Need Help With Forced Subtitles

[musicmafia 38]

I love Emby but I'm not very tech savvy, so here goes:

I've spent months acquiring hundreds of movie files and I am starting to notice a lot of the files either do not have (or are not showing an option to play) English subtitles ONLY during the parts of the movie where people may be speaking another language other than english.

I am told this is called forced English subtitles. If there is a dropdown option to choose "forced" English, it works fine. But with some movies, no dropdown or subtitle options are shown.

Reading about this it seems some files have these forced subs built in and others require external sub files, so I have downloaded many external sub files (most seem to be SRT format). In all the places I've looked for these files, I rarely see any files marked "forced" and so far all the srt files I've downloaded keep the subtitles on screen for the whole movie, even when English is being spoken. I tried adding ".forced" to the file name and that does not work. I also make sure the external sub files are named exactly to match the movie file. 

In my Emby subtitle settings, I have tried Default, Smart and Only Forced and none of those options solve the problems. 

I read the emby subtitle page and it wasn't much help for this issue or perhaps I didn't understand it properly.

If I was watching on my computer, I suppose my workaround would be to simply click the Eng subtitles on when needed and turn them off again, BUT I am streaming (via Firestick) to my TV downstairs and the playback interface is different and I have to stop the movie,  go back to the movie home page, turn the subs on, then back to playing the movie, then the whole process again to turn them off, every time. There's got to be a better way!!

Here are some screen shots. 

Can anyone tell me if I am doing something wrong or how I can go about getting forced eng subs to work on all files? Thanks!

[Luke 42077]

Quote

 I tried adding ".forced" to the file name and that does not work.

HI, that's because the content of the subtitle file is not actually just forced subtitles, it's all subtitles. The reason for naming it .forced is simply to tell Emby Server what it is.

So it sounds like you want to try and acquire more subtitle files that are actually forced subtitles. 

[musicmafia 38]

3 minutes ago, Luke said:

HI, that's because the content of the subtitle file is not actually just forced subtitles, it's all subtitles. The reason for naming it .forced is simply to tell Emby Server what it is.

So it sounds like you want to try and acquire more subtitle files that are actually forced subtitles. 

Thanks Luke! Yes, I am trying to get all movies (that contain some non-english scenes) to play forced eng subtitles only during those scenes.

I don't have a great overall understanding of how subtitles and files work. Are some forced subs already built into the audio tracks? Because some play fine without doing anything manually.

Is it common for movie files (especially of older movies) to come without the sub files necessary to play forced as they would on DVD or BR?

Is the best solution to acquire separate "forced" sub files? I've got 900 movies and not sure how many of my movies need this. I've been to several sub sites (some looked kind of hinky) and very few of their files seem to be marked as forced sub files. One site had 7 different srt eng sub files for my movie and after downloading and naming them all, none were forced, they all stayed on full time, even when english was spoken. Am I just looking in the wrong places?

Thanks for your help as always!

[Luke 42077]

Forced subtitle tracks are the same thing as normal subtitle tracks except that they only contain foreign language parts and are specifically marked as forced.

Quote

Is the best solution to acquire separate "forced" sub files?

Quote

Am I just looking in the wrong places?

For the ones that don't have them embedded already, yes that's your best bet. Our subtitle download features can help you download forced subtitles. There are filters on the download features to indicate exactly what you want.

[musicmafia 38]

Thanks, Does the Emby subtitle download feature have access to different sites with more forced downloads versus me searching the internet? Because most of the sub files I've found online don't seem to have many (if any) Forced options.

I just tried the Emby download feature. No forced eng subs were found in the first two movies I tried, but sure enough it found two forced sub files in the third movie I tried. I had previously not found any forced sub files for that movie online, so I was thrilled to find them and more thrilled that they worked with no glitches or sync issues (as I've had with some other downloaded subs). 

Is it true that I have to rename the downloaded sub files to exactly match the file name of the movie? When I first downloaded the emby sub files, they displayed as Forced English in the emby dropdown box, but after I changed the file name to match the movie file name, it just displays as UND SRT.

For the movies where Emby cannot locate forced subs, where is the best place for me to look for those? As mentioned, I haven't had much luck with the few sites I tried and some seemed a little sketchy. Any recommendations or advice? 

 

 

[pwhodges 2012]

The file name should match the movie name, but with the addition of extra extensions which describe it.  e.g. moviename.en.srt to specify the English language (eng also works).  You have "UND" because no language is specified.

Following the language with .forced - as in moviename.en.forced.srt tells programs using it that these are forced subtitles.

Many standalone players will also recognise these conventions.

