Emby Theater 2.0 on Xbox is a serious downgrade. Please explain.

[emptybeercan 3]

Been a long time Emby user/fan, and recommend to all my friends and family.  Until the new 2.0 update.  (In my comments below when I refer to the "Old Version" I mean the latest update before the 2.0 version that was pushed out before Xmas)

I still have 2 consoles that fortunately have NOT taken the new update that work just fine (dispite being asked to update every time I launch).  This allows me to compare against the new version which has serious issues.

1. Obviously the start animation takes a long time.  I've read the posts on how to disable, but say that it won't start any faster.  My question is:  Why is it so much slower?  The 2.0 version takes 2-4 times longer to start than the old version.  If it isn't from the animation, then what is it from?

2. Captions are completely random.  Sometimes tiny.  Sometimes huge.  Sometimes in random locations.  Still works great in the version I have prior to 2.0.  What changed?  I have VOBSUB, SRT, MOVE_TXT, and ASS.  All still work fine in the old version.  Lately on the new version the captions start out tiny, but if you stop and restart they are fine.  If that isn't just a straight up bug, I'm not sure what is.

3. Starting a movie/show or moving to the next show after finishing the current one, takes 2-3 times longer in the new version.  Why?  Still works great in the old version.

4. Pretty much the only remote buttons that work in the 2.0 version are navigation,  Up/down/left/right/OK, and back.  All buttons still work fine in the old version including skip forward/back, and prev/next episode.  Why do these not work in the new 2.0 version?  I see posts on what IR codes/devices you support, but at the end of the day it works in the old version and not the new.  Why?

5. In the new 2.0 version, it is now much more difficult to tell where focus is.  Was this change based on lots of feedback from users, or just random?

6. Why decide to push the 2.0 version out, just before the holidays when many are home with their loved ones and will ultimately be watching content more than usual?  So many were faced with lackluster performance, green screens when trying to play videos, and all the other issues above that are still present today.  Seems like more validation would have been a better idea rather than trying to get out before the holidays.

I have a hard time believing that these items are because of changes in the OS or restrictions by Microsoft in the cert process (which is now almost entirely controlled by the publisher).  Rather it seems that the testing/validation process has been compromised, or perhaps abandoned all together.

I only use Xbox for Emby.  Perhaps there is less desire to spend resources supporting this platform?  If so, that is fine.  Just let us know.   Opening Emby in the browser is tedious at best, and really not a viable alternative.

Not trying to be a Karen here, I just want the reliability/functionality that was present before this update back.  I've since had to move to Plex which has it's pros and cons, but it does allow me to use it free on any number of devices, whereas with Emby I have to have a subscription to use more than one console at a time.

If you do nothing, perhaps publish the old version for 24 hours so those of us that want the functionality back can update our consoles and turn automatic updates off, and/or create a copy on a usb key that we can fall back to.  Sadly I cannot take the version that works on my Series X and install it on my old Xbox One.

[softworkz 5066]

3 minutes ago, emptybeercan said:

1. Obviously the start animation takes a long time.  I've read the posts on how to disable, but say that it won't start any faster.  My question is:  Why is it so much slower?  The 2.0 version takes 2-4 times longer to start than the old version.  If it isn't from the animation, then what is it from?

It is the WebView2 (;MS Edge Chrromium browser engine) which takes so long to load. Previous version used EdgeHtml (MS' own engine after IE), which is much more lightweight.

13 minutes ago, emptybeercan said:

2. Captions are completely random.  Sometimes tiny.  Sometimes huge.  Sometimes in random locations.  Still works great in the version I have prior to 2.0.  What changed?  I have VOBSUB, SRT, MOVE_TXT, and ASS.  All still work fine in the old version.  Lately on the new version the captions start out tiny, but if you stop and restart they are fine.  If that isn't just a straight up bug, I'm not sure what is.

Can you provide test files so we can reproduce? I'll send you an upload link.

14 minutes ago, emptybeercan said:

4. Pretty much the only remote buttons that work in the 2.0 version are navigation,  Up/down/left/right/OK, and back.  All buttons still work fine in the old version including skip forward/back, and prev/next episode.  Why do these not work in the new 2.0 version?  I see posts on what IR codes/devices you support, but at the end of the day it works in the old version and not the new.  Why?

First of all, the posts you mention were about Windows.

For why it doesn't work: That's a good question. We had users in the beta for which it was working fine and not much more attention was spent on it. We've ordered some Xbox remotes yesterday. Which model do you have?

16 minutes ago, emptybeercan said:

5. In the new 2.0 version, it is now much more difficult to tell where focus is.  Was this change based on lots of feedback from users, or just random?

There shouldn't be a difference. Could you make a photo or screenshot?

17 minutes ago, emptybeercan said:

6. Why decide to push the 2.0 version out, just before the holidays when many are home with their loved ones and will ultimately be watching content more than usual?  So many were faced with lackluster performance, green screens when trying to play videos, and all the other issues above that are still present today.  Seems like more validation would have been a better idea rather than trying to get out before the holidays.

The beta wasn't well organized. There was just that forum message "send a mesage and we'll add you". We should have made a list of users and each one's devices to make sure that we have good enough coverage of Xbox in general and also across models - and that wasn't the case. The Windows side was fine, but Xbox users were seemingly underrepresented. 
We didn't even know how many of the beta users had Xbox, just those who had reported something. I was assuming a similar relation of windows:xbox users like usual but it seems it's been far off, don't know why to be honest.

