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Unexpected star '*' button behavior


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#1 MisterMoonlight OFFLINE  

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Posted 28 January 2019 - 09:24 PM

I know this problem could be set on the lower priority task list  ;)

 

Using lubuntu 16.04 64bits server emby 4.0.1.0, and latest roku version from december 2018 (3.0.134 i guess). This problem is easily reproductible.

 

When i am going into the film section and play a movie and then press on the roku remote star * button, there is a menu that appears quickly on screen half a second than get back while the video is still playing. If you are pressing several times the * button on the roku remote quickly, at some point the menu will eventually getting to stick on screen on top of the video while the movie is still playing!

 

This * button behavior is a little bit on the confusion side for the old timer of roku apps which used to see in mostly all apps a pop up menu getting on screen when pressing the * button while at the same time the playing movie is automatically paused until you exit the star button menu in some way (which makes the movie restarts by itself normally with the applied options changed in the star menu. I know it because of using a foreign language, i am using the star button most of the time in all these differents apps in an attempt to enable close caption which is mostly available in these popup menus from all these apps.

 

So adding a close caption choice in the popup menu and making sure that the video is pausing while the button is pressed and the pop menu appears on screen would remove the confusion seen in the current design...


Edited by MisterMoonlight, 28 January 2019 - 09:26 PM.


#2 Gilgamesh_48 OFFLINE  

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Posted 28 January 2019 - 09:35 PM

Just guessing but I believe that you are using a Roku 3 or other Roku below the Ultra as the Ultra does not have this behavior but the Roku 3s do.

 

See the following post in the beta Roku forum to see my original report and the response:

https://emby.media/c...back-on-roku-3/

The beta that was in place at that time is, I think, the current release.

 

It seems that it is not considered a bug even though I think it is BUT the bug could be in the Roku not in Emby.



#3 MisterMoonlight OFFLINE  

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Posted 28 January 2019 - 10:23 PM

 

 

ust guessing but I believe that you are using a Roku 3

 

I got this behavior on the roku streaming stick 3600...



#4 Gilgamesh_48 OFFLINE  

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Posted 28 January 2019 - 10:37 PM

I got this behavior on the roku streaming stick 3600...

My full quote on that subject was:

Just guessing but I believe that you are using a Roku 3 or other Roku below the Ultra...

The sticks, all the sticks, are below the Ultra.



#5 ebr OFFLINE  

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 11:41 AM

We understand the behavior on these older devices is not ideal.  The issue is that the "*" button cannot give you all the options that should be available to you.  So we try to re-route you to our OSD instead but this only works on some devices.



#6 Gilgamesh_48 OFFLINE  

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 12:15 PM

We understand the behavior on these older devices is not ideal.  The issue is that the "*" button cannot give you all the options that should be available to you.  So we try to re-route you to our OSD instead but this only works on some devices.

 

It actually does not work during playback on any Roku device.

 

The * button behavior in the menus is different than that playback. The following pertains to that behavior during playback. The * button works fine in the static displays in Emby but NOT during playback.

 

On the Ultra, the most advanced of the Roku devices, the * button brings up Roku's OSD for control of captioning, audio track, volume mode and accessibility so, clearly, any rerouting is not happening at all on the Ultra.

 

Also, in some indirect communication I have had with Roku I have been informed that the * button during playback is supposed to remain in Roku's exclusive control and any attempt to override Roku's exclusive control will result in the app not being approved.

 

Since the attempts to override Roku's * button actions during playback are clearly being unsuccessful I think it would be well to be sure that the * button is in no way intercepted during playback and just allow Roku to handle it.


Edited by Gilgamesh_48, 29 January 2019 - 12:16 PM.


#7 ebr OFFLINE  

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 12:42 PM

Since the attempts to override Roku's * button actions during playback are clearly being unsuccessful I think it would be well to be sure that the * button is in no way intercepted during playback and just allow Roku to handle it.

 

Yes, that is probably what we need to do at this point but, unfortunately, it is going to result in people saying that some things are not possible on the device (like selecting external subtitles).



#8 Gilgamesh_48 OFFLINE  

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 12:57 PM

Yes, that is probably what we need to do at this point but, unfortunately, it is going to result in people saying that some things are not possible on the device (like selecting external subtitles).

