Transcode to AV1

[sydlexius 297]

7 hours ago, rbjtech said:

Ah-ha - I hadn't seen that before in the release details - thanks - that's useful to know.

So two AV1 encoders -  I wonder if those work in parallel to double the throughput?  Intel are claiming a 40% speed improvement with their deep link technology - I wonder if Nvidia's is better than this considering it's on the same silicon...

For the encoding engine only - it's still far too expensive imo - considering for AV1 encoding, Intel have the ARC gpu card at a fraction of the price.

Interesting times ..

The number one problem with Intel is availability.  Their strategy is several days late, but at least they seem to be pricing their mistakes in accord.  As for the 8th Gen NVENC capabilities, we'll have to wait for NVidia to provide details on that.  I would expect that they'll kneecap the consumer oriented products by allowing only x sessions per encoder, while the workstation line will have no such limits.  If this is the case, hopefully it'll still be possible to hack the drivers. I have a T600-based card card that is officially limited, but run with a hacked driver to remove those limits 

As for their capabilities with AV1 (speed, quality, etc), I look forward to seeing comparisons.  Personally, I'd love to get my paws on the hardware that Google uses for their transcoding farm, though even the smaller VCU is super overkill for my needs!

[SikSlayer 249]

9 hours ago, rbjtech said:

Ah-ha - I hadn't seen that before in the release details - thanks - that's useful to know.

So two AV1 encoders -  I wonder if those work in parallel to double the throughput? 

Yes. Basically.

 

19 hours ago, sydlexius said:

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/rtx-40-series-graphics-cards-announcements/ Mentions the dual NVENC.

My mistake about NVDEC.  Both product pages only make mention of NVDEC 5th gen (4090 and 4080, click on Specs then Full Specs).  Since this topic is about transcoding to AV1, the capabilities of the decoder are of second-order importance (IMO).

It used to be the x60 cards, which would come out a year or so later, would have the upgraded NVENC/NVDEC ASIC, not the x70/x80 cards. There's no reason to assume the lower tier cards won't have them as well. What you could assume is that it might not perform as well on them.

 

In all, I'm just happy the AV1 hardware encoders are there. I'm even happier that there's two! That'd be useful for me.

Edited September 22, 2022 by SikSlayer

[SikSlayer 249]

https://www.phoronix.com/news/Intel-AV1-QSV-Encode-FFmpeg

The ducks are all lining up pretty quickly.

 

 

 

 

[softworkz 5066]

On 9/22/2022 at 10:10 AM, rbjtech said:

So two AV1 encoders -  I wonder if those work in parallel to double the throughput? 

I doubt that. A single chip can handle multiple encodes in parallel already. Multiple chips are usually only found on professional and data center models to increase the number of parallel encoding and decoding but probably not for increasing a single encode from 300 to 600 fps.

 

BTW, in case you didn't know, the most useful resource for Nvidia GPU media capabilities is this: https://developer.nvidia.com/video-encode-and-decode-gpu-support-matrix-new

[rbjtech 5284]

8 hours ago, softworkz said:

I doubt that. A single chip can handle multiple encodes in parallel already. Multiple chips are usually only found on professional and data center models to increase the number of parallel encoding and decoding but probably not for increasing a single encode from 300 to 600 fps.

 

BTW, in case you didn't know, the most useful resource for Nvidia GPU media capabilities is this: https://developer.nvidia.com/video-encode-and-decode-gpu-support-matrix-new

Intel ''Deep Link' will allow multiple encoding cores to work in parallel.  it's not 100% scaling - but +40% has been suggested for combining an iGPU and dGPU.

I haven't seen much more beyond the marketing spec - so cannot verify any of this, but if it gets support (or is transparent at the driver level) then it's a win for those with Intel Gen 11-13 cpu's and ARC series dGPU's. 

[softworkz 5066]

14 hours ago, rbjtech said:

Intel ''Deep Link' will allow multiple encoding cores to work in parallel.  it's not 100% scaling - but +40% has been suggested for combining an iGPU and dGPU.

I haven't seen much more beyond the marketing spec - so cannot verify any of this, but if it gets support (or is transparent at the driver level) then it's a win for those with Intel Gen 11-13 cpu's and ARC series dGPU's. 

It's primarily a marketing scenario - at least in terms of transcoding. It can only be used in cases of pure encoding, but not when you have a full hw processing pipeline with decoding, processing and encoding. They have an implementation for handbrake but not for ffmpeg anyway.

[trott90 20]

Will emby start to support transcoding to AV1 if hardward support?