Paul

[rbjtech 5284]

It doesn't actually matter where the .forced. is - so moviename.en.forced.srt and moviename.forced.en.srt will both work.

Unfortunately, the majority of available media files have very mixed standards for subtitles - with many using 'Default' on subtitles (meaning they play whether you want them or not) so I personally set all my clients to 'forced only' and always use external srt files only.

As to sources, them emby itself has a 'forced' option to download subs, if you use the *arr suite, then Bazarr is another option but at the end of the day, unless the source Provider has correctly constructed the file (with 'forced' flags in the MKV etc - in which can you can just script to extract them..) but if not, then it's a very manual task.

Applications like Subtitle Edit are extremely handy to check subtitles, as it shows the sub stream and video stream side by side - and allows you to edit/re-sync on demand.

btw - there is also a downloadable list (do a search on google) that somebody has created of about 1000 films with 'forced/alien/foreign' subs - this may get you off to a good start identifying them. 

In emby (library settings per library)

Edited February 25, 2023 by rbjtech

[Spaceboy 2573]

if you want to be doing anything more complex than single language subtitles then bazaar should be used.

[musicmafia 38]

Thanks for all the help!

So if my movie file name is "Aliens (1986) Special Edition 1080p BluRayx 265 HEVC 10bit DTS 5.1 Ch.mkv" the sub file only needs to be named "Aliens.forced.en.srt" without the spaces and other stuff?

 

[Dickydodah! 154]

Aliens (1986) Special Edition 1080p BluRayx 265 HEVC 10bit DTS 5.1 Ch.forced.en.srt is the correct way I believe.

edited to include the en 

Edited February 25, 2023 by Dickydodah!

[musicmafia 38]

Probably a stupid question, but just to be clear, adding "forced.en" or "en.forced" to the srt file will only result in forced subs if the srt file itself contains forced subs?

If "forced.en" is added to a regular srt sub file, I presume it won't change it to forced function?

[Dickydodah! 154]

Correct, the SRT file is what it is, Full or default, Forced or there is sometimes a third which is SDH. Subtitles for the deaf and hard of hearing (SDH)

Edited February 25, 2023 by Dickydodah!

[Dickydodah! 154]

If you use a text editor (Notepad if you are on Windows) you can see the subtitles and easily tell which type they are. If I ever download a separate SRT file I normally open them like this to check that there is no advertising in them and also to remove it if there is. If you are feeling mischievous you could even add your own text very simply 

[musicmafia 38]

12 minutes ago, Dickydodah! said:

If you use a text editor (Notepad if you are on Windows) you can see the subtitles and easily tell which type they are. If I ever download a separate SRT file I normally open them like this to check that there is no advertising in them and also to remove it if there is. If you are feeling mischievous you could even add your own text very simply 

Wow!!! I had no idea. I didn't even know I could open a srt file. Here's one I just opened with Notepad. So I can remove anything that looks like ads or anything not in the original script just by deleting that number and section? AND I can make changes to the script? I could see having some fun with that!!!!!

 

 

[musicmafia 38]

10 hours ago, rbjtech said:

 

In emby (library settings per library)

 

So I should choose "forced subtitles only" in the library settings, if I only want subtitles when english isn't being spoken?

[Dickydodah! 154]

The subs downloaded from OpenSubtitles always seem to have have adverts at the beginning and end so just delete these and you're set. You can delete the whole entry including the index, which is 1 for the example you gave. I never found that it mattered. You can just delete the text and leave the index and timing as is and that works as well.

If you feel like being really fussy you can change the timing if you want the Subs on screen longer for example however I believe that there are subtitle editors available that would be much better for that.

[Dickydodah! 154]

15 minutes ago, musicmafia said:

So I should choose "forced subtitles only" in the library settings, if I only want subtitles when english isn't being spoken?

That's correct but I often found that you quite often get no subs automatically downloaded as the file naming on the download sites is not always 100%.

In the Subtitle section for the whole server choose "only forced subtitles" and any forced subs will automatically be played. If you then get a movie or TV show that has foreign language but no subs you can stop playback and search for subs using the three dot menu in the episode screen. Have a play around with the settings and the downloading and it all will make sense. If you don't select forced subs on the download screen you can see all the possible downloads.

I forgot to say that I believe if you subscribe to OpenSubtitles you don't get the Ads but I never tried it myself.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Dickydodah!

[Dickydodah! 154]

There are four extra plugins for subtitle downloading in the catalogue if you'd like to try them but I'd wait until you get to grips with your current setup first 

[musicmafia 38]

16 minutes ago, Dickydodah! said:

That's correct but I often found that you quite often get no subs automatically downloaded as the file naming on the download sites is not always 100%.

