Which app to use for Google TV?

[FrostByte 5555]

2 hours ago, tattler said:

Thanks for testing! I appreciate it. This is actually what I have been talking about: Emby server is transcoding the video, not Shield. If you play the same movie in ATV you should notice that Emby server is direct playing with TrueHD Atmos and Shield is converting it to AC3. I can see it in the Sonos app.

In my case, if I turned on the convert to dd option, Shield will convert it to DD 2.0. Same Shield settings and same movie, ATV version results in Shield converting it to DD 5.1. I can see this in the Sonos app. It is a huge difference in audio.

Okay, I think I can duplicate and understand what you are wanting now  

So, you want the hardware to convert to surround and NOT the server, correct?  In the end you get AC3 5.1 either way, but you're saying the quality is better when it's converted by the hardware to surround.  I tend to agree. Also, everything I'm seeing online on the nVidia page says the Shield can only convert to 16bit PCM and lacks the encoder to convert to anything else. 

Are your Android settings like mine above? 

When I set mine like above, then I'm still getting surround using AndroidTV (and SFN says TrueHD is direct playing as you say) but it's being converted to something because I lthen ose Atmos.  I just can't tell the stereo format because my soundbar doesn't display anything but Atmos and DTSX (otherwise that spot is blank) unlike your Sonos which tells you it's AC3 5.1. 

However, when using the new app and using the above settings then I'm getting stereo unless I select "convert unsupported surround" in the app which then forces the server to convert to AC3 5.1. 

BTW you can also get AndroidTV to tell the server to transcode to AC3 by lying and changing your Android settings saying it supports TrueHD, DTSHD, and DTS and then unselecting those audio formats within the AndroidTV app playback settings (they aren't there unless you change your Android settings first), but you don't want the server to do the converting.  Both apps should sound about the same then.

Edited yesterday at 08:21 PM by FrostByte

[CBers 7654]

3 hours ago, tattler said:

Thanks for testing! I appreciate it. This is actually what I have been talking about: Emby server is transcoding the video, not Shield. If you play the same movie in ATV you should notice that Emby server is direct playing with TrueHD Atmos and Shield is converting it to AC3. I can see it in the Sonos app.

In my case, if I turned on the convert to dd option, Shield will convert it to DD 2.0. Same Shield settings and same movie, ATV version results in Shield converting it to DD 5.1. I can see this in the Sonos app. It is a huge difference in audio.

Something is amiss in your setup, either on the Shield itself, or the settings in the ATV app, as the Shield should NOT be doing any transcoding/downmixing, as it can only downmix to PCM 2.0, not anything else. 

 If you have unsupported audio, then the server should be remuxing it to DD. 

I have a Sonos Playbar and the server remuxes unsupported audio to DD. 

Edit: I have just played the original AVATAR movie that has TrueHD 7.1 audio and both the ATV app and the Universal Android app both remux the audio to DD 5.1, whilst direct playing the video. 

Can I suggest that you check your settings again. 

Thanks. 

Edited yesterday at 08:37 PM by CBers

[FrostByte 5555]

Do you by chance have stereo upmix, or dolby audio processing turned on in the Android settings?  Mine aren't set.

 

[tattler 31]

Hi @CBersand @FrostBytethanks for testing this functionality. I appreciate it. So I went on testing to compare the ATV version and the Android version.

 

Shield TV Pro (2019) settings: 

 

 

Playing X-Men Days of Future Past with DTS-HD MA 7.1. The results are below.

ATV version:

 

SONOS app:

 

Android version (option to convert to DD in the app setting is disabled):

 

SONOS app:

 

Android version (option to convert to DD in the app setting is enabled):

 

SONOS app:

 

One thing to note: please ignore the subtitle burn-in with hardware from the diagnostics plugin as it is not relevant. It has worked for me flawlessly so that is not the cause. I just want to focus on this comparison between the ATV and Android version.

I hope this is more clear now what issue I am facing. If you need more details, please let me know.

 

[FrostByte 5555]

36 minutes ago, tattler said:

Hi @CBersand @FrostBytethanks for testing this functionality. I appreciate it. So I went on testing to compare the ATV version and the Android version.

 

Shield TV Pro (2019) settings: 

 

 

 

 

Playing X-Men Days of Future Past with DTS-HD MA 7.1. The results are below.

ATV version:

 

 

SONOS app:

 

 

Android version (option to convert to DD in the app setting is disabled

 

 

SONOS app:

 

 

Android version (option to convert to DD in the app setting is enabled):

 

 

SONOS app:

 

 

One thing to note: please ignore the subtitle burn-in with hardware from the diagnostics plugin as it is not relevant. It has worked for me flawlessly so that is not the cause. I just want to focus on this comparison between the ATV and Android version.

I hope this is more clear now what issue I am facing. If you need more details, please let me know.

 

@CBersI agree with tattler that when having the Android settings like I/we posted and playing TrueHD Atmos I get 5.1 with the AndroidTV app and stereo with the Android app.  Both apps say it's direct playing.  I just can't confirm what the converted format is with my hardware, though I'm pretty sure the new app is getting converted to PCM 2.0. 

