Are there hardcoded limits for the auto quality setting?

[Happy2Play 9780]

3 minutes ago, C.S. said:

3 hours ago, Happy2Play said:

Easy fix all clients should be defaulted to Max and the server admin will be required to throttle their users to a value that works for them and their remote users.

This would be perfect if we could also throttle "local" users who happen to be connecting remotely through a home VPN, like some of us have set up as an alternative to SSL.

Yes the side effects of circumventing being consider Remote so "Internet streaming bitrate limit (Mbps)" will not apply.  But shouldn't be that hard to ensure your Home VPN is not consider local to make it work.  But going off topic.

[C.S. 93]

19 minutes ago, Happy2Play said:

Yes the side effects of circumventing being consider Remote so "Internet streaming bitrate limit (Mbps)" will not apply.  But shouldn't be that hard to ensure your Home VPN is not consider local to make it work.  But going off topic.

You're right this is off topic, I'm sorry about that. But I don't understand how I would get the VPN addresses to be considered "remote", since I have both SSL and VPN users, so any users connecting from a remote or "remote" address would only connect through the public SSL domain / port, right? As it is I have to add all my VPN networks to the LAN list or they can't connect. (If you want to give me the solution over PM that would be great. Sorry again I don't mean to hijack.)

[yocker 1247]

To the Emby team:

Been thinking about this some more.
Is there a possibility of making it so that 0.0.0.0/24 in lan networks doesn't make it so that admin account is accessible from all networks?
That way i can force "auto" to be highest without any problems and have people lower quality when there's problems instead of transcoding every single thing when they don't need to.

[rbjtech 5284]

8 hours ago, yocker said:

To the Emby team:

Been thinking about this some more.
Is there a possibility of making it so that 0.0.0.0/24 in lan networks doesn't make it so that admin account is accessible from all networks?
That way i can force "auto" to be highest without any problems and have people lower quality when there's problems instead of transcoding every single thing when they don't need to.

Hacks on top of a hack is never a good idea - Emby need to fix the root cause of why it transcodes in the first place imo.   ie add proper functionality, a vpn exclude section or ensure Auto actual does what it says on the tin, allow client side bandwidth settings overwrite on the server, allow actual device configuration control etc...

Edited November 14, 2024 by rbjtech

[yocker 1247]

6 hours ago, rbjtech said:

Hacks on top of a hack is never a good idea - Emby need to fix the root cause of why it transcodes in the first place imo.   ie add proper functionality, a vpn exclude section or ensure Auto actual does what it says on the tin, allow client side bandwidth settings overwrite on the server, allow actual device configuration control etc...

I agree but i don't want to wait a year plus for a fix. Not casting shade on the developers, you are doing a great job!
I would just like a quick "fix" while waiting for something better, anything really to improve the situation.

What i asked is, for now, the only thing i can think off that will be server side only and not have to change any clients so should be the quickest temporary fix.

[cochize1 55]

On 03/10/2024 at 18:07, Happy2Play said:

Personally have all remote users set clients to max and throttle per the user profile.

@Happy2PlayI believe I've seen you posting this somewhere else some time ago and it got my attention. Could please explain more details on how you set this up? Is there any user activity needed or you can set it to max (i.e. 60Mb/s) remotely?

[rbjtech 5284]

24 minutes ago, cochize1 said:

@Happy2PlayI believe I've seen you posting this somewhere else some time ago and it got my attention. Could please explain more details on how you set this up? Is there any user activity needed or you can set it to max (i.e. 60Mb/s) remotely?

A highly technical solution where you ask the user verbally to set the playback limit during a playback session  .. 

Why this cannot be set from the server when that user/devices logs on (to overwrite 'Auto' that simply does not work..) is anyones guess ..    If the user has set it manually, then this should probably overwrite for that session only, defaulting back to the device set limit each time they login.

Edited November 18, 2024 by rbjtech

[cochize1 55]

1 minute ago, rbjtech said:

A highly technical solution where you ask the user verbally to set the playback limit during a playback session  .. 

you mean talk to people directly like in some XiX th century? my vocal cords got a little rusty i guess...

 

2 minutes ago, rbjtech said:

Why this cannot be set from the server when that user/devices logs on (to overwrite 'Auto' that simply does not work..) is anyones guess

so nobody has written  any python script that would do it for me or maybe someone managed to twaek some emby system files responsible for that?

[Happy2Play 9780]

1 hour ago, cochize1 said:

1 hour ago, rbjtech said:

Why this cannot be set from the server when that user/devices logs on (to overwrite 'Auto' that simply does not work..) is anyones guess

so nobody has written  any python script that would do it for me or maybe someone managed to twaek some emby system files responsible for that?

