Lyfesaver 64 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyfesaver 64 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Well crap... there is only one station here atm that has it and the streams are not decodable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troyhough 57 Posted October 9, 2020 Author Share Posted October 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Lyfesaver said: Well crap... there is only one station here atm that has it and the streams are not decodable It's a start. Thanks for posting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlo 4331 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Talk about you're bad luck. I can't believe you picked up the ATSC 3.0 box for just 1 station! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troyhough 57 Posted October 10, 2020 Author Share Posted October 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, cayars said: Talk about you're bad luck. I can't believe you picked up the ATSC 3.0 box for just 1 station! I picked it up for 0 stations 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlo 4331 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Some additional info on KSTR here https://forum.silicondust.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=73555&start=30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softworkz 3349 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 @Lyfesaver - Are you able to measure how much that 3.0 channel is delayed compared to the same channel's regular broadcast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlo 4331 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 I don't think he's able to tune to it at present as he's getting a decoder error. Could be an encoder issue or could be they are testing IP or DRM services which the HDHomeRuns can't handle. The only place I've seen "encoder issue" is on SD's site but see others watching it using other hardware. I'm trying to find out what people are using and not having issues. Not that I'm in any hurry as my area is still a way's off and unless some stations are broadcasting in 4K... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softworkz 3349 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 You definitely need to expect situations where neighbors are cheering during sports events while you don't know (yet) why. But I wonder how bad it will be.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkss12 296 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 54 minutes ago, cayars said: Talk about you're bad luck. I can't believe you picked up the ATSC 3.0 box for just 1 station! I got one "just in case" we get ATSC 3.0 in my area during my lifetime. All I use is OTA media. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy 739 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 I'll wait.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlo 4331 Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 I'm in wait mode as well. First neither of the markets I can pickup OTA (Phila, Baltimore) have ATSC 3.0 yet so I'm not missing out. Also I don't care about odd-ball stations I'd never watch being in ATSC 3.0. When CBS, ABC, NBC, FOX type stations make the move I'll be more interested. But even then as a consumer (not tech junkie) I want there to be an advantage for me to switch. If it's still being broadcast in 480,720 or 1080 I'm likely still not gaining anything. Give me 4K on those stations and we have a game changer especially if in 60 fps which would be great for sports. Recording directly to HEVC is compelling on the space savings but I convert things myself now so while a plus, not a hands down compelling reason either. Since I can't actually receive ATSC 3.0 yet, I'll just wait for prices on tuners to drop and also watch what other products come out besides SD's offering. The HDHR is rather limited in many respects in ATSC 3.0 land since it gives up some of the advantages of ATSC 3.0 in order to wrap functionality up to look/work like the legacy HDHRs. No DRM or IP functionality this way. The SD approach to functioning like legacy HDHRs has PROs and CONs but right now makes them the consumer leader since they actually have a shipping product. I'm looking forward to seeing how other companies deliver ATSC 3.0 devices and at what price points as well. Carlo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkss12 296 Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 Back when the NFL first starting to broadcast in HD (720p or 1080i), I believe there were only three teams at the time, I had cable and they wanted $10 more a month (they still do) to provide HD channels. Anyway, that made me angry at the idea they were going to charge me for what should have been a FREE service. I also read that Cable compressed their signal, but the over the air broadcast was a raw signal around the 19 Mb limit. I had my brand new 65" rear projection TV that did 1080i and 720p and I wanted to watch the NFL games in all of it's glory. I purchased and installed a roof top mounted antenna, purchased Dish Network DTV Pal DVR for around $250. Everything cost me around $400 just to watch the few NFL games that were broadcast in HD. All this just to keep from paying cable $10 a month for the privilege of watching the games in HD. That was probably about 8 or 10 years ago, but don't quote me on that. Bottom line, I purchased the HDHR 4k tuner so I will be ready when they start broadcasting the NFL games in 4k. I did it before and I will do it again......... 