But, I'm not sure why I'm still getting surround with ATV.  The conversion must be getting done at the hardware level.  I know it's not TrueHD because Atmos is lost.

@CBers If you wouldn't mind testing TrueHD Atmos with the following Android settings?

I had to turn off DTS, DTSHD, and TrueHD manually, but that's probably your default on the Sonos

Then within the two apps make sure you aren't allowing the server to transcode and it's direct playing in SFN.

I get 5.1 with one and 2.0 with the other being converted assumingly at the hardware level by both. 

Edited 7 hours ago by FrostByte

[CBers 7654]

@tattlerSo you just need to have the "Convert unsupported audio to DD" option enabled in the Universal Android app and you will get DD 5.1 on your Sonos soundbar, remuxed by your server. 

The ATV app already does it all for you, hence no option. 

These are my audio settings on the 2015 Shield connected to my Sonos Playbar.

 

Edited 7 hours ago by CBers

[FrostByte 5555]

@tattleronly thing I can suggest is opening your own thread and asking if Luke can make it happen with the new app just like ATV if you think it sounds better.  Explaining everything and tag me and I'll mention I see the same the same. 

Otherwise do like CBers says and let the server do it if using the new app.  Though I don't think ATV is going away any time soon if you don't want to. 

Or, get a new soundbar

[CBers 7654]

Just now, FrostByte said:

Otherwise do like CBers says and let the server do it if using the new app. 

Both the ATV app and the Universal Android app remux the audio to present DD 5.1 to my Sonos Playbar with the option enabled, so not sure there's anything Luke needs to do. 

 

[FrostByte 5555]

3 minutes ago, CBers said:

Both the ATV app and the Universal Android app remux the audio to present DD 5.1 to my Sonos Playbar with the option enabled, so not sure there's anything Luke needs to do. 

 

If ebr can make ATV play it DD 5.1 then why wouldn't Luke be able to.  Especially if it sounds better when the hardware converts it vs when the server does it

Edit: and those options turned off of course

Edited 7 hours ago by FrostByte

[tattler 31]

1 hour ago, CBers said:

@tattlerSo you just need to have the "Convert unsupported audio to DD" option enabled in the Universal Android app and you will get DD 5.1 on your Sonos soundbar, remuxed by your server. 

The ATV app already does it all for you, hence no option. 

These are my audio settings on the 2015 Shield connected to my Sonos Playbar.

 

Hi @CBersI think this is the whole point: I don't want the Emby server to transcode. If I can get this working properly on ATV, why can't the universal Android version do that? You can't convince me in this case that both apps do the same thing, because they are not as I have the evidence in the screenshots. So for now I will stick to ATV until this is fixed.

Thank you for testing and explaining. I appreciate your time and effort here.

Edited 5 hours ago by tattler

[tattler 31]

25 minutes ago, FrostByte said:

@tattleronly thing I can suggest is opening your own thread and asking if Luke can make it happen with the new app just like ATV if you think it sounds better.  Explaining everything and tag me and I'll mention I see the same the same. 

Otherwise do like CBers says and let the server do it if using the new app.  Though I don't think ATV is going away any time soon if you don't want to. 

Or, get a new soundbar

Can't we tag him here to see what he has to say? Creating a new thread seems redundant. I think this is the best thread for this discussion as the title already says which android app to use. I would therefore like to use this thread to highlight the pros and cons of both apps. Let me know what you think. Thank you for your effort and time in this. I really really really appreciate it!

 

[FrostByte 5555]

Ya, you're probably okay unless since Luke didn't say anything

Edit: he can always split it too if he wants to

 

Edited 6 hours ago by FrostByte

[tattler 31]

48 minutes ago, FrostByte said:

Ya, you're probably okay unless since Luke didn't say anything

Edit: he can always split it too if he wants to

 

Thanks. How do I tag him then? I would really like to know what his opinion is on this since he is the Luke's Law  

[tattler 31]

1 hour ago, CBers said:

Both the ATV app and the Universal Android app remux the audio to present DD 5.1 to my Sonos Playbar with the option enabled, so not sure there's anything Luke needs to do. 

 

I understand that you are not having the same issue as me but it does not mean it does not exist. This is some kind of an edge case I supposed? Does ATV and the universal app share the same code base? I doubt that otherwise this will not happen. 

[FrostByte 5555]

59 minutes ago, tattler said:

Thanks. How do I tag him then? I would really like to know what his opinion is on this since he is the Luke's Law  

Just type the '@' symbol and start typing Luke.  You should see a list popup.  He will then automatically get a message saying you tagged him in this thread

[FrostByte 5555]

@tattlerI could argue that the standard app does it the right way and ATV wrong too if I had an Android TV with no soundbar.  Then PCM 2.0 would sound better than lossy AC3 with only two speakers.  At least you would still have the choice to let the server convert it the way it is now.

Unless it somehow also checks the number of channels which I never tested.  

