Blu-ray is transcoded, but should be directplay

[Rendboell 3]

Blu-ray VC-1 videos are transcoded or not able to be played, but if I disallow / turn off transcoding for the user, then all movies plays with Directplay.

Also, if I Play VC-1 video with AC3, DTS or DTS HD MA audio and turn off subtitles, then all movies plays with Directplay.

In addition, VC-1 video with TrueHD audio and subtitle turned off or SRT subtitle is not playing (No compatible streams are currently available), as well as being transcoded with PGSSUB subtitle turned on.

The issue is somehow related to the combination of VC-1 video and subtitle format, as well as VC-1 video and TrueHD audio.

Use cases with problems:

(1) VC-1 video, TrueHD audio and PGSSUB subtitles (Stats for Nerds: Reason for Transcoding: Subtitle format not supported)

(2) VC-1 video, TrueHD audio and SRT subtitles (No compatible streams are currently available)

(3) VC-1 video, DTS-HD MA or DTS audio and PGSSUB subtitle (Stats for Nerds: Reason for Transcoding: Subtitle format not supported)

(4) AC3 audio and PGSSUB subtitles (Stats for Nerds: Subtitle format not supported)

(5) VC-1 video with TrueHD and subtitles off is not able to be played (No compatible streams are currently available), but if I play VC-1 video with TrueHd and turn on PGSSUB subtitle, then the movie plays with transcoding (Stats for Nerds: Reason for Transcoding: Subtitle format not supported)

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Samsung Smart TV (UE65JU7005) with support for DTS, Dolby Digital, DTS HD and TrueHD.

App: Emby for Samsung 1.0.87

Attached movie meta-data and logs for server and transcoding.

Best regards,

Rendboell

ffmpeg-transcode-a83f4463-727f-4192-ba03-6b32ebb79444_1.txt ffmpeg-transcode-aacd3731-e9c1-41f2-9743-80808e19c5a5_1.txt ffmpeg-transcode-cf74f66d-4e89-4f9f-9f80-20a09ffd3920_1.txt ffmpeg-transcode-024c8a33-ac46-4cc6-aa0b-956631f560ee_1.txt ffmpeg-transcode-05c41588-0d67-45b3-8159-a6e07c509e95_1.txt embyserver.txt ffmpeg-transcode-714a355e-3c9e-497b-b6a7-5ef9e5154380_1.txt

[SamES 891]

I'm trying to make sense of this.

Some points to take note of:

• TrueHD will always require some type of conversion as it is not supported by the TV, it cannot DirectPlay.
  • If the video codec is supported for streaming, then only the audio will be converted and it will be played as DirectStream
    • This is not possible with vc1, so...
  • If not, the server will transcode the video and audio`
• PGS Subs will always require burning into the video by the server as the TV does not natively support PGS
  • Playback of PGS subs will always be transcoded

If you turn off Transcoding for video streams, then you will get the 'no compatible streams' error.  This is not a good idea.

If you turn off Transcoding for video streams, but apply a PGS sub, then I suspect that the server is still forcing transcoding as the transcode reason is for subtitle support.

ie: Turning off 'Allow video playback that requires transcoding' won't stop it transcoding if you try and play PGS subs.

Does this help clarify what you are seeing?

In summary, if you don't want any transcoding, avoid TrueHD and PGS subs

[Rendboell 3]

Hi SamES,

Thanks for your answer

If I turn off transcoding for the video streams, all my blu-rays with TrueHD and PGS subs are Directplay according to the Emby app "Stats for Nerds".

Thus, Samsung UE65JU7005 must have support for TrueHD (or at least is able to convert to another format), but the PGS subs don't work.

I use the optical out to my RME Fireface 800 soundcard, so the TV is downmixing TrueHD 5.1 to PCM 2.0 (Bitstream to PCM conversion ???).

The sound is just as good as on my PC with MPC-HC (Asio bitperfect playback), so I guess my TV is doing a lossless downmixing of 5.1 to 2.0.

I don't have a Receiver with TrueHD playback capability, so I can't check if my TV is just doing a conversion or actually decoding / passing through TrueHD.

I use the Emby app, because the video quality is much better than MPC-HC (low quality Intel HD 4600 GPU).

