Some question Emby client on Samsung tv/ subtitle position, pgssub/srt and transcoding

[CogyG 3]

Dear Emby-ers, 

Just installed Emby on my new tv upstairs and i do have some questions. 

I have a Nvidia Shield in the living room with the server on it .
Everything is working perfect, all direct play.

But for upstairs:

- Can i change the position of the subtitles? They are very low on the image, but i cant find a way the move them up.

- i have some problems playing 4k movies, some needs to be transcoded  HEVC -> H.264 and it takes ages. 
I have a 150mbs connection upstairs, it's wifi, but it is enough, right? 
Some movies play on Directstream, but some needs to be transcoded

- Same for the subtitles, it''s transcoding when i''m using pgssub, is there a way to change this? Instead of downloading srt subtitles. 

I''ve attached an log

 

Thank you in advance

A happy user

 

 

Edit: My birate speeds was on 40mb/s, thats why the 4k movies didn''t load.
The movies are playing fine now.

 

Only the subtitles need to be downloaded to srt

 

 

 

 

 

embyserver.txt

Edited December 11, 2020 by CogyG

[SamES 891]

PGS subs will always require transcoding.  Better to find a suitable external sub file, or use something like SubtitleEdit which can extract the PGS subs, performs OCR and creates a perfectly timed srt file.  You may need to got through and correct a few things the OCR misses, but that's half the fun!

You should be able to get most things to DirectPlay on the Samsung.  The main limitations will lossless TrueHD, DTS and PGS subs.  In each case, use an alternate audio track and find an external subtitle file.  As much as you can keep DirectPlay as the format, the happier you'l be with the performance.

If you're trying to play PGS subs, then this is possibly causing conversion from HEVC->h264, which will be slow depending on your hardware.

With regards to subtitle position (for non-PGS subs) that has been raised previously and I can change it, but it's not user adjustable.  If the preference is to keep it in the movie frame, (not in the black-bars) then that can be achieved.  In this case, do you think the position should be variable (ie: subs are lower when the content is full screen without black bars) or should they always be in the same location?  What about content that is 16:9 with black bars in the encoding?  In this case, the subs will be in the black bars.  @FrostByte, @filthyfreak  Thoughts on subs position?

[CogyG 3]

Thank you SamEs for the nice explanation.

I tried to extract the subtitles but it takes ages to do only one. And i got a lot of movies with PGS subs..
I can DirectPlay, PGS subs on my Nvidia Shield, downstairs, so without transcoding. It this because of the Shield?

Below you can see how low the subtitles are, this is for every movie.
If it's possible i would like to have the variable option for the subtitles

Thank you sir

 

Edited December 12, 2020 by CogyG

[FrostByte 5053]

I prefer my subtitles in the picture.  I'm one to believe that if your eyes have to constantly move down to the black area to read the text then you miss more of the picture than when the text is in the picture.  Your brain will actually fill in what little is covered.  However, it can be hard to read sometimes if there's snow or something else toward the bottom and the text is white.

Some of the other clients have an option on the OSD to move the position of the subs with a popup and a +,- key to raise/lower the height while the movie is playing.  However, it only works with subtitles which don't have a predefined position right in the file.  PGS and some ASS have the position in the file and can't be moved.  It also only works if you didn't reencode your movie and crop the black bars off.  The black has to be part of the video in order to move it down there.

Edited December 12, 2020 by FrostByte

[SamES 891]

Yes, possibly the Shield can handle PGS due to its processing capabilities, but it would be a rare case.

So in your picture, the subs appear to be at the bottom of the screen, which is how they should be in Samsung app now.  So even for this case you would want them higher, or is this the right position for this aspect ratio/format?

[FrostByte 5053]

Sorry, I was editing my reply when you answered.  On the Shield PGS can be rendered, but they can't be moved because the position is defined in the file.  Just like some ASS have the position defined and can't be moved.  The Shield client can only move the position of subs with no position defined (SRT, some ASS, etc).  I don't have any other device which can render PGS so they need to be burned in to keep the formatting, or convert on the fly which can cause issues 

T

[FrostByte 5053]

23 minutes ago, SamES said:

Yes, possibly the Shield can handle PGS due to its processing capabilities, but it would be a rare case.

So in your picture, the subs appear to be at the bottom of the screen, which is how they should be in Samsung app now.  So even for this case you would want them higher, or is this the right position for this aspect ratio/format?

In his picture that's where I want them   Or, maybe a little higher on a IMAX movie where the picture takes up the whole screen.  

How would the Samsung app know where the picture ends and the black bars start with a remuxed movie (with black bars)?  The file would be 3840*2160 with black bars, but the picture part could almost be anything down to 3840*1600.  In that case either the user  defines the position in their subs (ASS can do that), or the client would need to have an option to move them on the fly as the resolution of the picture part will differ with every movie.