My understanding it is a client setting not a user/server setting.

2 hours ago, cochize1 said:

@Happy2PlayI believe I've seen you posting this somewhere else some time ago and it got my attention. Could please explain more details on how you set this up? Is there any user activity needed or you can set it to max (i.e. 60Mb/s) remotely?

It has to be set on the client by the user so no you can not do it remotely.  As all clients are defaulted to I believe Auto.

[rbjtech 5284]

13 minutes ago, Happy2Play said:

My understanding it is a client setting not a user/server setting.

It has to be set on the client by the user so no you can not do it remotely.  As all clients are defaulted to I believe Auto.

Yes - but why ?

The server side can LIMIT playback - ie the server/user can configure the client to play at less than configured.

ie - I force my client to 10 Mbit but set the stream max to 1Mbit on the server.     During the client negiotation, you can clealy see the JSON payload passing info to the client (incl the 1Mbit limit) - the client then plays at 1Mbit (transcode or whatever).

So the mechanisms and capabilities are available - so why can it not work the other way - and rather than limit the bandwidth - at the device level (the details are now all in the db), it simply overwrites 'auto' - if nothing is set - then use auto...

[cochize1 55]

and out of curiosity, has anyone played with that js files settings and does it actually work?
 

https://emby.media/community/index.php?/topic/125404-auto-quality-issues-in-web-app/

[ebr 16169]

4 hours ago, rbjtech said:

Yes - but why ?

Because the bandwidth that any particular device can handle is 100% related to that device and its environment at that time (assuming high capacity at the server but that is what the server side limit is for).

So, having the server force an arbitrary value on what a device can successfully achieve is a recipe for creating a situation that produces terrible or no playback.

Not saying we won't eventually implement some way of doing this, but I foresee a lot of increased troubleshooting when people tie themselves in a knot.

[yocker 1247]

15 minutes ago, ebr said:

Because the bandwidth that any particular device can handle is 100% related to that device and its environment at that time (assuming high capacity at the server but that is what the server side limit is for).

So, having the server force an arbitrary value on what a device can successfully achieve is a recipe for creating a situation that produces terrible or no playback.

Not saying we won't eventually implement some way of doing this, but I foresee a lot of increased troubleshooting when people tie themselves in a knot.

It does sound like it would make it possible to control the "auto" quality from the server though.

Fx. i could just set auto quality to be max and then people could lower their quality if needed. Or fine tune the auto quality to be more fitting to internet quality in the country where the server is located.

[Q-Droid 989]

6 hours ago, rbjtech said:

So the mechanisms and capabilities are available - so why can it not work the other way - and rather than limit the bandwidth - at the device level (the details are now all in the db), it simply overwrites 'auto' - if nothing is set - then use auto...

This is almost possible now and if the devs were to allow disabling the bandwidth detection it would be done.

The server has a global per stream bitrate limit that can be defined by the admin. It also has a per user bitrate limit which overrides the server's global limit. Emby admins can now tell their users to manually set their playback limit to a high value then manage it from the server. But if the devs were to allow us to disable the bandwidth check (per user or device would be even better) then we could manage entirely from the server without user intervention.

Disable or ignore, either would work.

 

 

Edited November 18, 2024 by Q-Droid

[rbjtech 5284]

12 hours ago, ebr said:

Because the bandwidth that any particular device can handle is 100% related to that device and its environment at that time (assuming high capacity at the server but that is what the server side limit is for).

So, having the server force an arbitrary value on what a device can successfully achieve is a recipe for creating a situation that produces terrible or no playback.

Not saying we won't eventually implement some way of doing this, but I foresee a lot of increased troubleshooting when people tie themselves in a knot.

For mobile devices, then it's fair enough - but for fixed devices on todays broadband - then the 4Mbit fixed 'Auto' setting (an oxymoron if I ever say one..) is not only giving the user a 'terrible' playback experience (in your own words) but also wasting power on the server for the transcode.

Either fix the Auto so it actually works (as is the case with AndroidTV..) or simply allow you to set a DEVICE bandwidth setting and put that feature to actual use as device capabilities are clearly stored in the db...      Maybe have a fixed or mobile setting - and for mobile, you cannot set the bandwidth value - keep it simple.

[rbjtech 5284]

11 hours ago, Q-Droid said:

This is almost possible now and if the devs were to allow disabling the bandwidth detection it would be done.

