colindavies69 0 Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 Can some please tell me where i can get the new plugin for nextpvr v5 please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 37064 Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 Hi, there currently isn't one, but what you can do is use next pvr's m3u output feature to import into Emby as an m3u tuner. We are currently working on a setup guide for this. You can view the current progress of it here: https://support.emby.media/support/solutions/articles/44002060568-nextpvr-tuner @cayars can help improve this if needed. Please let us know if this helps. Thanks ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrbee99 1560 Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 Don't understand how that can be just taken away without any warning, at least till any new stuff arrives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emveepee 112 Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 (edited) No one discussed anything with me or NextPVR users when NextPVR functionality was put behind a pay wall so I know how you feel. Using either the m3u approach and the plugin is in violation of NextPVR's non-commercial use license so I wouldn't recommend it but the dll is not broken. You can be your own moral compass but I would hope that Luke stopped promoting this approach. It may be easier to think of it like this scenario. A developer wants to create a commercial PVR app and thinks hey I don't need to worry about the tuner or any of the hard stuff I just create a UI charge users and connect to NextPVR. Martin Edited October 11, 2020 by emveepee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrbee99 1560 Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 I must admit I always assumed NextPVRs dev had no problem with paywalls and the open/closed thing as he (or she) has contributed on these forums, including your plugin thread, without, as far as I'm aware, any 'Oi, whats going on here' type stuff. Can't say I know about any arrangements re plugins and Emby / plugin developer relations either. Regardless, I admire what you've created, still haven't found anything better, and please keep contributing if you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emveepee 112 Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 It was for supporting loyal users like you that I did the port and I probably shouldn't have walked away. A recent situation arose (not related to Emby) and I decided I couldn't be a hypocrite and had to consider Emby as a commercial app. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrbee99 1560 Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 You can only do what you think is right. But am very glad you did. There isn't much NZ software about (or maybe there is, maybe in gaming or something ?), so its nice to be able to use it, and you made it integrate really nicely. Obviously you may actually be from Basingstoke or somewhere not remotely NZish, not that it matters. Sorry, think the rambling is beginning to set in again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emveepee 112 Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 (edited) No, I'm Canadian, where it is is fall and we are getting frost so not remotely NZish. Sub the author of NextPVR is from NZ though and I know he finds hard it not to support users too. Martin Edited October 11, 2020 by emveepee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrbee99 1560 Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 Ha. Small world moment. Am still about 400km from NextPVR HQ. Also, it dull and overcast here at the moment, though no frosts any more fortunately. Sub is indeed good at all aspects - writing the stuff, supporting the stuff, putting up with daft questions from me about, well, stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlo 4330 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 This is just my own personal thoughts. I'm just curious how a person running a media server for their family or close friends is remotely "Commercial" or a violation of any TOS. Commercial to me is setting up a server/service and charging a fee becoming a business/commercial entity. That is also against Emby's TOS as well. I can purchase all kinds of software like Windows, MS Office, Adobe products, Norton Antivirus, but the fact I've purchased software doesn't make what I do with it commercial in nature. Even non-profit organizations still purchase software but what they do is in no way commercial, quite the opposite in fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emveepee 112 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 These are my personal views. First the NextPVR license isn't just non commercial, it is not commercial person use. The Emby premiere "device" license is already is in potential conflict with the personal use license. Second, I have seen users and Emby support promoting the m3u interface as a means to address Emby limitations and enhance their product . Does that mean Emby could profit from this interface and does Emby charge for access to this service? I believe the answer to both questions are obvious "Yeses" which makes the server-to-server communication a "commercial" connection. I am not saying it is big money it is still a fact. Martin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlo 4330 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Who cares if NextPVR benefits from donations from Emby users or from exposure to it from Emby forums or if Emby benefits from users using NextPVR? Right on the NextPVR website it clearly says "NextPVR is free for personal, non-commercial use. Commercial use requires a license." If I'm using it for my personal use regardless if it interacts with other software and I'm not selling services it's clearly for personal use and I do not need a commercial license since nothing about my system is commercial. I don't think any law in any country would interpret that any other way, nor allow stipulations that a user can only use said software in certain situations only (ie can't be mixed or used with competing software). Even using said software in a business is not considered "commercial use". Generally international law considers commercial use as any reproduction or purpose that is marketed, promoted, or sold and incorporates a financial transaction. You can't use the software to make a product YOU CHARGE for or sell in that case. But that's not the case here. Just to clarify something, I do respect your ability to choose to allow users the use of the plugin or not, it's your work and that decision is yours to make. However, I personally object to saying I can't use NextPVR myself as an M3U source for my otherwise personal use media system just because I've donated, paid or licensed some of the other software that makes up my system. Likely most people of NextPVR are using the software on system they've paid/licensed software in order to get NextPVR to run and that software is called Windows. I'm sure most people have other paid/licensed software in use as well on their media systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceboy 2493 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 1 hour ago, cayars said: Who cares if NextPVR benefits from donations from Emby users or from exposure to it from Emby forums or if Emby benefits from users using NextPVR? Right on the NextPVR website it clearly says "NextPVR is free for personal, non-commercial use. Commercial use requires a license." If I'm using it for my personal use regardless if it interacts with other software and I'm not selling services it's clearly for personal use and I do not need a commercial license since nothing about my system is commercial. I don't think any law in any country would interpret that any other way, nor allow stipulations that a user can only use said software in certain situations only (ie can't be mixed or used with competing software). Even using said software in a business is not considered "commercial use". Generally international law considers