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Emby Devs & Users learn from the Plex Debacle.

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#21 chyron8472 OFFLINE  

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 05:13 PM

I would just like to say, that while I'm impatient for v3.6 stable to be released---especially so I can move forward with building my audiobook library in Emby---I really appreciate that the Emby devs are taking the time necessary to iron out bugs and perfect the software for stable use. It was so annoying for Plex to release a new feature or an update to an existing feature where the implementation was almost always half-baked.

 

I'm grateful that you guys are taking the time to iron things out properly even though users (including myself) are clamoring for an update. @Luke @ebr


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#22 Luke OFFLINE  

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 05:23 PM

Thanks for the feedback !



#23 adamstewiegreen OFFLINE  

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 04:17 AM

I saw this article: https://techcrunch.c...scriptions/amp/

Damn, I'm glad I ditched Plex! When I left the forums the ninjas were trying to convince everyone that the focus was still on OUR media. Well, it's becoming less and less obvious that is the case.

Shitty movies - with ads? I'll watch tv for that.

To quote the article: In Plex, content is organized not by source but by type – like music, movies, TV, etc. So when Plex rolls out premium content and subscriptions, it would show its users what sort of movies they have access to based on their subscriptions within the app’s movies tab. The same goes for TV and so on.

That is exactly what I - and a lot of others - do not want. Prepare for more people coming this way Emby!

Edited by adamstewiegreen, 08 January 2019 - 04:21 AM.


#24 chyron8472 OFFLINE  

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 09:48 AM

That is exactly what many Plex forum users thought Plex's endgame was by forcibly combining libraries by type. That Plex would bundle subscription-based content in with one's local media.

After the Roku update fiasco, Elan told people on the forum that Plex was giving serious consideration to rethinking their current UI model. I think @cayars even straight up asked him if that was the plan and he said yes.
 
[edit]
https://forums.plex....-plex/351577/82

Just to clarify. The new menu system is being removed and we get our list of libraries back?


That is pretty much the plan, yes.

[/edit]

So it would seem they are talking out of both sides of their mouth.

Edited by chyron8472, 08 January 2019 - 11:03 AM.


#25 mgworek OFFLINE  

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 11:11 AM

Grabbing some popcorn and heading over to their forums this morning. It should be a fun time.



#26 cayars OFFLINE  

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 11:22 AM

Damn, I'm glad I ditched Plex! When I left the forums the ninjas were trying to convince everyone that the focus was still on OUR media. Well, it's becoming less and less obvious that is the case.

EDIT: Sorry for the mini vent coming up but it felt good to type and blow off some steam. So frustrating... LOL

 

Not this former Ninja. :)  I was always pretty outspoken as to what I like/don't like and where problems lie.  Same here but there isn't much not to like or pick apart as it's pretty solid and well thought out. :)

 

I was getting really upset with "bonehead" designs being incorporated into the product (can't delegate recording to others, can't share network tuners with other apps, can't allow Live TV access for people not part of "home") that were done ON PURPOSE. Lack of testing/fixing that allows "TITLE" of EPG to be the file name so the 4pm "NFL GAME" overwrites the 1pm game and the 8:20 game overwrites the 4pm game.  That was fixed pretty quickly as it only took 10 months to diagnose/troubleshoot and mostly fix.  Turns out it was designed that way on purpose as well because the main dev like to have his "news" overwrite the previous version so he only had 1 file with the current news (of the same title).  It was like pulling your own teeth trying to get him to understand how bad this was for sports (and other shows).  Clearly a person put in charge of something that had never researched or really used advanced features of a PVR/DVR before.

 

Forcing PMP2 style UI on new platforms when the users didn't like it.  The Ninjas and Employees didn't like it either in early testing.  I/we pointed out all the short comings from day one in private with the team.  All but 2 Ninjas fully agreed. But the "type first" menu system was what they needed/wanted for upcoming content they had in mind.  It surely didn't add much for the "local" experience (wrecked it) so you don't have to be a rocket scientist to ask why did they keep pushing it so hard?

 

The decision to pull plugins over a year ago (yep) and to replace that with Internet based content they control didn't sit well with me either. Nearly ever Ninja disliked it as they were the main plugin devs. Nothing wrong with new internet based additional content but they won't even allow you to turn it off for each person in the admin console, because they aren't "your users".  Plex always/does feel that anyone running client software is THERE customer, not your user.