Edited 4 hours ago by FrostByte

[tattler 31]

40 minutes ago, FrostByte said:

@tattlerI could argue that the standard app does it the right way and ATV wrong too if I had an Android TV with no soundbar.  Then PCM 2.0 would sound better than lossy AC3 with only two speakers.  At least you would still have the choice to let the server convert it the way it is now.

Unless it somehow also checks the number of channels which I never tested.  

Fair point there but with a setup of 2 speakers you won't hear the difference. Emby always transcodes it to either mp3 or aac anyway.

[tattler 31]

Hmm I found something peculiar in the Emby server log:

/app/emby/bin/ffmpeg -loglevel +timing -y -print_graphs_file "/config/logs/ffmpeg-remux-06a47e9b-6f71-4de6-9ae5-e81904c920ab_1graph.txt" -copyts -start_at_zero -f matroska,webm -ss 01:13:00.000 -noaccurate_seek -c:v:0 h264 -noautorotate -i "/data/media/movies/X-Men Days of Future Past (2014)/X-Men Days of Future Past (2014) [imdb-tt1877832][Remux-1080p][DTS-HD MA 7.1].mkv" -map 0:0 -map 0:1 -sn -c:v:0 copy -bsf:v:0 h264_mp4toannexb -c:a:0 eac3 -ab:a:0 384000 -ac:a:0 6 -metadata:s:a:0 language=eng -disposition:a:0 default -max_delay 5000000 -avoid_negative_ts disabled -f segment -map_metadata -1 -map_chapters -1 -segment_format mpegts -segment_list "/transcode/transcoding-temp/61D6A6/61D6A6.m3u8" -segment_list_type m3u8 -segment_time 00:00:06.000 -segment_time_delta -01:13:00.000 -segment_start_number 730 -break_non_keyframes 1 -individual_header_trailer 0 -write_header_trailer 0 -segment_write_temp 1 "/transcode/transcoding-temp/61D6A6/61D6A6_%d.ts"

This is the ATV app playing the movie. It seems that the Emby server is remuxing the audio, just like the universal android version. Could there be somehow a technical naming error in the UI in ATV? It shows direct-play for audio but in fact it is remuxing it. I am really confused now

[CBers 7654]

1 hour ago, tattler said:

This is the ATV app playing the movie. It seems that the Emby server is remuxing the audio, just like the universal android version. Could there be somehow a technical naming error in the UI in ATV? It shows direct-play for audio but in fact it is remuxing it. I am really confused now

@ebrCould you comment here please. 

 

[CBers 7654]

5 hours ago, tattler said:

I don't want the Emby server to transcode.

Why? Is your server that underpowered to  remux audio? 

[FrostByte 5555]

1 hour ago, tattler said:

Hmm I found something peculiar in the Emby server log:

/app/emby/bin/ffmpeg -loglevel +timing -y -print_graphs_file "/config/logs/ffmpeg-remux-06a47e9b-6f71-4de6-9ae5-e81904c920ab_1graph.txt" -copyts -start_at_zero -f matroska,webm -ss 01:13:00.000 -noaccurate_seek -c:v:0 h264 -noautorotate -i "/data/media/movies/X-Men Days of Future Past (2014)/X-Men Days of Future Past (2014) [imdb-tt1877832][Remux-1080p][DTS-HD MA 7.1].mkv" -map 0:0 -map 0:1 -sn -c:v:0 copy -bsf:v:0 h264_mp4toannexb -c:a:0 eac3 -ab:a:0 384000 -ac:a:0 6 -metadata:s:a:0 language=eng -disposition:a:0 default -max_delay 5000000 -avoid_negative_ts disabled -f segment -map_metadata -1 -map_chapters -1 -segment_format mpegts -segment_list "/transcode/transcoding-temp/61D6A6/61D6A6.m3u8" -segment_list_type m3u8 -segment_time 00:00:06.000 -segment_time_delta -01:13:00.000 -segment_start_number 730 -break_non_keyframes 1 -individual_header_trailer 0 -write_header_trailer 0 -segment_write_temp 1 "/transcode/transcoding-temp/61D6A6/61D6A6_%d.ts"

This is the ATV app playing the movie. It seems that the Emby server is remuxing the audio, just like the universal android version. Could there be somehow a technical naming error in the UI in ATV? It shows direct-play for audio but in fact it is remuxing it. I am really confused now

I also noticed that it's DD+ and not DD like the rest of the apps

[FrostByte 5555]

Maybe that's why it sounds better to you

 

[FrostByte 5555]

2 hours ago, tattler said:

Could there be somehow a technical naming error in the UI in ATV? It shows direct-play for audio but in fact it is remuxing it. I am really confused now

I'm going back to what I read on the nVidia forum that the Shield can only convert to PCM 2.0 because it doesn't have any other encoder

[tattler 31]

37 minutes ago, CBers said:

Why? Is your server that underpowered to  remux audio? 

My excuses. I misunderstood that. I saw Audio transcode in the UI. Transcode is not the same as remuxing. I have a Synology 920+ that is capable of doing just that without a sweat