In the Subtitle section for the whole server choose "only forced subtitles" and any forced subs will automatically be played. If you then get a movie or TV show that has foreign language but no subs you can stop playback and search for subs using the three dot menu in the episode screen. Have a play around with the settings and the downloading and it all will make sense. If you don't select forced subs on the download screen you can see all the possible downloads.

Thanks! So you are suggesting the following settings for me (or do I have it backward lol)?

 

Edited February 25, 2023 by musicmafia

[Dickydodah! 154]

First screenshot 

Second one I have forced subtitles only selected and require a hash match. I assume you have English ticked.

The hash match makes sure that the subs are exactly right for your file but the downside is that less matches are made. I preferred it this way as out of sync subs are more annoying than no subs and I can manually download anyway.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Dickydodah!

[Dickydodah! 154]

Just to add another layer  depending on where you get your files from many have embedded subs that will be correctly in sync. If you download an external SRT this will take precedence over the internal sub. There is another setting in the library "Skip if the video already contains embedded subtitles" which I guess would sort this but I've never used it.

Most files that originated on Netflix have subs in loads of languages as well as forced and SDH which I've just learned are sometimes called HI (Hearing impaired)

I spent ages trying all sorts of stuff to get my subtitles correct and then realised that only a handful of files in 3500 actually had/needed forced English subs so now don't do much to curate them and just download manually if needed and available.

[musicmafia 38]

50 minutes ago, Dickydodah! said:

Just to add another layer  depending on where you get your files from many have embedded subs that will be correctly in sync. If you download an external SRT this will take precedence over the internal sub. There is another setting in the library "Skip if the video already contains embedded subtitles" which I guess would sort this but I've never used it.

Most files that originated on Netflix have subs in loads of languages as well as forced and SDH which I've just learned are sometimes called HI (Hearing impaired)

I spent ages trying all sorts of stuff to get my subtitles correct and then realised that only a handful of files in 3500 actually had/needed forced English subs so now don't do much to curate them and just download manually if needed and available.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I've noticed. many of the files are good to go with embedded subs that playback properly. I've been in "acquisition" mode for months and months (and haven't had the time to check the files in real time) but now that I am starting to spend more time actually watching the movies, I am stumbling into some that don't have the forced subs and that started my journey to try and find relatively easy solutions.

 

You mentioned plugins earlier. So far, I've only used whatever comes pre-loaded by default. I did see the catalog with the other subtitle plugin options, but I don't know if installing or using those requires more knowledge than I have at this point. 

 

I've also heard a lot of people mentioning Bazaar. I went to that website and didnt really get it. Sounds like a third party app and I'm not sure how easy that is to use either. It may be above my pay grade, but I have learned a lot in this forum thanks to you and all the other people in this community who have been so helpful. Thanks again.

[Dickydodah! 154]

Plugins are really easy to install and use, also really easy to uninstall if you need to. The subtitle plugins essentially add more download options in the library configuration.

Your question prompted me to take another look at Bazaar and whilst its not that complicated you do need a reasonable understanding to use it. I already use Sonarr and Radarr so it would be quite easy for me but I reckon it's unnecessary for the number of subs I would need. Manual downloading is very very easy and I only need to do it once in a blue moon 

It's really easy to start getting obsessive over getting your libraries perfect, I've been there 

[musicmafia 38]

I might give those other plugins a shot. Should I just add all the other four sub plugins, since that sounds like it would give me the most options?

Hopefully that will help me find more forced sub files through Emby, but there are still some files that I'm not finding anywhere. I've googled and found sites offering sub files but not many marked forced. 

I hear what you are saying about the quest to get it perfect. Sounds like you have a massive collection (3500 ).  I'm going from an old library of around 900 DVDs and blurays to trying to have everything on emby. Unfortunately as I was acquiring files, I gave away all my DVDs (which might have had rippable embedded subs, but too late now). I still have hundreds of blurays but no BR ripper at this time.

 

[musicmafia 38]

13 hours ago, rbjtech said:

.....btw - there is also a downloadable list (do a search on google) that somebody has created of about 1000 films with 'forced/alien/foreign' subs - this may get you off to a good start identifying them....

 

Thanks. I think I found the file you are talking about and so far it has not been very good news for me. Turns out a LOT of the files I have acquired (but had not yet watched on Emby), require forced subs that I do not have. I haven't even gotten out of the movies that start with "A".

Ex: I just played back Air Force One after seeing it on the list. Has tons of parts in Russian and my only choices are no subs or full time. I was hoping it was just going to be a few movies, but looks like I've got my work cut out for me, trying to find forced sub files for a lot more movies than I thought.