Limit TOTAL upload speed on all remote users

[ellisd4 73]

Is it possible to limit the TOTAL upload speed for all users when streaming remotely?  For instance, I have a relatively low upload bandwidth from my ISP.  I want to make sure ALL users stay under this limit, not just individual streams.  Right now I only see the per-stream bitrate limit in Network Settings. I have it set at 4 Mbps in the case multiple users stream at a time, but would be nice to set at my actual upload speed to reduce transcoding when unnecessary. 

[ebr 16185]

Hi.  You can use that existing setting along with the setting to limit the number of concurrent streams to kind of create the same effect.

The problem with trying to make a "total" max bitrate is what happens when that is reached and, how is the bandwidth doled out before it is reached?

[neik 873]

57 minutes ago, ebr said:

You can use that existing setting along with the setting to limit the number of concurrent streams to kind of create the same effect.

It doesn't as I don't really care if one user is taking up the bandwidth with 1 stream or 4 streams, the system just needs to adhere to the overall limit so that none stream struggles due to bandwidth.

And that is currently not possible with Emby at least the last time I checked in with you guys (few months ago).

[pwhodges 2012]

The problem is that Emby does not adapt its speed after a stream is initially set up, which means that later streams may not be allowed enough bandwidth because earlier ones can't give it up; i.e. the sharing won't be fair.

Paul

[ebr 16185]

Just now, pwhodges said:

the sharing won't be fair.

But it would be if you set, say the per-stream limit to 5 and max streams to 4.  That would ensure good streaming for 4 devices assuming a cap of 20mb/s.

If, instead, you just set a global cap of 20 now you could have support for only one device - the first one who may grab all 20mb available.

[ellisd4 73]

37 minutes ago, ebr said:

But it would be if you set, say the per-stream limit to 5 and max streams to 4.  That would ensure good streaming for 4 devices assuming a cap of 20mb/s.

If, instead, you just set a global cap of 20 now you could have support for only one device - the first one who may grab all 20mb available.

True, but you would force a transcode when not needed. If the first stream at 20mbps was at 18mpbs it wouldn’t need transcoding, but the second would transcode down to 2mbps.  Then as content ended and restarted the bandwidth per stream would adjust accordingly. 

[ebr 16185]

I would think with limited bandwidth you'd want to be sure and support more than one device but everyone's situation is different, I guess.  Keep in mind that, if you had a particular user who you wanted to have higher bandwidth, you could have that.  I actually have this same situation with only 20 up but two kids and a couple friends and myself who may be remote.  So I give myself a larger bandwidth cap than the others to be sure I get good bandwidth when away but be sure that the others still can stream if they want to.

[ellisd4 73]

1 hour ago, ebr said:

I would think with limited bandwidth you'd want to be sure and support more than one device but everyone's situation is different, I guess.  Keep in mind that, if you had a particular user who you wanted to have higher bandwidth, you could have that.  I actually have this same situation with only 20 up but two kids and a couple friends and myself who may be remote.  So I give myself a larger bandwidth cap than the others to be sure I get good bandwidth when away but be sure that the others still can stream if they want to.

I'm dealing with only 8mbps up  So I want to provide all 8... My in-laws use my server daily, but my parents will find the app and binge a series in a night and not watch anything for 2 months... so hard to do the limiting that way.  Most of the TV Shows in my library are 6-8 mpbs bitrate, so I'd prefer not to throttle if I can.  I do have my kids limited at 1mbps... because they really can't tell the difference. 

Edited April 17, 2023 by ellisd4

[GrimReaper 4740]

7 minutes ago, ellisd4 said:

My in-laws use my server daily, but my parents will find the app and binge a series in a night and not watch anything for 2 months... so hard to do the limiting that way.  Most of the TV Shows in my library are 6-8 mpbs bitrate, so I'd prefer not to throttle if I can. 