 

They have clearly (to everyone using the software) been focusing on a lot of things NOT "core" which is why people run the servers (for LOCAL MEDIA) in the first place!  Maybe 1 in 5 things seems to still be "local" oriented these days.  Well much higher if you count removing "core" features. :(

 

Cloud Server was just an utter joke.  Works, breaks, works, breaks.  You never knew if your files would play or your server would be up.  If you had a big library you could actually exhaust your Google Drive transfer rate each day just from the background processes.  Here's a good one.  I had most of my media duplicated in the cloud on Google at the time which made it easy.  I started on day one BEFORE it was released to the public and my library on the last day when it was pulled/closed  had still not fully indexed!!!  It was only about 3/4 done.    Total waste of dev time because they tried to spin up normal Plex servers with minimal mods instead of rewriting parts that they should have like pulling a file once so you can create bif files, index, probe, deep analysis, etc

 

They broke Cloud Sync and instead of fixing it, removed it.  Their "Optimize" is highly broken now, because it doesn't work correctly with "streaming brain".  Streaming brain looks at total media bitrate (video, audio, subs, etc) while Optimize only worried about video size.  Hence all the local optimizations or cloud synced optimizations didn't work with streaming brain as the overall bitrate of the produced files exceeded streaming brain limits..  Doh  The only client that usually got things correct was the Roku client because the main dev had long before created his own version of "streaming brain" and similar logic that actually worked correctly so he never really used the server version until the new UI release.

 

I of course got kicked form the Ninja program (and some others recently) for being o positional when we were pointing out these inconsistencies and problems with the designs and change of focus.  Left hand doesn't know Right hand exists, let alone what it's doing syndrome. "How can you be a team player when you don't believe in the team?"  Good question.

 

Yes @cayars did call him out on it in the forums as he was being coy answering questions. :)  He wasn't clear in intention and acting like it was the first time they were hearing these comments/complaints from users about how bad the new UI was. I of course knew all the back channel stuff on this from day one and got into long, long (hours) discussions with him and the teams in chat on everything you see/read from users in the forums.  I had pointed it all out before anyone other than a Ninja ever saw it (the UI).  None of the complaints were new and they were getting this feedback during development from me and other Ninjas.

 

A good test of your own software, is how much you use it yourself.  When employees & Ninjas use Kodi, Infuse, PMP1, early APKs (side loaded)  vs their own new clients, that should be a red flag in itself but never was/is that I know of.

 

Plex is clearly moving in another direction besides just local media. They could do it pretty smoothly by not fighting the admins but they have their own way of doing things unfortunately.  I'm a big fan of external content (even with ads) if it enhances the local media experience and the admin is in control of the use of the content for each user.  I'd love to see Pluto TV, Tubi TV or similar added to Emby if they could get a cut of the ad space.  Content is good if control is there!

 

How awesome would it be to start a server and have 300+ channels to choose from (Pluto) for "Live TV" without ever adding or buying a tuner (just like it works in Android TV LiveChannels)?  You may only want to use 10 of them but still that's "free" content.  How awesome would it be to click a few buttons and have Tubi TVs Movies and TV Shows as separate libraries on your server?  They key is in the integration and admin control and not just adding it on top with no control to try and collect ad $.  One is an enhancement and one is an intrusion and this is what Plex doesn't understand yet.

 

EDIT: Mods feel free to remove this message if you want.  Nothing really new here that hasn't been posted over at Plex but it fits the title & thread so...


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#27 gene0915 OFFLINE  

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 10:00 PM

Ha, after reading this: https://techcrunch.c...-subscriptions/ .......... I can see it now.

 

In the not to distant future, you decide to watch a movie on your Plex server (from your own library) and before it starts, you get slapped with an ad.

 

Or, a friend searches your library for a movie and the mighty Plex Media Portal presents them 20 services where your friend can PURCHASE/RENT the movie and buried allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the way at the bottom, is a link to the movie on your Plex server that your friend can enjoy for free. In a very small font.

 

LOL! These media companies, if they make deals with Plex, will not want end users to be given the option to watch a movie from a friends media server for free. Especially a movie that one of these media companies own. As Plex is forced to turn a profit from their Vulture Capitalist investment firm, they'll be forced to severely restrict, or straight up eliminate, peoples ability to serve up and stream their private files.

 

Plex Inc: Hi HBO, we'd like to make a deal with you so you can sell your movies through our awesome media portal.

 

HBO: Well, after munging through the meta data you provided, we see that people are PROBABLY streaming Game of Thrones for free from their friends server. If you want us to sell content through you, you need to remove the ability for server admins to have a streaming library or block them from streaming their own content to their friends but they can still stream locally within their own network.

 

Plex Inc: No problamo, already working on it! We're pushing out some God awful user interfaces and leaving major bugs all over the place. Our goal is to drive server admins away so all those Plex client installs will come to US for content. And by 'us', I mean all you big media companies!

 

HBO: Hmmm, why would people keep Plex clients installed if you piss server admins off?

 

Plex Inc: Because end users are stupid?