10 years from now, I will be looking for hardware to watch the NFL games broadcast in 8K. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy 739 Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 8 hours ago, cayars said: I'm in wait mode as well. First neither of the markets I can pickup OTA (Phila, Baltimore) have ATSC 3.0 yet so I'm not missing out. Also I don't care about odd-ball stations I'd never watch being in ATSC 3.0. When CBS, ABC, NBC, FOX type stations make the move I'll be more interested. But even then as a consumer (not tech junkie) I want there to be an advantage for me to switch. If it's still being broadcast in 480,720 or 1080 I'm likely still not gaining anything. Give me 4K on those stations and we have a game changer especially if in 60 fps which would be great for sports. Recording directly to HEVC is compelling on the space savings but I convert things myself now so while a plus, not a hands down compelling reason either. Since I can't actually receive ATSC 3.0 yet, I'll just wait for prices on tuners to drop and also watch what other products come out besides SD's offering. The HDHR is rather limited in many respects in ATSC 3.0 land since it gives up some of the advantages of ATSC 3.0 in order to wrap functionality up to look/work like the legacy HDHRs. No DRM or IP functionality this way. The SD approach to functioning like legacy HDHRs has PROs and CONs but right now makes them the consumer leader since they actually have a shipping product. I'm looking forward to seeing how other companies deliver ATSC 3.0 devices and at what price points as well. Carlo I didn't realize this.. I'm thinking they'll have a Ver2 within a year or two as the ATSC 3.0 market matures. On this one I don't think I need to be bleeding edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softworkz 3349 Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 (edited) I would rather consider the ATSC3.0 standard as a conceptional failure. It is throwing away some of the primary benefits of TDM broadcast (low-latency, strong error-resiliency) in favor of an IP encapsulation which effectively makes it inherit all the disadvantages of IPTV streams in general. It is effectively raising a case of type "The US vs. the rest of the world", but the US market is no longer dominating the world like in the past. TV devices are primarily manufactured in Asia, and while the FCC or whatever regulation authorities will mandate devices to support ATSC3.0 - how will manufacturers implement this? Will they go back to the drawing board and totally redevelop their tuner units for the US market? - No, the won't. They will internally do something similar like SD: Some module will deal with ATSC3.0, but it will be internally converted to MPEGTS allowing it to be processed further by all other units just like the TV signal everywhere else in the world. It's the same what can be seen with the HDHR: Internally, the signal is converted to the standard that the rest of the world uses (MPEGTS) - because otherwise there wouldn't exist any applications that can work with it. Before anybody starts typing to contradict, let me add one more thing: all those things laid out above regarding SD's 3.0 tuner implementation and how manufacturers will probably deal with this in their devices: This is not the way how a great new technology starts into market. Whatever ATSC3.0 will be able to achieve will be the result of what regulations will enforce, but not much beyond. That's my prediction. Now feel free to object, contradict, burn me down,..whatever... I will reply in exactly 5 years from today! Edited October 11, 2020 by softworkz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlo 4331 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 OK I'll take the bait and wait 5 years for your reply. LOL I don't see it as a conceptional failure at all. ATSC 3 has higher performance, lower latency and better error correction that any other OTA standard. It also has the most efficient use of bandwidth (DVB-T is close). OTA signals will be stronger with ATSC 3 than today’s digital ATSC 1 broadcasts and will propagate over greater distances and deeper into buildings which will be welcomed by consumers. ATSC 3.0 of course is multicast by nature so it is suited to live broadcasts and multiple TV viewing using a "single stream" vs a stream per viewing station. Running over IP has several benefits. First besides being streamed OTA the same feeds can be transmitted over cable/internet which would allow reception over 5G mobile without an antenna or subscribe over the Internet in your broadcast area without worry of OTA obstructions. ATSC 3.0 can simultaneously work over both OTA and 5G or Internet. TV reception in cars should be trivial as well via OTA. If you don't mind watching over a 5 to 10 second delay you can have virtually perfect reception as any bad packets received over OTA can be fetched over IP/Internet. The International Telecommunications Union (ITU) has adopted ATSC 3.0 as THE WORLDWIDE recommended digital IP broadcast standard, paving the way for countries around the world to evaluate and use the IP-based digital ATSC 3.0 system, so it's likely going to expand globally. At present there are several different standards including European