confusion about live tv settings

[horstepipe 422]

Hello

could anybody please explain what exactly are these to settings in client change/do?

direct play live tv

allow video stream copy

If I do not allow the first one, playback doesn't start. For the second one, there doesn't seem to be a difference whether it is enabled or not...?

If a channel is being played back, a *.ts file is being stored at emby's transcoding path. This file is getting bigger and bigger as long as the stream plays back. Although I am not able to pause a live tv stream. If I try, client (android tv) says me this:
 

Switch playback mode?
Currently direct playing live tv. Cannot pause. Would you like to switch to live seek mode?

 

So I'm wondering what the file is being created for at all (why is it getting bigger and bigger).

Edited December 14, 2021 by horstepipe

[horstepipe 422]

1 minute ago, horstepipe said:

Hello

could anybody please explain what exactly are these to settings in client change/do?

direct play live tv

allow video stream copy

If I do not allow the first one, playback doesn't start. For the second one, there doesn't seem to be a difference whether it is enabled or not...?

If a channel is being played back, a *.ts file is being stored at emby's transcoding path. This file is getting bigger and bigger as long as the stream plays back. Although I am not able to pause a live tv stream. If I try, client (android tv) says me this:
 

Switch playback mode?
Currently direct playing live tv. Cannot pause. Would you like to switch to live seek mode?

If I press yes the stream quits. Guess this is because I disabled transcoding?

So I'm wondering what the file is being created for at all (why is it getting bigger and bigger) if I am not able to pause the stream...?

 

[ebr 16169]

50 minutes ago, horstepipe said:

Guess this is because I disabled transcoding?

Yes, that is the root of all your issues I would assume.

[horstepipe 422]

There are no real issues. I’m just wondering why pause does not work although emby server saves the whole stream.

why do I have to enable transcode if the stream works fine without - just to enable pause?

[horstepipe 422]

Ok if I think about it, this is probably because a .ts stream can’t be thread properly?

[ebr 16169]

What happens if you re-enable transcoding?

[Carlo 4560]

@horstepipe How are you making out?
Have your figured out the settings that work best for you yet?
If not let us know what clients you're using as well as the hardware/OS your running Emby Server on.
Also if you have a GPU or Intel QuickSync available.

Thanks

[horstepipe 422]

Sorry forgot about that topic, will check it out today again.

[Luke 42077]

@horstepipe How are you making out?

[horstepipe 422]

With transcoding enabled pausing works as expected. Although this doesn’t answer any of my questions

[ebr 16169]

The "Allow video stream copy" option is probably not needed anymore.  If you disable it, then the system will not allow a simple remux - it wil force a transcode (will not allow the video to just copy the stream).  That was added when we were having problems with certain UK-based live TV streams but I think we've tackled those issues now in our Exo mods.

[horstepipe 422]

okay thanks.

and Emby server needs to remux a .ts file to handle pausing etc. I guess? So the option in client to direct play .ts files doesn't apply for that / has nothing to do with it?

[ebr 16169]

10 minutes ago, horstepipe said:

and Emby server needs to remux a .ts file to handle pausing etc

Not necessarily.  That's why the option exists.  Some TS files can be seeked when direct played.  Live TV streams however cannot.

[neik 873]

7 hours ago, ebr said:

Not necessarily.  That's why the option exists.  Some TS files can be seeked when direct played.  Live TV streams however cannot.

ebr, one question:

Is this limitation due to technical restrictions or is it simply not implemented within Emby (server/client)?

[ebr 16169]

A Transport Stream is not designed for seeking.  It has none of the index information that other true containers have for that purpose.  So seeking is implemented using some "guessing" techniques within the player.  This is only possible if you have the entire file upon which to base those guesses.  Sometimes that guessing doesn't work very well but it probably should for most files.

To enable seeking in live TS we deliver it via HLS (Http Live Streaming) which is designed just for this.

[neik 873]

6 minutes ago, ebr said:

To enable seeking in live TS we deliver it via HLS (Http Live Streaming) which is designed just for this.

Hence, the remux when enabling seeking.

Got it, thank you!  

[neik 873]

@ebr, why is the Mobile and LG app able to pause and go back and forth on a LiveTV TS stream, when it technically shouldn't be able to?

On ATV this only works when direct streaming instead of direct playing. 

[ebr 16169]

42 minutes ago, neik said:

@ebr, why is the Mobile and LG app able to pause and go back and forth on a LiveTV TS stream, when it technically shouldn't be able to?

On ATV this only works when direct streaming instead of direct playing. 

I don't believe the Android mobile app can do that but the ones that can are using a player with a small local buffer.  The amount of time you can pause or rewind is limited.  Exo (the player we use in Android) does not have this at this time.

[neik 873]

5 minutes ago, ebr said:

I don't believe the Android mobile app

I can afirm that it does, as I said I did a test today because I accidently tried it on the LG app and it worked, hence I gave it a try on the mobile app.

Also, the mobile app on my MiBox can also pause and rewind.

[ebr 16169]

4 minutes ago, neik said:

Also, the mobile app on my MiBox can also pause and rewind.

You can seek a live TV stream that is not being remuxed or transcoded?  I think you can pause but I don't believe you can seek - unless maybe in your situation the app is actually still using MPV.

[neik 873]

12 minutes ago, ebr said:

You can seek a live TV stream that is not being remuxed or transcoded?  I think you can pause but I don't believe you can seek - unless maybe in your situation the app is actually still using MPV.

Sorry, you are correct pause only on the mobile app.
This would already be an improvement for the ATV app.

The LG app though was able to seek but that's maybe just because it isn't using Exo?

[ebr 16169]

44 minutes ago, neik said:

This would already be an improvement for the ATV app.

But is it really?  If you pause but cannot then seek forward, isn't that frustrating - not knowing that you aren't actually at the live boundary?  Also, I'm guessing how long you can leave it paused is fairly limited but I haven't tested it.

45 minutes ago, neik said:

The LG app though was able to seek but that's maybe just because it isn't using Exo?

Exoplayer is an Android-only thing so, correct.

[Spaceboy 2573]

39 minutes ago, ebr said:

But is it really? 

Yes it would be. Pausing (switching to the transcoded stream) works so poorly at present I just don’t use it

[neik 873]

Imagine you're watching something and a package gets delivered.

With pause available you can pause and resume where you left off.

Also, consider removing the rewind/FF buttons for the type of streams where the app cannot seek. It's quite confusing to see buttons that don't do anything like in the Mobile app

[ebr 16169]

1 hour ago, neik said:

It's quite confusing to see buttons that don't do anything

In the TV app, if you select one of those when not in seek mode, it  offers you the option to switch it.

1 hour ago, neik said:

Imagine you're watching something and a package gets delivered.

With pause available you can pause and resume where you left off.

But, for how long?  And, when you re-start, there is no way to catch back up to the live point or even know where the live point actually is.  Without seek - pause can get you in trouble IMO.