I understand what you're after, but with current transcoding logic that simply wouldn't give you the results desired, adaptive streaming would be a must for any meaningful load/bitrate balancing: in your scenario, if your inlaws were watching something using your typical item bitrate (i.e. ~8 Mbps), your parents, as seldom as they watch anything, wouldnt even be able to start a playback session? Wouldn't ensuring at least few limited streams be a better solution currently? 

[neik 873]

@ellisd4, lend your support over here for adaptive streaming:

This would be such a massive improvement for all those that have HW transcoding in place and limited bandwidth.

Also for those with varying bandwidth, e.g. mobile data.

 

[ebr 16185]

Just a note - adaptive streaming logic is driven by the receiving app so it wouldn't really help this situation.

[GrimReaper 4740]

1 minute ago, ebr said:

Just a note - adaptive streaming logic is driven by the receiving app so it wouldn't really help this situation.

If it were to ever be implemented, don't see why the server control couldn't be introduced as well, as the mechanics would already be there, its just different set of control instructions. 

[ellisd4 73]

2 hours ago, GrimReaper said:

I understand what you're after, but with current transcoding logic that simply wouldn't give you the results desired, adaptive streaming would be a must for any meaningful load/bitrate balancing: in your scenario, if your inlaws were watching something using your typical item bitrate (i.e. ~8 Mbps), your parents, as seldom as they watch anything, wouldnt even be able to start a playback session? Wouldn't ensuring at least few limited streams be a better solution currently? 

Absolutely correct... What I'm looking for essentially, and not trying to compare products, is this from Plex:

In this instance, ALL streams can consume 8 mbps total.  If one stream is running at 7.5 mpbs, the next stream gets .5 mbps.  It seems to work out pretty well in my use case.  It does adjust accordingly in practice.  You can limit entire internet upload speed, and an each stream bitrate. 

Edited April 17, 2023 by ellisd4

[neik 873]

Interesting, didn't even know they had that as an option.

Never dove deep into Plex and won't as I don't like their interface and especially where they headed / are heading.

[ellisd4 73]

51 minutes ago, neik said:

Never dove deep into Plex and won't as I don't like their interface and especially where they headed / are heading.

Yeah, that’s the reason why I’m moving away from them. Honestly, the UI in Emby is far superior anything out there, and I’ve seen it get better and better the past 18 months I’ve been using it.   Not sure why it’s taking me so long to complete the migration.

[ebr 16185]

15 hours ago, ellisd4 said:

In this instance, ALL streams can consume 8 mbps total.  If one stream is running at 7.5 mpbs, the next stream gets .5 mbps.  It seems to work out pretty well in my use case.  It does adjust accordingly in practice

But you would get the exact same behavior from Emby by simply not setting a limit.

[neik 873]

1 hour ago, ebr said:

But you would get the exact same behavior from Emby by simply not setting a limit.

That would cause buffering, wouldn't it?

On his example stream 1 has 7,5 mpbs and let's assume stream 2 has >0,5 mpbs which leads to > 8 mpbs upload required although only 8 is available.
How would Emby avoid buffering?

Or am I overlooking something?

[ebr 16185]

Assuming the app is set to "Auto" it should figure out that it needs to transcode.  However, that is so severely limited that it probably wouldn't work out all that well without limiting the streams at the user level.

[neik 873]

Besides "auto" being more a hit and miss than a really reliable solution (even in my local network) having a global limit would avoid the admin to limit on user level as the global limit would take care of that no mother if the same user is starting two streams or if two users are starting a stream each.

Just my 2cents though as this is currently not really affecting me..

[ebr 16185]

19 hours ago, neik said:

even in my local network

The "Auto" setting does not even look at bandwidth on your local network.  It only looks at capabilities.

[neik 873]

2 hours ago, ebr said:

The "Auto" setting does not even look at bandwidth on your local network.  It only looks at capabilities.

Yeah, should have been more precise:
Local network (Wi-Fi@home) with remote server is what I meant.