confusion about live tv settings

[Spaceboy 2573]

56 minutes ago, ebr said:

In the TV app, if you select one of those when not in seek mode, it  offers you the option to switch it.

as indicated, this doesnt work for me. or rather i gave up waiting after a minute or so.

56 minutes ago, ebr said:

But, for how long?  And, when you re-start, there is no way to catch back up to the live point or even know where the live point actually is.  Without seek - pause can get you in trouble IMO.

as long as you can and then unpause. its most likely that you would not want to catch up.

the simplest answers are usually the best  

[ebr 16169]

14 minutes ago, Spaceboy said:

as long as you can and then unpause. its most likely that you would not want to catch up

I think it is highly likely that, once the next commercial hits, you will want to ff through it.  And, when you try and can't we pretty much have to just deny you the ability because we can no longer switch to seek mode because that will immediately put you to the live point and there is no telling how much of the program you will then miss with no way to get it back.

To me, that is a bad solution and offering you the option to switch into a seeking mode as soon as you wish to pause is a much better one.

16 minutes ago, Spaceboy said:

as indicated, this doesnt work for me. or rather i gave up waiting after a minute or so.

Have you ever reported that?  Have you disabled any transcoding features?  We should look at why that is the case because there haven't been any reports of a problem with this that I'm aware of.

[CBers 7450]

2 minutes ago, ebr said:

I think it is highly likely that, once the next commercial hits, you will want to ff through it.  And, when you try and can't we pretty much have to just deny you the ability because we can no longer switch to seek mode because that will immediately put you to the live point and there is no telling how much of the program you will then miss with no way to get it back.

To me, that is a bad solution and offering you the option to switch into a seeking mode as soon as you wish to pause is a much better one.

Ignore disk space for the time being, but is there an option within Emby to have all Live TV record during normal "live" playback, so that this all becomes a moot subject?

My TiVo box does exactly that and only has a 1Tb hard drive inside it.

Just asking.
 

[ebr 16169]

16 minutes ago, CBers said:

Ignore disk space for the time being, but is there an option within Emby to have all Live TV record during normal "live" playback, so that this all becomes a moot subject?

There is in this app - by playing in seek mode.  

16 minutes ago, CBers said:

My TiVo box does exactly that and only has a 1Tb hard drive inside it.

TiVo invented "time-shifting" live TV so their design from the very beginning has been that it records everything and you are actually watching the recording all the time.  They have a very sophisticated mechanism for managing this and the disc space.  As I said, they really invented this whole concept.

Edit - [facepalm] Ignore if you read the previous version of this message.  My test stream was remuxing....

[ebr 16169]

13 minutes ago, ebr said:

There is in this app - by playing in seek mode. 

And, that is the default.  You have to go and enable Direct Play Live TV to make it so that you cannot seek.

[CBers 7450]

6 minutes ago, ebr said:

And, that is the default.  You have to go and enable Direct Play Live TV to make it so that you cannot seek.

OK, might try that later.

Don't watch Live TV "live" that much in Emby, as it's very slow compared to other apps to change channels etc, but I might now I know how easy it is to seek/pause etc.
 

[Spaceboy 2573]

37 minutes ago, ebr said:

Have you ever reported that?  Have you disabled any transcoding features?  We should look at why that is the case because there haven't been any reports of a problem with this that I'm aware of.

no probably not... nothing transcoding wise is disabled. i assume you want me to try to switch to seek mode, leave it for a while and send you a log?

but just for my info, what are your expectations on how long it should take? and how long does it take for a seek enabled stream to start from the guide for you?

[ebr 16169]

5 minutes ago, Spaceboy said:

i assume you want me to try to switch to seek mode, leave it for a while and send you a log?

Yes, that would be perfect.

5 minutes ago, Spaceboy said:

what are your expectations on how long it should take? and how long does it take for a seek enabled stream to start from the guide for you?

If I disable the direct play option my channels tune in about 8-10 seconds.  Switching playback from direct to seek mode takes about 15 seconds.

[horstepipe 422]

Hey

so if the stream would be delivered via hls directly, pause would work in direct mode?

https://iptv.community/threads/mpegts-or-hls.13264/

[ebr 16169]

2 hours ago, horstepipe said:

Hey

so if the stream would be delivered via hls directly, pause would work in direct mode?

https://iptv.community/threads/mpegts-or-hls.13264/

No because all live TV streams go through your server and trying to take HLS and deliver it "statically" through the server probably isn't going to work.

[horstepipe 422]

Sorry not sure if I understand.

if the streams goes to server via hls, emby changes it to ts and if transcoding is enabled and direct playback disabled, it reconverts it back to hls…?