 

HBO: Hmmmm, why would end users use the Plex client for HBO shows when they can just grab the HBO app?

 

Plex Inc: .............profit....... er wait a minute, what?

 

HBO: Eh, kill off media sharing and I guess we can partner up with you?! But we want hardcore DRM throughout and ads. Lots of ads.

 

Plex Inc: Cowboy up!


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#28 cayars OFFLINE  

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 02:21 PM

Funny,

 

Plex won't put ads in front or back of your media.  It would only be inside media that is free streamed from THEIR servers.  Elan has already made that public.

 

Here is what I wonder about.  They have already publicly commented they are adding DRM to their clients.  Is this DRM going to be ALWAYS ON or only used selectively when connected to 3rd party content that requires it and not Plex servers (our servers).

 

If it's always on then there is going to be massive outcry in their forums.  Anyone with ripped movies files using some watermark formats such as Cinavia will stop dead without playing.  Same thing happens when some blu ray players are used as clients.

 

Anyone want to wager on that outcome? :)


Edited by cayars, 09 January 2019 - 02:22 PM.


#29 speechles OFFLINE  

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 02:36 PM

BTW, I called this long ago that plex was going to monetize their platform to become like netflix.

 

https://emby.media/c...miere/?p=486603

 

Here is the second paragraph of my post: 

 

Posted 11 September 2017 - 10:00 PM

 

I agree the attitude is somewhat of a money grab. Just buy a bigger device pool they say. Rent yourself some more device space for a month. It does look like a pure money grab. Hopefully some of that money goes into addressing long standing complaints instead of just going to golden toothbrushes, gold-flake toilet paper, diamond chandeliers, dom perignon bubble baths and all the other perks running emby must afford the developers. Sounds good right? Sitting on stacks of hundred dollar bills users drop onto your chair. So nice it must feel. But I doubt emby is feeling this "good life". This would be more the lifestyles of the plex developers, since they make 5000x what emby does. Plex even has angel investor guys buying shares, so you can bet plex wishes they could monetize their platform as a legitimate distributor, like netflix, and then get that IPO gold. See how they are buying up content producers, and buying access to stream copyrights for distribution? Its an agenda for them. So before you go blaming the little guy, at least point the finger at the bigger guy for making this behavior acceptable. Emby cant allow you to be a pirate and do the kodi shuffle on thousands of devices, because then emby is put in the same position kodi is. The device limit is obviously to cure this symptom before it can become an epidemic. You pay, you play.

 

This is why they no longer maintain their forum. It is pretty much left as fodder except for the rare instances where they try to "stem the flow". As in cover a huge wound with merely a band aid. It doesn't stop the bleeding. 

In the 6 years+ I've used Emby there have been good times and bad times. Lately there is nothing but good times. In the beginning, there was some mean spirits and hurt feelings. RedShirt, Tikuf, Gcw07.. lots will go.. who? To those who remember them, those were the bad times. It doesn't feel that way to me any longer even being sort of on the inside. You still see the forest for the trees. Your media, your way. That core belief has always been the roadmap. I admire that. That is why I am here. :)


Edited by speechles, 09 January 2019 - 02:40 PM.

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#30 One2Go OFFLINE  

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 07:03 PM

Plex Inc: Hi HBO, we'd like to make a deal with you so you can sell your movies through our awesome media portal.

 

HBO: Well, after munging through the meta data you provided, we see that people are PROBABLY streaming Game of Thrones for free from their friends server. If you want us to sell content through you, you need to remove the ability for server admins to have a streaming library or block them from streaming their own content to their friends but they can still stream locally within their own network.

 

Plex Inc: No problamo, already working on it! We're pushing out some God awful user interfaces and leaving major bugs all over the place. Our goal is to drive server admins away so all those Plex client installs will come to US for content. And by 'us', I mean all you big media companies!

 

HBO: Hmmm, why would people keep Plex clients installed if you piss server admins off?

 

Plex Inc: Because end users are stupid?

 

HBO: Hmmmm, why would end users use the Plex client for HBO shows when they can just grab the HBO app?

 

Plex Inc: .............profit....... er wait a minute, what?

 

HBO: Eh, kill off media sharing and I guess we can partner up with you?! But we want hardcore DRM throughout and ads. Lots of ads.

 

Plex Inc: Cowboy up!

 

Finished my popcorn while reading the Plex forum about Plex alternatives with over 300 posts. It was a fun time, nothing greater when a Plex co-founder has to explain and defend the Tech Crunch article. Also glad to be back in a forum where sanity rules.



#31 adamstewiegreen OFFLINE  

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 07:43 PM

@One2Go

I read through the same post, it was crazy. Elan made himself, tech crunch and the Plex CEO look incompetent. I couldn't believe it.