commercial use as any reproduction or purpose that is marketed, promoted, or sold and incorporates a financial transaction. You can't use the software to make a product YOU CHARGE for or sell in that case. But that's not the case here. Just to clarify something, I do respect your ability to choose to allow users the use of the plugin or not, it's your work and that decision is yours to make. However, I personally object to saying I can't use NextPVR myself as an M3U source for my otherwise personal use media system just because I've donated, paid or licensed some of the other software that makes up my system. Likely most people of NextPVR are using the software on system they've paid/licensed software in order to get NextPVR to run and that software is called Windows. I'm sure most people have other paid/licensed software in use as well on their media systems. you're either wilfully or accidentally confusing the personal choice of a user to use two bits of software to interact with each other and the proivder of one of the products (commercial) promoting the use of the other (non-commercial) to mitigate the short-comings of the commercial product and to make money from it. its really not that complicated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlo 4330 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 I get it. It's no different than Oracle trying to say their database can't be used by a company that also uses MS SQL Server or that the data can't be shared with the other database. That type of thing is not lawful by US or International law regardless of EULAs. Oracle could most certainly not develop tools themselves to interact with another DB but can't pose restrictions on customers or other companies interfacing with their software no more than they could tell you what kinds of data you're allowed to load. It's the same as not being able to enforce a person buying a car and using 3rd party parts vs original on them after the purchase. These types of things generally fall under most countries anti-trust laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrbee99 1560 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 If I may display my ignorance here, again, doesn't the fact that NextPVR have an api to allow for this kind of, what, hooking in, mean NextPVR is ok with this kind of stuff ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emveepee 112 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 There are lots of examples of licensed API's and that doesn't mean using those services are free. A good example is thetvdb which a lot of media players use for metadata is going to start charging for their access to their API https://www.thetvdb.com/subscribe The NextPVR license doesn't say that API access isn't allowed it says in commercial use the normal license is terminated and the user needs to contact the company for a permission. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlo 4330 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 That's not the same thing at all. They are simply charging for access which is ok, fair and what business do. Maybe with proper income they'll get their shit together. If not, well there likely won't be subscriptions for long to thetvdb. It would not be unreasonable for a home/personal user having to get their own personal subscription to use that service. That would be similar to having to get your own cable plan and tuner(s) to record from it as well. Just because you pay for the software or device to record, doesn't make your use commercial. Emby's license is actually very clear as well that the software is only to be used for personal non-commercial use and to contact them for commercial use licenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pünktchen 1258 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Don't argue against each other. The question is what does @sub3 say to this problem? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emveepee 112 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Commercial use is pretty clear http://thehelpful.com/creativecommons/what-is-commercial-use.html I don't think these clauses are altruistic, I think they are designed to give authors like sub a chance of negotiating when there is even a hint of a business opportunity. Emby is not using the live streaming API the way it was intended (basic viewing) as soon as a the server starts and stops recording, timeshifting padding etc. Clearly this is only available via automation, server to server processing is not something a personal user would do. Luke and sub tend to supports users so things like Emby's single-use license might be overlooked when a user post that they make their Emby server available to close friends but when you ask for yes no answers you might worry about the response. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sub3 64 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 1 hour ago, pünktchen said: Don't argue against each other. The question is what does @sub3 say to this problem? This was my comment to the Emby guys back in the day... https://forums.nextpvr.com/showthread.php?tid=52306&pid=451569#pid451569 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pünktchen 1258 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, sub3 said: This was my comment to the Emby guys back in the day... https://forums.nextpvr.com/showthread.php?tid=52306&pid=451569#pid451569 And that makes it clear. So everybody should respect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrbee99 1560 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Wasn't there something at the bottom of that page about free plugins not being a problem ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlo 4330 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 emveepee, I think your link is very good and shows why this isn't commercial use. Emby hasn't used, nor bundled, nor sold any product of NextPVRs, nor used any proprietary data unique to NextPVR. I believe it was you who provided a plugin to interface the two together. Your software/plugin, so your decision to stop further use/distribution of it. That of course is respected and I said that personally up front in my first comment. My personal objection is the M3U use. When you have two or a thousand pieces of software that support the transfer of information for input and output via common protocols and specifications like the de facto standard of M3U file protocol you have intentionally made it possible for others to consume the data any way they see fit as long as it's legal. That is not integration since YOU the vendor of the software intentionally made a choice to support an open framework which allows consumption of data from all types of other platforms. Once you've made the data available via an open standard you've lost the ability to dictate what other legal software can use it. That's my point right there, not the plugin as I respect that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainfryd 7 Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 I think this is where the issue lies, as per Sub's post... The ability to connect to NextPVR via any API or method, was meant to kept as free for all users, but as per the attached Matrix (only partly shown)... Live TV & DVR features (potentially provided via NextPVR) are all now Premiere options and not available to basic(free) users... I, myself having been a lifetime premiere user for some time now, take all this functionality for granted to some degree, but it does raise an interesting point and I can certainly see why Martin has taken the stand he has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heuer 76 Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 Why not move 'Live TV' to 'Free' and everyone will be happy? Emby developers will have a revenue stream for their free guide data and DVR and those of us who cannot use one of their listed tuners continue to be able to use NPVR via the plugin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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