The server has a global per stream bitrate limit that can be defined by the admin. It also has a per user bitrate limit which overrides the server's global limit. Emby admins can now tell their users to manually set their playback limit to a high value then manage it from the server. But if the devs were to allow us to disable the bandwidth check (per user or device would be even better) then we could manage entirely from the server without user intervention.

Disable or ignore, either would work.

Exactly - just another strange Emby decision based on lowering possible support calls vs giving the admin/users the best possible playback experience...

[ebr 16169]

8 hours ago, rbjtech said:

then the 4Mbit fixed 'Auto' setting

Is that actually the case with any TV devices though?  I know it is not the case with Roku or Android TV...

8 hours ago, rbjtech said:

just another strange Emby decision based on lowering possible support calls vs giving the admin/users the best possible playback experience

Surely, you understand those two things are intricately related...  (sorry, didn't mean to call you Shirley )

[rbjtech 5284]

9 minutes ago, ebr said:

Is that actually the case with any TV devices though?  I know it is not the case with Roku or Android TV...

LG for sure - the number of times I've asked my son to set it to 30Mbit is becoming a joke between us - every time he installs a new version, it forgets all the previous config incl his logon..

Samsung - It's been a while since I've seen this, but it used to always be 'Auto/4Mbit'

12 minutes ago, ebr said:

Surely, you understand those two things are intricately related...  (sorry, didn't mean to call you Shirley )

Of course, but I think offering an alternative solution to a broken/fake 'Auto' needs some serious consideration by Emby.

[yocker 1247]

50 minutes ago, rbjtech said:

Samsung - It's been a while since I've seen this, but it used to always be 'Auto/4Mbit'

Having two users connected right now with Samsung TVs. It's 6Mpbs.

Must be horrible on the 75" Oled one of them is watching it on but i have given up trying to explain.
We seriously need something done about this, it hurts my brain how i try and ensure everything is in DV/HDR with maximum compatibility for multiple devices and people still can't figure out that auto doesn't work and continue to watch low quality video on their high end TVs.

My graphics card is sweating from the transcoding. 

 

[seanbuff 1315]

1 hour ago, ebr said:

Is that actually the case with any TV devices though?

Definitely the case for LG and Apple TV devices.

[Jdiesel 1431]

I see in the 4.9.0.33 beta changelog mention of

Increase remote quality default value

Are you able to provide any detail on what this will be? I'm going to test it out myself but it would be nice to know what the expected changes are.

Edited December 13, 2024 by Jdiesel

[Luke 42077]

8 minutes ago, Jdiesel said:

I see in the 4.9.0.33 beta changelog mention of

Increase remote quality default value

Are you able to provide any detail on what this will be? I'm going to test it out myself but it would be nice to know what the expected changes are.

On supported devices the remote quality setting is now split into two values - remote and remote (cellular). The remote connection default has been bumped up to 12 mbps. The remote (cellular) default is 1 mbps.

[Jdiesel 1431]

1 minute ago, Luke said:

On supported devices the remote quality setting is now split into two values - remote and remote (cellular). The remote connection default has been bumped up to 12 mbps. The remote (cellular) default is 1 mbps.

That sounds great! Looking forward to testing it out

[Happy2Play 9780]

Was just going to say that.  But will assume all client will need an update as this would be the web client.

    function detectBitrateWithEndpointInfo(instance, endpointInfo) {
        switch (endpointInfo.NetworkType) {
        case "wan":
            return function () {
                if ("undefined" != typeof navigator) {
                    var connection = navigator.connection;
                    if (connection) {
                        var downlink = connection.downlink;
                        if (downlink && 0 < downlink && downlink < Number.POSITIVE_INFINITY)
                            return downlink = downlink * 1e6 * .7, downlink = parseInt(downlink);
                        if ((downlink = connection.downlinkMax) && 0 < downlink && downlink < Number.POSITIVE_INFINITY)
                            return downlink = downlink * 1e6 * .7, downlink = parseInt(downlink)
                    }
                }
                return null
            }
            () || 12e6;
        case "cellular":
            return 1000001;
        default:
            return 2e8
        }
    }

 

[yocker 1247]

10 minutes ago, Luke said:

On supported devices the remote quality setting is now split into two values - remote and remote (cellular). The remote connection default has been bumped up to 12 mbps. The remote (cellular) default is 1 mbps.

How precisely does it work? Does it work like it does now or is there some detection involved?
Because here in Denmark connections are in general very good and 12 mpbs is nothing.

Not a complaint, i really am happy that we are getting work done on this and please keep up the good work!
Would love for the default to be able to be set from the server, that shouldn't be impossible to do.
Client gets a number from server that it sets as default, people can still set their own quality setting in the client to override it.