[emptybeercan 3]

Thanks for the responses.  With regards to the new "MS Edge Chrromium browser engine", what was the benefit of moving to this?  From my perpective it was a downgrade, but perhaps there are benefits I'm not aware of.  Perhaps it was the usual "Support for this old engine is going away so move to the new one".  Any chance you've reached out to Microsoft to get insights as to why it is so slow?  Surely other developers have noticed the decrease in speed.

Via the upload link you provided, I've uploaded a file that reproduces one of the CC issues (font too small).  It seems to happen when I finish watching one show, and it auto plays the next show, then the font is super small.  The screen shots I've attached show it small, and the correct size.  When this happens (too small), stopping the video and restarting fixes it, until the next show in the series auto plays.  Additionally I've also included a .SRT file that when selected is left justified for some reason.  This also seems like a regression from the old version.

I use the original Xbox One Media Remote.  Included a picture of it in my uploads.  For what it's worth, the controller buttons work for skip fwd/back and next/prev video.  So the functionality is there, just not via the remote.

There is also another odd issue I've encountered with the new version that I forgot to mention which is that it seems to get double button presses sometimes.  For example, when choosing a video from the continue watching list, the video details are then shown.  When you select the Resume button, you hear 2 button press sounds, and the UI even does a quick refresh between the two sounds, as if the command is processed twice.  It's pretty strange and a little jarring at times.  To reproduce, make sure you have sounds on as it may not be as noticeable with them off.

If it is possible, I think it would be good to re-publish the last Xbox version before 2.0 (I have 1.1.436.70 which works great), and keep the new 2.0 version in Beta a little longer until things can get sorted.  I don't usually participate in beta's but I'd be happy to flight the new 2.0 version in the hopes of making it better and getting things closer to where they were in the 1.1 version.

Thanks

[softworkz 5066]

18 hours ago, emptybeercan said:

With regards to the new "MS Edge Chrromium browser engine", what was the benefit of moving to this?

Browser features are constantly evolving and development of the old MS Edge Engine has ceased several years ago. There's almost no more way of using it. The last Visual Studio version supporting the project type "UWP with WinJS" is Visual Studio 2017 and the only reason why it was still even working is thanks to Microsoft's compatibility policies. If it was Google or Apple, it would have stopped working long ago.

Emby core app is aiming to use the latest web features and keeping compatibility with an abandoned browser engine is not feasible, going forward.

18 hours ago, emptybeercan said:

Any chance you've reached out to Microsoft to get insights as to why it is so slow?  Surely other developers have noticed the decrease in speed.

It is in no way slow, only the startup takes some time. We started development about 1.5 years ago, WebView2 was just introduced on the Xbox. The slow startup is the same on Windows (unless you use the shared engine), we hope they'll be able to improve this over time.

18 hours ago, emptybeercan said:

Via the upload link you provided, I've uploaded a file that reproduces one of the CC issues (font too small).  It seems to happen when I finish watching one show, and it auto plays the next show, then the font is super small.  The screen shots I've attached show it small, and the correct size.  When this happens (too small), stopping the video and restarting fixes it, until the next show in the series auto plays.  Additionally I've also included a .SRT file that when selected is left justified for some reason.  This also seems like a regression from the old version.

Thanks, I've seen it. Will try to reproduce during the next few days.

18 hours ago, emptybeercan said:

There is also another odd issue I've encountered with the new version that I forgot to mention which is that it seems to get double button presses sometimes.  For example, when choosing a video from the continue watching list, the video details are then shown.  When you select the Resume button, you hear 2 button press sounds, and the UI even does a quick refresh between the two sounds, as if the command is processed twice.  It's pretty strange and a little jarring at times.  To reproduce, make sure you have sounds on as it may not be as noticeable with them off.

This hasn't been reported yet, even after the release, we'll try to reporduce.

18 hours ago, emptybeercan said:

If it is possible, I think it would be good to re-publish the last Xbox version before 2.0 (I have 1.1.436.70 which works great)

After fixing the playback issues and HEVC playback (via the lottery), all other users appear to be quite satisfied besides a number of detail issues.
Reverting isn't reasonably possible anyway, I'm afraid.

Thanks a lot for your feedback!

[emptybeercan 3]

Looks like the SRT subtitle issue is my issue.  There are random {\an1} strings in my SRT files.  No idea where that came from but that makes everything left justified.

[softworkz 5066]

6 minutes ago, emptybeercan said:

Looks like the SRT subtitle issue is my issue.  There are random {\an1} strings in my SRT files.  No idea where that came from but that makes everything left justified.

Okay, thanks for letting us know.

So left is only the double-button issue, right?

[emptybeercan 3]

Yes, in addition to the small captions, the missing focus, and the skip fwd/back, and next/prev episode remote buttons not working.

I'll see if I can try to get the exact repro steps for the double-button case.

Actually, I just installed the 210 version released several hours ago and found a new issue.  I believe it is related to the new browser engine and the time it takes to start a video.  If you click the Resumt/Play button to start a video (such as a show from continue watching), but then you press back before the show starts, the show starts eventually and you have no focus.  Meaning you can't stop the show, go back to where you were in the UI, etc.  Even if you go to the Xbox dashboard the video is still playing audio in the background.

Another issue I recall, not new to 210, is that when you start Emby, sometimes you have no focus and can press any number of buttons and nothing happens.  You have to press the Xbox button on the remote/controller and then close it and then Emby gets focus back.  I just ran into this again after updating to the new 210 version.