Edited December 12, 2020 by FrostByte

[CogyG 3]

5 minutes ago, FrostByte said:

Sorry, I was editing my reply when you answered.  On the Shield PGS can be rendered, but they can't be moved because the position is defined in the file.  Just like some ASS have the position defined and can't be moved.  The Shield client can only move the position of subs with no position defined (SRT, some ASS, etc).  I don't have any other device which can render PGS so they need to be burned in to keep the formatting, or convert on the fly which can cause issues 

T

Yes, i understand original subs can't be moved.
Thank you.

 

16 minutes ago, SamES said:

Yes, possibly the Shield can handle PGS due to its processing capabilities, but it would be a rare case.

So in your picture, the subs appear to be at the bottom of the screen, which is how they should be in Samsung app now.  So even for this case you would want them higher, or is this the right position for this aspect ratio/format?

For my understanding:
The server is on the Nvidia Shield Pro and does all the work, like transcoding.

I can play movies with PSG subs downstairs while using the Shield app (All of my REMUX movies with PGS subs can DirectPlay without transcoding.)
But i can't play movies with PSG subs upstairs while using the Samsung app, so is it due the client then?

Would a Nvidia Shield TV (basic edition, for just the client app) solve the problem for transcoding the PSG subs? 

I attached a photo of the position of the subtitles where i'm using the Shield app.
I would like to have the same position on the Samsung app client. 

Subtitle position -2 on the Shield app, is the same as the Samsung app. So can you adjust it +2 ?

 

18 minutes ago, FrostByte said:

I prefer my subtitles in the picture.  I'm one to believe that if your eyes have to constantly move down to the black area to read the text then you miss more of the picture than when the text is in the picture.  Your brain will actually fill in what little is covered.  However, it can be hard to read sometimes if there's snow or something else toward the bottom and the text is white.

Some of the other clients have an option on the OSD to move the position of the subs with a popup and a +,- key to raise/lower the height while the movie is playing.  However, it only works with subtitles which don't have a predefined position right in the file.  PGS and some ASS have the position in the file and can't be moved.  It also only works if you didn't reencode your movie and crop the black bars off.  The black has to be part of the video in order to move it down there.

Thank you, i understand. 

[FrostByte 5053]

I like the second one better.  My eyes are more closely centered on the picture and not way down in the dirt. 

I haven't quite woken up this morning and the snow is blowing so hard outside I can't see our barn.  So if what I say doesn't make sense it's because my brain isn't functioning yet.

[SamES 891]

8 hours ago, FrostByte said:

How would the Samsung app know where the picture ends and the black bars start with a remuxed movie (with black bars)? 

Yes, this is the problem.  The best I could do is look at the height of the media item and ensure the subs are located within this height.  This will be a problem if the black bars are encoded in the file, which I don't think is often the case.  Worst case, it will look the same as now, and for most media without the black bars encoded, it will look more like you want.  It won't be perfect, but definitely closer, more often.

Is this typically where subs are located on other clients (Shield?), over the content and out of the black bars?  I find text over the image can be hard to read and prefer them in the bottom, but I don't use subs a lot, so I can imagine that those that use them often may like them to be more centered.

Which clients have the ability to adjust the subs?  I can look at how that's implemented.  It will really depend on what @Lukewants for consistency across clients.

[CogyG 3]

@SamES,

Would another Nvidia Shield TV solve the problem for transcoding the PSG subs? 

Also if the movie plays DirectStream(bedroom) instead of DirectPlay (living room)

[Luke 37129]

Our app on the shield will be able to direct play them soon.

[CogyG 3]

Hey Luke,

I already can play PGS subs on the Shield Pro in the living room. Server 4.6.0.4 beta and client 1.8.54g

But i want to play them in the bedroom where i now use Samsung client 1.0.86

I Directplay in the living room and DirectStream to the bedroom.

So if i buy another Nvidia Shield TV, should i play PGS subtitle without transcoding?

Thanks on advance 

[FrostByte 5053]

Unfortunately, the Samsung app will never Direct Play if you use PGS subs.  They just aren't supported when played from the TV. 

If you look at your users manual you should find a chart which looks something like this:

 

The only choices are either using a subtitle format which the TV supporta, or letting Emby convert them to something your TV supports.

If you must have PGS then another Shield is a good choice and they're on sale right now at several places.

Edited December 14, 2020 by FrostByte

[SamES 891]

6 hours ago, FrostByte said:

The only choices are either using a subtitle format which the TV supporta, or letting Emby convert them to something your TV supports.

If you must have PGS then another Shield is a good choice and they're on sale right now at several places.

This is your best answer for your problem

[CogyG 3]

12 hours ago, SamES said:

This is your best answer for your problem

Thank you SamEs

My questions have been answered