But it would be nice, if I didn't have to turn off transcoding when playing videos with TrueHD and be able to convert PGS subs.

Best regards,

Rendboell

Edited December 23, 2020 by Rendboell

[Luke 37112]

Quote

But it would be nice, if I didn't have to turn off transcoding when playing videos with TrueHD and be able to convert PGS subs.

Once a conversion happens you're going to lose the TrueHD anyway because that can't be carried in the HLS protocol that we use when transcoding.

So yes, it does look like there is something for @SamES to research in terms of allowing TrueHD on some models, but if the video has to be converted, then the TrueHD will have to be as well.

So the best way to get everything would be to use external srt subtitles and then you can keep the direct play and still see subs.

[SamES 891]

That's definitely interesting.

TrueHD is not listed as supported on the model matrix, but the 2015/J series was a bit of a hybrid as it was the cross-over model between Orsay and Tizen, in fact it would even run Orsay apps.

It is possible that in the Orsay models that TrueHD was converted to (2-channel?) PCM.  I can't find a model matrix for the Orsay models, but @FrostBytemight know as he had a late model Orsay TV.

All I can say though is that due to the limitations of ARC, it could not be transferring TrueHD 5.1 as the bitrate would be too high.  If it is only sending 2 channels, or 2 channel PCM then this is not as good as the server converting the TrueHD to AC3 5.1.  We could make it allow DirectPlay of TrueHD for these older models, but I don't see there is a benefit, and it's probably not what most users would want.

 

Happy for opposing thoughts....

[FrostByte 5052]

Optical output only allows PCM 2.0, AC3 5.1 and DTS 5.1 

Yes, my Orsay set will pass sound over optical also if playing TrueHD.  It's not coming out as surround and just stereo so there isn't any reencoding being done to AC3 or DTS 5.1.  It sounds like it's just decoded with left and right channels only sent as PCM 2.0

Picture is from the JU7000 users manual (the 7005 is just a regional variation), but those audio codecs are when using ARC and not optical

 

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by FrostByte

[FrostByte 5052]

I seriously doubt most people are going to prefer PCM 2.0 over AC3 5.1 though just to avoid conversion.  Would have to be an option for sure for those who want the TV to just decode the audio and send it raw like that

As far as PGS, those will always need to be transcoded in order to keep the formatting.  You can convert PGS to SRT on the fly, but if you choose a format your TV supports (there's a chart for those in the users manual also) before clicking play you can avoid the conversion for subtitles all together

[Rendboell 3]

Hi FrostByte,

Thanks for your answer

You may be right for some users, but I think there are good arguments for wanting TrueHD and to avoid transcoding/converting.

Most people I know only have stereo systems or sound bars, and I find TrueHD 5.1 better than AC3 5.1, when it is downmixed to 2.0.

The Samsung UE65JU7005 is doing a very good job downmixing TrueHD 5.1, when I compare it to downmixing with my professional soundcard and mixer (RME Fireface 800).

If you actually have a 5.1 system with TrueHD capability, then for sure you want TrueHD compared to AC3 5.1.

Another thing is that the Emby app is more stable with directplay compared to transcoding/converting.

Best regards,

Rendboell

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by Rendboell

[FrostByte 5052]

ATV recently added an option where the user could choose between letting the hardware decode and play audio the best it could, or guaranteeing surround and allowing he server to transcode when needed. 

[SamES 891]

7 hours ago, Rendboell said:

You may be right for some users, but I think there are good arguments for wanting TrueHD and to avoid transcoding/converting.

Most people I know only have stereo systems or sound bars, and I find TrueHD 5.1 better than AC3 5.1, when it is downmixed to 2.0.

The Samsung UE65JU7005 is doing a very good job downmixing TrueHD 5.1, when I compare it to downmixing with my professional soundcard and mixer (RME Fireface 800).

This is a valid reason, but until we have on option similar to ATV, this is not easily achieve, we can only have one option or the other.

7 hours ago, Rendboell said:

If you actually have a 5.1 system with TrueHD capability, then for sure you want TrueHD compared to AC3 5.1.

At the moment, there is no Samsung hardware that can play TrueHD 5.1, but it will come soon, then we will enable it for those models

7 hours ago, Rendboell said:

Another thing is that the Emby app is more stable with directplay compared to transcoding/converting.

Yes, very true.