 

How do people access external sub now? The * button does not bring up anything except the Roku menu or nothing so there seems to be no access anyway.

 

You could add that functionality to what comes up when the "down" arrow is pressed. That menu seems to be the logical place for all active playback related functions to be accessed, many are there already.

 

One of the weaknesses of Emby is that there are too many related settings/functions that are set/accessed in different locations (See how many user related settings are accessed from different places) and I think every opportunity should be taken to consolidate the scattered functionality so consider this an opportunity not a challenge or a bug.



#9 ebr OFFLINE  

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 01:04 PM

You could add that functionality to what comes up when the "down" arrow is pressed. That menu seems to be the logical place for all active playback related functions to be accessed, many are there already.

 

That's already how its done.  All relevant operations for our playback are available on OUR OSD.  There is no need for the Roku built in menu during our playback which is why we were trying to override it.



#10 speechles OFFLINE  

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 02:57 PM

There was an issue in how the application was deciding when to block the star menu press with an ECP keypress of back.

 

Firmware: 9.0.0

 

The app was only looking at the last two numbers if they are greater than 50. Since firmware 7.50 is when Roku said applications should no longer capture the * button. The equation was not future proofed. So as firmware version 8.0.0 happens you fall below 50 again and it blocks the star menu again. We have fixed the problem now and future proofed this detection. It will not happen again as per Roku rules. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. :)


Edited by speechles, 29 January 2019 - 02:58 PM.


#11 Gilgamesh_48 OFFLINE  

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 03:10 PM

There was an issue in how the application was deciding when to block the star menu press with an ECP keypress of back.

 

Firmware: 9.0.0

 

The app was only looking at the last two numbers if they are greater than 50. Since firmware 7.50 is when Roku said applications should no longer capture the * button. The equation was not future proofed. So as firmware version 8.0.0 happens you fall below 50 again and it blocks the star menu again. We have fixed the problem now and future proofed this detection. It will not happen again as per Roku rules. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. :)

 

Somehow I just knew it was Roku's fault. ;) Personally I do not think Roku should take any functionality from any of the keys except for the "home" key and that should always exit to Roku's home.

 

The inconsistent way Roku insists on handling things must make life hell for developers! Do you know that there are apps (Hulu for one unless that has changed) where the "home" key does not exit? I guess that if you have enough money to throw around any exception is possible.

 

To paraphrase George Orwell, "All apps are equal but some are more equal than others."



#12 speechles OFFLINE  

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 03:21 PM

Somehow I just knew it was Roku's fault. ;) Personally I do not think Roku should take any functionality from any of the keys except for the "home" key and that should always exit to Roku's home.

 

The inconsistent way Roku insists on handling things must make life hell for developers! Do you know that there are apps (Hulu for one unless that has changed) where the "home" key does not exit? I guess that if you have enough money to throw around any exception is possible.

 

To paraphrase George Orwell, "All apps are equal but some are more equal than others."

 

Those other apps have access to the Native Development Kit. Which allows low level kernel access to the linux core. You can write in native C++ or any other language you feel comfortable with. It allows much more flexibility. But like you said, this comes with a price. It also requires having access to the NDKA along with an Roku engineer for you to coordinate with to push your releases. This is cost prohibitive unless you have money to burn. This comes at an even higher price if the engineer is contracted to supply maintenance like Netflix does. The costs associated with this make it unattractive. We can live within the limits of scene graph. Most apps do this. There are a very small number that use NDKA because it is so expensive. 

 

The other thing with firmware 7.5.x came the RokuTV. These devices use the * button to control more than just the Roku stuff. It also allows control of the Television functionality. So to have an app capture this would take away that functionality. To make it easier for their firmware developers to code it was probably easier to just set this in stone for all devices rather than just for RokuTV. Make a rule that no app should capture the * button if the device reports it is on firmware 7.5 or higher. It was a simple request and it is our bad for not following it. Apologies.



#13 Gilgamesh_48 OFFLINE  

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 03:36 PM

...
It was a simple request and it is our bad for not following it. Apologies.