Needless to say, it was a fun read.

#32 mgworek OFFLINE  

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 06:38 AM

Finished my popcorn while reading the Plex forum about Plex alternatives with over 300 posts. It was a fun time, nothing greater when a Plex co-founder has to explain and defend the Tech Crunch article. Also glad to be back in a forum where sanity rules.


I’m surprised they didn’t lock that thread yet. Someone created a new post about the article and they locked in less then 24 hours.

#33 adrianwi OFFLINE  

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 06:56 AM

I'm so glad I jumped ship when they changed their privacy policy.  Plex has well and truly lost its way :(


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#34 notla49285 OFFLINE  

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 07:18 AM

@adrianwi I'm a privacy policy refugee also lol.

 

I can see what people mean about Elan cherry picking responses, holy crap! I'm intrigued to see how bad this Roku app is but I'm not gonna sign up for Plex again just to see it.


Edited by notla49285, 10 January 2019 - 07:20 AM.


#35 Gilgamesh_48 OFFLINE  

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 11:04 AM

@adrianwi I'm a privacy policy refugee also lol.

 

I can see what people mean about Elan cherry picking responses, holy crap! I'm intrigued to see how bad this Roku app is but I'm not gonna sign up for Plex again just to see it.

 

I actually pretty much like the new Plex Roku app. It is NOT the reason that I am now using Emby for 97-98% of my media consumption.

 

The primary reason I am now with Emby is speed in almost all aspects of using Emby vs Plex. At about the same time they were introducing the Roku app Plex reached some level of critical mass with all the useless fluff like Tidal, podcasts, news and other crap addons that seem to serve nothing but to slow down Plex while adding nothing for most users.

 

Plex is now at least three time shower than Emby in most function and some are even slower than that.

 

Emby usually starts actually playing a video file within 4-6 seconds while the same action for Plex can often be longer than 20-25 seconds and often the difference is even greater.

 

Plex is like having a basset hound when what you want is a doberman.


Edited by Gilgamesh_48, 10 January 2019 - 11:04 AM.


#36 rene.teniere OFFLINE  

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 12:23 PM

I actually pretty much like the new Plex Roku app. It is NOT the reason that I am now using Emby for 97-98% of my media consumption.

 

The primary reason I am now with Emby is speed in almost all aspects of using Emby vs Plex. At about the same time they were introducing the Roku app Plex reached some level of critical mass with all the useless fluff like Tidal, podcasts, news and other crap addons that seem to serve nothing but to slow down Plex while adding nothing for most users.

 

Plex is now at least three time shower than Emby in most function and some are even slower than that.

 

Emby usually starts actually playing a video file within 4-6 seconds while the same action for Plex can often be longer than 20-25 seconds and often the difference is even greater.

 

Plex is like having a basset hound when what you want is a doberman.

 

I agree completely. Those are the same reasons I switched. That and reading through the forums really opened my eyes as to the company philosophy, and I couldn't in good conscience support such a product.



#37 Arly (Sprinkles) OFFLINE  

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 08:32 PM

So, so, so glad I went with Emby before ever thinking of Plex.

 

Seems like I made the right decision.

 

Luke and Team, don't ever do this. 



#38 JaScoMa OFFLINE  

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 11:44 AM

I too am a convert from Plex to Emby; about over a month or so ago.  Mainly because the latest update to Plex was that the server was deciding whether my configuration could play my pre-encoded movies or not; deciding that it could not and then decode them all down to DVD quality.  So for every movie, I had to force directplay.

When this occurred, I began researching alternatives for my PI3b+, found Emby, found DietPI and haven't looked back.  Was very impressed by how quickly responses to issues were answered and resolved within the Emby forums; with direct answers from the admins and developers of Emby.  As others have noted, you'd have an issue with Plex, look in their forums and see old postings which were months old from people with the same issues, not being resolved and not having anyone which deals with Plex answering questions to the issues.

I ended up purchasing a Premiere key mainly to support Emby and its developers, even though I don't use all the features which come with having the Premiere.

Thank you to the Emby team..



#39 Luke OFFLINE  

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 11:48 AM

Thanks for the feedback !



#40 meatball OFFLINE  

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 10:52 PM

This is what is not CLEAR to you. I’ll try and explain it on a very simple basis which I’m sure you will STILL disagree with and THIS is the heart of the matter and what determines the way you design/program.

These “users” aren’t YOUR users. These are MY/OUR users.

 

This is the fundamental difference and why some of their users feel alienated (myself included). The server owner is the customer and that's where the focus should be. It's taken a good year of me for to accept that the product I absolutely loved is going to continue to steer away from what originally drew me to it. I still feel a little weird being here but am very grateful that Emby has picked up where Plex veered off course. 







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