MP4 chop with new Roku

[user84 46]

Multiple MP4 files I have are choppy upon playback. This does not occur on Amazon fire Stick, mobile, or using the browser. However, they do glitch on Roku. This is yet another issue that is only happening with Roku. 

I purchased a new Roku to remove the possibility that my older Roku was part of the problem. That's clearly not the case. Interestingly, this was not a problem on my old Roku.

Can someone tell me if there known issues with MP4 playback on the Roku 4K stick? I am not interested in posting logs, as nothing ever comes from it.

[speechles 2055]

The sticks have an overheating issue more than the STB boxes. Once overheating there may be playback issues as it is thermal throttling itself.

https://support.roku.com/article/226794787

You can order an HDMI extender free for your Roku. The HDMI extender adds distance between the hot backplate of your TV where it vents heat and the Roku stick.

https://my.roku.com/hdmi

---

Are the mp4 direct playing or transcoding?

Edited July 30, 2024 by speechles

[user84 46]

24 minutes ago, speechles said:

The sticks have an overheating issue more than the STB boxes. Once overheating there may be playback issues as it is thermal throttling itself.

https://support.roku.com/article/226794787

You can order an HDMI extender free for your Roku. The HDMI extender adds distance between the hot backplate of your TV where it vents heat and the Roku stick.

https://my.roku.com/hdmi

---

Are the mp4 direct playing or transcoding?

Thanks for the suggestions. Overheating isn't the issue. I have an extender already, and it's into my AVR. Video is direct playing (2mbs).

[ebr 16169]

Hi.  Our ability to help is very limited if you don't want to share logs.  If the item is direct playing then it would probably come down to either network or possibly frame-rate mismatch or maybe bad timing information in the file itself.

[user84 46]

2 hours ago, ebr said:

Hi.  Our ability to help is very limited if you don't want to share logs.  If the item is direct playing then it would probably come down to either network or possibly frame-rate mismatch or maybe bad timing information in the file itself.

I don't want to sound like a jerk (though I might have already). But each time I go through the trouble of sharing a log file, nothing gets fixed. I have been dealing with Roku issues since I switched to Emby and I have seen zero fixes to my issues, including those that I was told would be added to subsequent updates. Instead, I have had to change what files I work with and subtitles I download, etc. Essentially, I am troubleshooting and fixing my own issues.  

I have no problem knowing that the Dev team isn't going to fix anything. What I have a problem with is being told if I share a log file that will lead to some solution, and then never being given solutions. So...

If I supply a log file, will you commit to looking at it, diagnosing, telling me troubleshooting steps to take (that I will definitely take), and then providing me information about how the issue will be solved?

[ebr 16169]

1 hour ago, Blam84 said:

I have been dealing with Roku issues since I switched to Emby and I have seen zero fixes to my issues, including those that I was told would be added to subsequent updates.

Specific examples?

1 hour ago, Blam84 said:

If I supply a log file, will you commit to looking at it, diagnosing, telling me troubleshooting steps to take (that I will definitely take), and then providing me information about how the issue will be solved?

I can promise we will try to help diagnose it.  I cannot promise we'll be able to fix it because I don't know what the issue is at this point. 

[user84 46]

1 hour ago, ebr said:

Specific examples?

List of unresolved issues:

 

 

I fixed the above issue by getting a Roku 4K+

 

I fixed this one by changing the files I use.

 

A fix was promised that still hasn't been deployed. Or at least, the issue isn't resolved.

Edited July 30, 2024 by Blam84

[user84 46]

1 hour ago, ebr said:

I can promise we will try to help diagnose it.  I cannot promise we'll be able to fix it because I don't know what the issue is at this point. 

Which logs do you need? I will provide them when I have bandwidth

[Happy2Play 9780]

Personally have 4 Roku user and have never had a mp4 issue.  But there are variables with codecs that can be a factor and even subtitle.  So without specific examples and logs one and only guess Roku does not like your media.

[Gilgamesh_48 1240]

11 minutes ago, Happy2Play said:

Personally have 4 Roku user and have never had a mp4 issue.  But there are variables with codecs that can be a factor and even subtitle.  So without specific examples and logs one and only guess Roku does not like your media.

