'm with you, we can develop software as we want, people should use as they want. We know we can't drive over the limit but we have cars with lots of horsepower to be used. It's our problem how we use the things that we have, legal or illegal I agree with both of you. But in this case it should all be completely above board, since it does require an actual working valid card from the TV provider for it to work. Edited July 24, 2015 by Karbowiak
Lee 212 Posted July 24, 2015 Posted July 24, 2015 Its illegal lets be real... Its cardsharing. Get a grip. 1
KRA 39 Posted July 24, 2015 Posted July 24, 2015 Its illegal lets be real... Its cardsharing. Get a grip. Why ? Oscam does not have to be cardsharing. Are there any laws that prohibit you from reading your subscription card in Oscam and using it for your own personal use ?
Karbowiak 27 Posted July 25, 2015 Author Posted July 25, 2015 Its illegal lets be real... Its cardsharing. Get a grip. Yes and no, if someone were to share their oscam install over the internet, it would indeed be illegal, but you'd still be limited in how many activations you can do pr. hour, since that is built into the card itself. But that doesn't mean it's what 90% of the people out there would use it for. (I could insert many dumb analogies here, guns / killing, cars / speed etc. etc. but nah) Besides, it's an honest request, many people have scrambled channels, and they're forced to use a much more complicated setup (VDR/TVHeadEnd + Oscam) than just EmbyTV.
Lee 212 Posted July 25, 2015 Posted July 25, 2015 You're circumventing the encryption no matter how you look at it, I'm not chastising anyone I've done it myself... I'm just saying lets be real it's not legit
KRA 39 Posted July 25, 2015 Posted July 25, 2015 You're circumventing the encryption no matter how you look at it, I'm not chastising anyone I've done it myself... I'm just saying lets be real it's not legit In that case. Lets be real about Emby - is not legit. There is code in emby you would not like to discuss openly. It even refers to "your downloaded media" in settings, who legally downloads media to put into emby database ? Sonarr is openly discussed in this forum - that shit is not legit. And then you are going to take a stand against Oscam, something most people simply use to get access to their subscribed and paid for TV channels ?
Karbowiak 27 Posted July 25, 2015 Author Posted July 25, 2015 You're circumventing the encryption no matter how you look at it, I'm not chastising anyone I've done it myself... I'm just saying lets be real it's not legit You're circumventing the encryption using a normal tv with a cam slot then, or a tv box or ... or ... Using the card to decrypt channels is what it's ment to do. Oscam is just a piece of software that allows applications to get said decryption keys over the network, or in this case, over localhost.
Lee 212 Posted July 25, 2015 Posted July 25, 2015 In that case. Lets be real about Emby - is not legit. There is code in emby you would not like to discuss openly. It even refers to "your downloaded media" in settings, who legally downloads media to put into emby database ? Sonarr is openly discussed in this forum - that shit is not legit. And then you are going to take a stand against Oscam, something most people simply use to get access to their subscribed and paid for TV channels ? I'm not making a stand, Luke asked if it's legal. It's not. I'll be happy if it gets put in. But, is it legal? No
Karbowiak 27 Posted July 25, 2015 Author Posted July 25, 2015 I'm not making a stand, Luke asked if it's legal. It's not. I'll be happy if it gets put in. But, is it legal? No It's not illegal, jeez. But we can discuss this till the end of time, and you and i won't agree. Fact is that it still requires a card that you have to pay for, and you'll still be restricted by the restrictions imposed by the card. All you're doing is using a piece of software to allow other pieces of software to ask for a decryption key for the channel in question. If that's illegal, we're all doing something illegal with any OS.
Lee 212 Posted July 25, 2015 Posted July 25, 2015 You're circumventing the encryption using a normal tv with a cam slot then, or a tv box or ... or ... Using the card to decrypt channels is what it's ment to do. Oscam is just a piece of software that allows applications to get said decryption keys over the network, or in this case, over localhost. No you aren't, the cam slot is there for that specific reason (decrypting the encryption) oscam is a software emulator for feeding the keys. If its in your own home its still circumventing as most sat providers have a multi room set up they provide...