[Luke 42077]

3 minutes ago, trott90 said:

Will emby start to support transcoding to AV1 if hardward support?

Hi, it's possible for future updates. Thanks.

[SikSlayer 249]

And another one...

VideoCardz: FFmpeg now supports NVIDIA NVENC AV1 encoder, outperforms HEVC by 75% to 100%

https://www.phoronix.com/news/NVIDIA-NVENC-AV1-FFmpeg

 

 

Edited November 6, 2022 by SikSlayer
Additional link for context

[SikSlayer 249]

And now Qualcomm newest Snapdragon SoCs have AV1 decoding support.

Qualcomm Snapdragon 8 Gen 2 Has a 40% Faster CPU Than Snapdragon 8 Gen 1, New Leak Also Reveals 8K 60FPS Video Support, More

AMD's new RDNA 3 GPUs have also  the same AV1 encode and decode functionality as Nvidia's new RTX 40 series.

AMD RX 7000 graphics card brings RDNA 3 media engine, supports AV1 hardware encoding

So all three major GPUs support encode AND decode, mobile supports hardware decode, and now open source software is getting in lock step. That's hook, line, and sinker.

 

Edited November 28, 2022 by SikSlayer
typo

[GrimReaper 4739]

On 11/16/2022 at 8:49 PM, SikSlayer said:

So all three major GPUs support encode AND decode

Guess CPUs will follow suit soon enough:

Intel Meteor Lake Confirmed To Offer AV1 Encoding & Decoding Support 

[GrimReaper 4739]

Handbrake HA AV1 on Intel only.

HandBrake 1.6.0 Debuts AV1 Transcoding Support for the Masses

[rbjtech 5284]

On 30/12/2022 at 17:59, GrimReaper said:

Handbrake HA AV1 on Intel only.

HandBrake 1.6.0 Debuts AV1 Transcoding Support for the Masses

Hmm 

Quote

Moreover, those with Intel Quick Sync Video (QSV) enabled processors, and those with Intel Arc GPUs will be able to encode AV1 video with hardware acceleration.

I call BS on this (source is Toms Hardware afterall).. if it is using QSV on non ARC GPU's - then it's feeding it via software, it's not hardware accelerated ?

[softworkz 5066]

 

7 hours ago, rbjtech said:

Quote

Moreover, those with Intel Quick Sync Video (QSV) enabled processors, and those with Intel Arc GPUs will be able to encode AV1 video with hardware acceleration.

I call BS on this (source is Toms Hardware afterall).. if it is using QSV on non ARC GPU's - then it's feeding it via software, it's not hardware accelerated ?

Yes, the article is telling nonsense. The editors have misunderstood the information they got (probably a press release).

Just think: This is about hardware acceleration, so how should all the older processor models down to Skylake have "magically" acquired the capability for AV1 encoding/decoding in hardware?
 

[GrimReaper 4739]

That was more as a reference on "Intel only", though Handbrake release notes do make it somewhat ambiguous (same reported by multiple outlets, T'sHW was only first result):

Quote

HandBrake 1.6.0

All platforms

General

• Added AV1 video encoding
• Added high bit depth and color depth support to various encoders and filters
• Added 4K AV1 General, QSV (Hardware), and MKV (Matroska) presets
• Added 4K HEVC General presets and updated related presets to use similar encoder settings
• Revised Web presets and renamed to Creator, Email, and Social
• Removed VP8 presets
  • The VP8 video encoder is now deprecated and will be removed in a future release
  • Related, the Theora encoder is long deprecated and will be removed in a future release
• Miscellaneous other preset revisions

Video

• Added SVT-AV1 (software) and Intel QSV AV1 (hardware) video encoders
• Added VP9 10-bit encoder
• Added NVENC HEVC 10-bit encoder
• Added VCN HEVC 10-bit encoder
• Added H.264 levels 6, 6.1, and 6.2 for the x264 encoder
• Added H.264/H.265 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 profiles for the x264 and x265 encoders
• Added H.265 4:2:2 profile for VideoToolbox encoder on Apple Silicon
• Added support for Intel Deep Link Hyper Encode (leverage multiple QSV media engines to increase performance)
• Fixed longstanding issue where slowest NVENC encoder preset caused encoding failures
• Removed support for Intel CPUs older than 6th generation (Skylake) when using Intel Quick Sync Video

 

[softworkz 5066]

On 11/16/2022 at 8:49 PM, SikSlayer said:

And now Qualcomm newest Snapdragon SoCs have AV1 decoding support.