This is very true. I have some (actually most) mp4 files that play wonderfully on all my Rokus but i have a few that take a VERY longtime to load and a couple that stuttered a lot until I reencoded them. There are a number of ways that files can be one thing and actually kind of be another. That is all mp4 files are equal but some are more equal than others.

I am not an expert on file structure but I know that mp4 is a container not a CODEC and the actual content of the file can be very different between two or more mp4s. It is the internals that matter. 
That is why logs are needed and every log from the time of failures is needed. fmpeg and server logs are, probably, the most important but any other logs like hardware detection could have valuable info.

@Blam84The Emby team once found an error for me because they looked at my hardware logs and actually diagnosed a hardware problem that was causing stops and starts on just two of my thousands of movie files. I replaced the offending hardware and, suddenly, the problem files played fine.

Of course I have no idea exactly what was wrong but the fact that replacing one of my network switches fixed the two files that were misbehaving and had no other adverse actions says that the problem was really in the switch. (I had already replaced all the cables in my network.)

My suggestion is to give the Emby developers what they ask for and examine the responses for anything else that might cause the same behavior. In the case of my switch problem Emby suggested cables and even dirty plugs or sockets  or other sources of "noise" or interference in my network and I decided that the switch was also a possibility. When I changed the switch the problem went away but when I put it back the problem reappeared. Said switch has since been tossed out to recycle and my network is happier because of the retirement. 

[ebr 16169]

On the casting issue you declined to provide more details we asked for but I will say that the Roku OS is very stringent on what it will allow with remote control.  If it thinks the traffic is coming from a different network, it won't allow it.

On the playback issue that is still an open issue being looked at - it is something on the server end not the app but it usually only manifests on the Roku because the Roku internal player is very intolerant of anything outside of spec (which is quite likely to be what you are experiencing with your MP4 problem now as well).

The filtering one has slipped through the cracks.  Apologies there.

[speechles 2055]

16 hours ago, Blam84 said:

Video is direct playing (2mbs).

When the "stats for nerds" is enabled the Roku will report dropped frames and stream errors. Usually these are caused by environmental factors, such as poor WiFi signal at that time, or someone literally standing in the way of the signal or something. If they always happen consistently in the same spot is has something to do with how they are encoded. How many audio streams, subtitles, etc are within the file? The MP4 file format doesn't support as many as the MKV file format does. It is hard to pinpoint one reason without seeing the file and looking for issues inside it.

Can you post one of your problem files somewhere so we can find the root cause and reproduce the issue?

 

16 hours ago, Blam84 said:

Video is direct playing (2mbs).

 

Same as what I am playing above at 2mbs. What resolution is your file playing as?

 

Edited July 30, 2024 by speechles

[user84 46]

8 minutes ago, speechles said:

When the "stats for nerds" is enabled the Roku will report dropped frames and stream errors. Usually these are caused by environmental factors, such as poor WiFi signal at that time, or someone literally standing in the way of the signal or something. If they always happen consistently in the same spot is has something to do with how they are encoded. How many audio streams, subtitles, etc are within the file? The MP4 file format doesn't support as many as the MKV file format does. It is hard to pinpoint one reason without seeing the file and looking for issues inside it.

Can you post one of your problem files somewhere so we can find the root cause and reproduce the issue?

Are you asking for an example MP4? If so, let me know the most appropriate way to share that.

[Happy2Play 9780]

2 minutes ago, Blam84 said:

Are you asking for an example MP4? If so, let me know the most appropriate way to share that.

That may help assuming the file will do the same on some else's Roku.  But first would need media info and playback methods.

[speechles 2055]

14 minutes ago, Blam84 said:

Are you asking for an example MP4? If so, let me know the most appropriate way to share that.

Yes. An example that would show us the same issues. Usually Google drive or Dropbox. But any service that allows you to share the file with us would work. Thanks.

[speechles 2055]

@Blam84Thank you for the sample. I see exactly what you mean on my Roku 4K streaming stick 3810X. The stutter isn't caused by the frame drop or stream errors. It is just straight up playing it incorrectly.