Karbowiak 27 Posted July 25, 2015 Author Posted July 25, 2015 No you aren't, the cam slot is there for that specific reason (decrypting the encryption) oscam is a software emulator for feeding the keys. If its in your own home its still circumventing as most sat providers have a multi room set up they provide... It's not an emulator, lol. You have to use a card reader + a physical card to get the keys. Everything the TV with the CAM slot does, Oscam does too.
KRA 39 Posted July 25, 2015 Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) I'm not making a stand, Luke asked if it's legal. It's not. I'll be happy if it gets put in. But, is it legal? No If you are going to say it's illegal please provide link to law that says so. IMO, is it borderline - yes, can it be used legally - yes, can it be used illegal - yes, are there laws that prohibit it - yet to find one. Edited July 25, 2015 by KRA
c0m3r 95 Posted July 25, 2015 Posted July 25, 2015 Lets be clear here, the software itself is not illegal. Does it breach the terms of use of most providers? Probably yes. But does that make it illegal? No it does not.. Can the software be used for illegal or immoral purposes? Yes it can. Does that make it illegal? No it does not. There are a number of elements of emby which could be seen to be promoting piracy or other illegal acts. The whole digital media system is open to exploitation by pirates but does that make emby illegal? No it does not. Emby connect allows the sharing of media which I am sure vast number of people on here share with friends and family which could also be illegal in some places however that was not its intended use and emby uses a disclaimer to this effect I believe. Therefore, I would suggest the same principle is used here. Legitimate users of Oscam decrypting the cards they legitimately pay for to be used for their own purposes is not illegal, it is simply breaking the terms of use of the cable/satellite company who issue the card which, is an issue between the customer and provider, not the provider and emby. 1
im85288 1493 Posted July 25, 2015 Posted July 25, 2015 The fact that it has had such a heated discussion here should be enough to tell you that this plugin/idea is not going to be supported by the core emby team (this is my opinion only - I have no inside knowledge).
KRA 39 Posted July 25, 2015 Posted July 25, 2015 The fact that it has had such a heated discussion here should be enough to tell you that this plugin/idea is not going to be supported by the core emby team (this is my opinion only - I have no inside knowledge). Well there's one guy posting his own personal undocumentet opinion as "the law". And there are several people who do not agree with him. Someone should at least come up with a law that states this as illegal in even one country before we conclude it's illegal. Considering the foundation for emby software it seems a bit odd to take a stand against it. But I have no problem accepting that Emby don't want to get involved in this, if you look at other live-tv software they usually take a stand against this (not all), but everyone have the code to support it in their software. I love emby, but live-tv in emby is far behind the competition. It has the chance to make a quality frontend for network tuners (the new thing) with easy setup, but it needs this to be a contender.
c0m3r 95 Posted July 25, 2015 Posted July 25, 2015 The fact that it has had such a heated discussion here should be enough to tell you that this plugin/idea is not going to be supported by the core emby team (this is my opinion only - I have no inside knowledge). I dont personally have a problem if the emby team decide not to support it, I dont use it so has no effect on me. I just dislike it when people throw the word 'illegal' around with no basis on which to do so.
im85288 1493 Posted July 25, 2015 Posted July 25, 2015 Yeah it's a "grey" area and personally have no need for it either else I would build my own plugin for it.
c0m3r 95 Posted July 25, 2015 Posted July 25, 2015 Very true and in the end, so could anyone else if they really want it.
mini__me 28 Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 Looking at this another way, support could be provided for generic plugins as per DVBLink, a legitimate piece of paid for software.
Karbowiak 27 Posted July 27, 2015 Author Posted July 27, 2015 Looking at this another way, support could be provided for generic plugins as per DVBLink, a legitimate piece of paid for software. TVHeadEnd can already interface with Oscam, and Emby already has a plugin for TVHeadEnd. So it already exists, but if EmbyTV could provide it aswell, many (myself included) wouldn't have to jump through hoops to set it all up. TVHeadEnd is not for the faint of heart to setup
Spaceboy 2573 Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) It's not illegal, it's clearly breaching the providers t&c's and emby should have nothing to do with it. And this is despite me being a very happy Oscam user Edited July 27, 2015 by Spaceboy
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