DVB-T, Japanese/ Brazilian ISDB-T, and Chinese DTMB platforms. Of course ATSC isn't just USA. South Korea even did terrestrial UHD format broadcast in 4K of the 2018 Winter Olympics in Pyeongchang using ATSC 3.0 which it adopted as the first country on board with ATSC 3.0 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softworkz 3349 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 (edited) Hello, softworkz is offline. My name is Mr. Dolby. I just wanted to express how incredibly happy I am that I was able to control the ATSC 3.0 spec authoring process in a way that it includes some of my latest (as always) practically useless but extremely value-gaining patents. And when those millions of households do not have the required amount of speakers set up at defined positions with a receiver that can really calculate and deal with the required 3D sound model - I don't care. I'll find a vendor who will pay me crazy amounts of money for selling him an "Atmos" sticker that he can put on the mono speaker he is selling (calling it 'sound bar').. Damn how lucky am I? It's almost as great as in the 80ies where I could force tape recorder vendors to increase the white noise in the trebles unless the user presses a button with my name on it. Things are just running for me.... Mr. Dolby PS: The one thing that I really regret is that I came a little bit too late to file a patent on volume fader controls. Edited October 12, 2020 by softworkz 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlo 4331 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Mr. Dolby, First sorry you're having so many issues with your new PATENTED specs on audio that just don't work as you thought they would. Frankly some of the sound bars with those nice ATMOS stickers on them sound as good as 7.2 system since your audio tracks are wacked and manufactures get the core sound incorrect. But have no fear, ATSC 3.0 is your friend as most will use AC-4 (7.1.4) but unfortunately for you aren't locked to AC-4 as it also supports MPEG-H 3D Audio which is also object based, can support up to 64 speakers with 128 audio codec channels and will likely be the death of Dolby. It truly brings the movie theater experience to home system unlike Atmos. Personally I still prefer DTS-HD (even normal DTS) over Almost sound, err Atmos sound as I can actually hear my sub woofers being used and the sound is more natural sounding. DTS even works better for most people with soundbars as well, with or without your sticker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softworkz 3349 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 (edited) Liar! I have patents! I'll sue you and everybody else who will dare to leave out Dolby buttons, Dolby stickers or Dolbý-Video-Intros. I'll sue every vendor to death until he does what I say. I will catch them, I will throw them into my "Laboratories" where I have never developed anything, instead those are made to torture my enemies: before, during and after we are suing them for patent infringement. In my latest project I am filing a patent about innovative methods for summing up 2 and 2.. Nobody will anymore be allowed to say that it's '4' without paying me. What a great world... Edited October 12, 2020 by softworkz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrbee99 1561 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Mr Dolby. Are you allowed to say Dolby, Colby, Dolby without a little TM in a circle somewhere ? I do hope you don't have to sue yourself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troyhough 57 Posted October 12, 2020 Author Share Posted October 12, 2020 8 minutes ago, softworkz said: Liar! I have patents! I'll sue you and everybody else who will dare to leave out Dolby buttons, Dolby stickers or Dolbý-Video-Intros. I'll sue every vendor to death until he does what I say. I will catch them, I will throw them into my "Laboratories" where I have never developed anything, instead those are made to torture my enemies: before, during and after we are suing them for patent infringement. Are we talking about Bose? Oh WAIT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softworkz 3349 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 I don't understand the question - in order to get rich, I'd even sue myself of course! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlo 4331 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 10 minutes ago, softworkz said: In my latest project I am filing a patent about innovative methods for summing up 2 and 2.. Nobody will anymore be allowed to say that it's '4' without paying me. 4 sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softworkz 3349 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 (edited) BOSE? - Bloody amateurs. They need to develop something to sell their technical fairy tales. But I - I don't even have to... Mr. Dolby Edited October 12, 2020 by softworkz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speechles 1929 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 https://www.atsc.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Sarnoff.pdf What about David Sarnoff? Blame him.. lol. https://www.nytimes.com/1988/09/21/business/business-technology-hdtv-will-us-be-in-the-picture.html Evyerthing cool happened in the 80's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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