Qualcomm Snapdragon 8 Gen 2 Has a 40% Faster CPU Than Snapdragon 8 Gen 1, New Leak Also Reveals 8K 60FPS Video Support, More

AMD's new RDNA 3 GPUs have also  the same AV1 encode and decode functionality as Nvidia's new RTX 40 series.

AMD RX 7000 graphics card brings RDNA 3 media engine, supports AV1 hardware encoding

So all three major GPUs support encode AND decode, mobile supports hardware decode, and now open source software is getting in lock step. That's hook, line, and sinker.

LOl, you seem to be fantasizing a bit - we are far, far away from making use of this. Many things need to happen before and  it will take years until AV1 HW encoding will be a common mainstream feature.

• Hardware
  • Intel
    AV1 encoding is only supported by Alchemist graphics and these cards won't spread out widely as they aren't competitive enough with Nvidia+AMD. Sales figures will be low.
    No current Intel CPU supports AV1 encoding. It's included in the Meteor Lake architecture only, and Meteor Lake might not even be released this year.
    But let's assume that it would get released in 2023. Even two years later, in 2025, Intel will still sell quite an amount of pre-MTL CPUs. Until all those CPUs will become outdated and replaced by newer ones with AV1 encoding support, it will take another 3-5 years, which makes
    => 5-8 years until AV1 will be at a similar level like H.264 has achieved today
  • Nidia, AMD
    Similar story regarding market share evolvement
• Clients
  • It's pointless to let the server encode something when most clients cannot decode it, so in this area, it will take time as well
  • The announcement of a new SoC means nothing. It takes time until the first devices will be available which use the new SoC. drivers will need to be written, support for this will need to be added to the Android (Exo)Player, and this will take years as well.
• Streaming Protocol
  • At this time, it's totally unclear and unpredictable what will be the most common and most widely support way for streaming.
     for example, the HLS spec doesn't support AV1 (yet)

Summary: There are still years to go until this becomes relevant.

 

 

[rbjtech 5284]

1 hour ago, GrimReaper said:

That was more as a reference on "Intel only", though Handbrake release notes do make it somewhat ambiguous (same reported by multiple outlets, T'sHW was only first result):

 

I  think it means it added a QSV decode preset (for 11th,12th & 13th Gen iGPU) and then in the other section it says it added a SVT-AV1 s/w encoder (fine, this will work on ANY reasonable cpu - albeit very slowly) and an QSV AV1 encoder (for ARC gpu and Gen 14 when they are released.)

Edited January 1, 2023 by rbjtech

[ALD76 26]

2 hours ago, rbjtech said:

I  think it means it added a QSV decode preset (for 11th,12th & 13th Gen iGPU) and then in the other section it says it added a SVT-AV1 s/w encoder (fine, this will work on ANY reasonable cpu - albeit very slowly) and an QSV AV1 encoder (for ARC gpu and Gen 14 when they are released.)

Yep as stated here by Intel.

[created4games 6]

AV1 transcode support, when?

Edited November 5, 2023 by created4games
Context

[nmkd1 3]

Bump.

Even software encoding is nowadays fast enough, a midrange Ryzen 5700G can do 1080p at 40 FPS (= 1.7x realtime assuming you're watching 24 FPS content) at Preset 8, which isn't even the fastest.

The quality improvement over x264 is drastic.

[sebasmiles 8]

9 hours ago, nmkd1 said:

Bump.

Even software encoding is nowadays fast enough, a midrange Ryzen 5700G can do 1080p at 40 FPS (= 1.7x realtime assuming you're watching 24 FPS content) at Preset 8, which isn't even the fastest.

The quality improvement over x264 is drastic.

Except if you have more than 1 person watching transcoded stuff, it would then not meet enough FPS I would imagine.

[nmkd1 3]

On 1/11/2024 at 4:01 AM, sebasmiles said:

Except if you have more than 1 person watching transcoded stuff, it would then not meet enough FPS I would imagine.

Sure, but that's not a huge issue since transcoding can be disabled for guests, and lots of people use their server solo anyway.

[ebr 16169]

17 hours ago, nmkd1 said:

that's not a huge issue since transcoding can be disabled for guests

Hi.  Doing that will usually cause playback failures.

 

[Luke 42077]

4 hours ago, ebr said:

Hi.  Doing that will usually cause playback failures.

 

Right, please make sure to read the help text underneath the option before doing that.

[nmkd1 3]

Either way, there's now

• A fast software encoder (SVT-AV1)
• Hardware encoding on Intel (QuickSync AV1)
• Hardware encoding on Nvidia (NVENC AV1)

Would be great to be able to utilize those in Emby.