 

No apology needed. I am quite thankful that the developers here actually respond to questions/requests and even actually fix what is wrong if possible and explain when it is not.

 

Again, thank you.

 

[aside comments]

Now if someone, anyone, would actually fix audiobooks so that FF/RW/Resume actually works correctly. I know that is not your responsibility but it is the one real lack of Emby and the one thing that keeps Plex running on my Shield TV. Plex is not perfect for that use as resume does not work at all after 90% is played and FF is clunky at best. But Plex at least works for audiobooks and, for now, Emby does not.



#14 speechles OFFLINE  

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 04:12 PM

[aside comment]

Reference: Issue #214: [server issue] Add AudioBook Support



#15 Gilgamesh_48 OFFLINE  

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 04:27 PM

[aside comment]

Reference: Issue #214: [server issue] Add AudioBook Support

 

But that is about full audiobook support and I am just selfish enough to hope for a little support to fill my needs. I have no audiobooks that are spread over multiple files and I do not need, or even want, metadata for my audiobooks.

 

I simply want FF/RW/resume functionality. That is all I need but every time "audiobook support" comes up it is treated like a deep,dark and difficult proposition. I would be very happy with a VERY simple "music" like solution where I browse by folder and file and where FF/RW/resume actually work. 

 

But this is, probably, the wrong place for this discussion and I am, probably, one of very few users that only need the simple solution I mentioned.

 

And, yes, I will say again that I have hundreds of audiobooks that are each joined into one big mp3 file for each book. It is just the easiest way for me to play and access my books.



#16 speechles OFFLINE  

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 05:38 PM

Actually the request points to your previous post as the URL to that post is in the issue tracker. In this way in your own words is described what is intended and if some internal discussion needs to take place on how to do this it happens in the issue tracker. We debate frequently this way. Communication is important. But adding it to the issue tracker this puts the issue front and center. Your audio book problem is at the top presently (since it sorts by newest added). So it will get eyes and lead those eyes here. :)


Edited by speechles, 29 January 2019 - 05:40 PM.


#17 Gilgamesh_48 OFFLINE  

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 06:24 PM

Actually the request points to your previous post as the URL to that post is in the issue tracker. In this way in your own words is described what is intended and if some internal discussion needs to take place on how to do this it happens in the issue tracker. We debate frequently this way. Communication is important. But adding it to the issue tracker this puts the issue front and center. Your audio book problem is at the top presently (since it sorts by newest added). So it will get eyes and lead those eyes here. :)

 

But I don't want eyes, I want brains!!! ;) :) :P :rolleyes:

If I only had a brain...



#18 Gilgamesh_48 OFFLINE  

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 06:46 PM

[aside comment]

Reference: Issue #214: [server issue] Add AudioBook Support

 

Where/how do I follow/view that and other "issues?"

 

My curiosity is greater than my ability to find things on my own.



#19 ebr OFFLINE  

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 11:05 AM

Where/how do I follow/view that and other "issues?"

 

My curiosity is greater than my ability to find things on my own.

 

Hi.  You cannot.  It is our own internal tracking.

 

Thanks.



#20 speechles OFFLINE  

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 10:49 PM

Where/how do I follow/view that and other "issues?"

 

My curiosity is greater than my ability to find things on my own.

 

Yeah, the tracker is for internal digestion. But I reference it to you (transparency) so that if there is another issue we can tag that one the same and get it recognized under the same issue. Then it helps us to read through the tracker as eyes to tell what users have reported as needing fixing or as wanted features. This speeds up communication/resolution having this available. The rest of the dialogue is how they are prioritized and whether it is even viable for us to attempt to fix. Sometimes the issues are Roku firmware bugs and they just stay on the tracker forever as an issue. This makes it look like we have more issues than we actually do. So it isn't something the public can use reliably to tell issues. It is more for us to debate privately how we can help these users in a way that makes the best use of the time we have. Putting the horse before the cart. Making the most of the time we have together.

 

Side Note: If you had access to the tracker you would see several times where I fight(debate) to get users the features they want. I am your advocate to help get features pushed through on Roku. Together we can build a better tomorrow. :)


Edited by speechles, 30 January 2019 - 11:16 PM.





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