[ebr 16169]

32 minutes ago, horstepipe said:

if the streams goes to server via hls, emby changes it to ts and if transcoding is enabled and direct playback disabled, it reconverts it back to hls…?

HLS and TS are two different things.   HLS is a Live Streaming protocol while TS is a container (albeit a very rudimentary one).  The Emby Server isn't really designed to accept a live streaming protocol and then pass that on to a different device.

TS is actually the container we use within HLS.  Your provider is giving you the option to either deliver the streams as raw TS (transport streams) or via HLS (as a m3u playlist).  The latter is only really very useful if the stream is being directly consumed by the playback device.

Before you ask the next question  no, we cannot just allow the app to directly consume the stream from the provider - at least not in any of the apps in an app store.

[pünktchen 1409]

31 minutes ago, ebr said:

we cannot just allow the app to directly consume the stream from the provider - at least not in any of the apps in an app store

Why not? There are hundreds of iptv apps in the app stores doing that.

[ebr 16169]

1 hour ago, pünktchen said:

Why not? There are hundreds of iptv apps in the app stores doing that.

There are probably that many because they have to keep creating them each time one is banned.

We simply cannot take that risk as a company or product.

[pünktchen 1409]

If Kodi can survive in the store, then there's no risk for Emby at all.

[ebr 16169]

53 minutes ago, pünktchen said:

If Kodi can survive in the store, then there's no risk for Emby at all.

They were banned from Amazon - for this very reason.  It wasn't something they were actually doing themselves but what others were using the platform to accomplish.

[pünktchen 1409]

I don't think they were banned because they don't follow the app store rules. More likely is some big contend provider requested a take down and because of the bad press. This can in theory also happen to Emby apps today. Because you can watch content you haven't obtained legally. This is true for every media player. Or Kodi is just blocked by Amazon because you can watch Amazon content in Kodi without seeing all those paid suggestions, that's Amazons business model.

[neik 873]

On 1/4/2022 at 2:53 PM, ebr said:

In the TV app, if you select one of those when not in seek mode, it  offers you the option to switch it.

Yepp, you're right. ATV doesn't show the seek buttons but the mobile app does -> this should be unified in to removing the seek buttons on the mobile app for TS streams as they don't do anything really.

On 1/4/2022 at 2:53 PM, ebr said:

But, for how long?  And, when you re-start, there is no way to catch back up to the live point or even know where the live point actually is.  Without seek - pause can get you in trouble IMO.

I don't know yet, I will give it a try and report back.
Anyway, if the one app does have this the others should as well. Emby apps should behave the same across all platforms, especially ATV and mobile as they base on the same player.

[horstepipe 422]

16 hours ago, ebr said:

HLS and TS are two different things.   HLS is a Live Streaming protocol while TS is a container (albeit a very rudimentary one).  The Emby Server isn't really designed to accept a live streaming protocol and then pass that on to a different device.

TS is actually the container we use within HLS.  Your provider is giving you the option to either deliver the streams as raw TS (transport streams) or via HLS (as a m3u playlist).  The latter is only really very useful if the stream is being directly consumed by the playback device.

Before you ask the next question  no, we cannot just allow the app to directly consume the stream from the provider - at least not in any of the apps in an app store.

thanks for that explanation!

[neik 873]

On 1/4/2022 at 2:53 PM, ebr said:

But, for how long?  And, when you re-start, there is no way to catch back up to the live point or even know where the live point actually is.  Without seek - pause can get you in trouble IMO.

Just tested this in the LG app:

I paused for about 5 min and was able to resume for about 3 min then I tried to fast forward and there I noticed the skip buttons don't really do what they are supposed to but they just jump to the end of the stream no matter what I do (skip back or forward).

So, for me

1. pausing works just fine

2. the skip buttons need to be removed for these type of streams on LG and mobile app.

[ebr 16169]

4 hours ago, neik said:

Just tested this in the LG app

That is using an entirely different player.  Can you please test with the standard Android app on the TV device?

[ebr 16169]

4 hours ago, neik said:

then I tried to fast forward and there I noticed the skip buttons don't really do what they are supposed to but they just jump to the end of the stream no matter what I do (skip back or forward)

If I was watching a football game or anything I really cared about, I'd be pissed if that happened - and there was no way for me to know it was going to happen when I paused.  My normal assumption when pausing would be that I could seek later.

4 hours ago, neik said:

the skip buttons need to be removed for these type of streams on LG and mobile app

I contend that, instead, they need to allow you to switch to a mode that will allow you to seek when you attempt to use them.  Otherwise, you just go on forever believing that Emby has no ability to seek live streams.