Update: It is the tags/metadata embedded in the MP4. According to Roku tags/metadata are not allowed in MP4. Directly muxing this into an MKV solved the stuttering. There is no need to remove the tags when this is inside an MKV.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roku#Feature_comparison

Edited July 30, 2024 by speechles

[Happy2Play 9780]

Another thing Roku itself does not like.

But lot of mp4 embedded metadata media and have not seen an issue unless this is a specific Roku device issue.  But have been remuxing them as Emby reads the embedded metadata instead of provider metadata creating conflicts.

[user84 46]

1 hour ago, speechles said:

@Blam84Thank you for the sample. I see exactly what you mean on my Roku 4K streaming stick 3810X. The stutter isn't caused by the frame drop or stream errors. It is just straight up playing it incorrectly.

Update: It is the tags/metadata embedded in the MP4. According to Roku tags/metadata are not allowed in MP4. Directly muxing this into an MKV solved the stuttering. There is no need to remove the tags when this is inside an MKV.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roku#Feature_comparison

Great! Thanks so much for the feedback.  Two questions: 

1. If I play this on Plex, would I get the same issue? If not, why not?

2. Is the only solution to remux this into MKV or find a new file?

 

[speechles 2055]

10 minutes ago, Blam84 said:

Great! Thanks so much for the feedback.  Two questions: 

1. If I play this on Plex, would I get the same issue? If not, why not?

2. Is the only solution to remux this into MKV or find a new file?

 

1. Yes. The same Roku having the problem with Emby would have the same problem with Roku Media Player, Plex or JellyFin.

https://exiftool.org/forum/index.php?topic=11977.msg64661#msg64661

The older Roku was more lenient about the specification. You could even play 10bit color h264 directly and get horrible colors but it direct played. Since firmware 11.5 they have added new methods to read capabilities and have deprecated the older methods. It makes it easier to detect what a Roku will play, but the Roku is now much more strict on newer hardware about what it will play and will now actively refuse to play some material that could be direct played before.

It would be better if it were in an MKV since any version of Roku could then play it. Or you would have to see if you could strip the tags without having to reencode the entire MP4 which should be possible. I just am not that familiar with removing tags from MP4 since I always convert them to MKV when it isn't DolbyVision.

Edited July 31, 2024 by speechles

[user84 46]

4 minutes ago, speechles said:

1. Yes. The same Roku having the problem with Emby would have the same problem with Roku Media Player, Plex or JellyFin.

https://exiftool.org/forum/index.php?topic=11977.msg64661#msg64661

The older Roku was more lenient about the specification. You could even play 10bit color h264 directly and get horrible colors but it direct played. Since firmware 11.5 they have added new methods to read capabilities and have deprecated the older methods. It makes it easier to detect what a Roku will play, but the Roku is now much more strict on newer hardware about what it will play and will now actively refuse to play some material that could be direct played before.

It would be better if it were in an MKV since any version of Roku could then play it. Or you would have to see if you could strip the tags without having to reencode the entire MP4 which should be possible. I just am not that familiar with removing tags from MP4 since I always convert them to MKV when it isn't DolbyVision.

VICTORY! I'm not super pumped about the answer, and I've got a lot of work to do with some MP4s in my library. But at least I have an answer. I very much appreciate the follow-through, and I very much appreciate having an answer to this question. Thank you for your patience on this. THANK YOU!

[Happy2Play 9780]

I just drop mine in mp3tag and remove tags.

[Neminem 1518]

I use Tdarr to bulk clean media files.

[user84 46]

Last question to anyone still listening - I just remuxed MANY files from MP4 to MKV to fix this issue. I have re-scanned my library, rebuilt my collections, and fixed all of my media.

What should I do now to ensure a clean library? Restart? Run some kind of utility or scan? Re-backup?

Just want to make sure I am dotting my I's and crossing my T's.

Edited August 1, 2024 by Blam84

[chrisrobbins1970 82]

I had this issue with many mp4 files and had to remux using mkvtoolnix. After that zero issues.