Marc_G 92 Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 Hi everyone, I can't believe how many challenges I'm running into replacing my old HTPC/old AVR with new HTPC front end / new HDMI AVR. The latest one takes me back a ways. Basically, my small HTPC (windows 10, Intel-based Tronsmart Ara X5 plus) is connected via HDMI to a Denon AVR-S720W receiver, and from there to the TV (Panasonic 1080p 60ST60). Sometimes, not always, when I turn off the AVR, then later turn it back on, the display comes up as 1024x768 instead of the standard 1080p. And the sound might (or might not) have been switched from HDMI to Speakers. Or, the display may still be 1080p but any windows that were open full screen (ET, or Kodi) are now in a small screen. Ughghg. What's the current fix? Back in the early days of HDMI and computers, I recall "pin 19 fix" or EDID spoofing and other such things. Please tell me there's a more elegant solution with today's hardware... it would be hard to believe there's not a software checkbox in Windows of such to ignore display/audio disconnect events. Please advise. If I need to buy a hack, I'll do it (please recommend a reputable one), it just seems so ten years ago... :-) Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellomade 140 Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 I have the same problem with my old Yahama RX-V479 - the only reliable solution I could find was the HDMI Detective. http://www.gefen.com/kvm/ext-hd-edidpn.jsp?prod_id=14859 Yes - there are other ways to force an EDID but they all proved to have flaws (for me anyway). The HDMI Detective is always on and just works. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc_G 92 Posted December 27, 2016 Author Share Posted December 27, 2016 Wow! That's pricy! I was thinking a $20 dongle kind of thing. Here's a lower-end version that probably does much of the same thing: http://www.dx.com/p/16-mode-hdmi-edid-feeder-black-373949#.WGKaW00iyUl It all just seems so... 1980's radio shack kludgey! Sigh, but thanks for the response! Shouldn't modern AVRs have built in solutions for this? Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellomade 140 Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 It's not really the AVRs fault. It is your HTPC that fails to establish an HDMI connection in a timely manner so your graphics card can read the EDID from your display. You can try leaving the power on to your AVR or when you power up just wait a few seconds for the TV and AVR to fully power on before you power up the HTPC. All the HDMI Detective does is pretend to be the display you have with the power always on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc_G 92 Posted December 27, 2016 Author Share Posted December 27, 2016 Thanks. So much for me to learn. In my application, the HTPC is on 100% of the time. It never powers down. It's a tiny thing and uses little power. The AVR and TV get powered on and off as needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkss12 296 Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 I have a very simiar setup as yours, Tronsmart Ara X5 (original one) running both Emby server and Emby Theater and connected via HDMI to Denon AVR-S700W to my 2016 Samsung smart TV. Tried to test your theory about the problems your were having, but now my ET will not even play any videos at all, it just has the colored circles going round and round. However, I do not recall having the problems you described. In order to test further, I will have to figure out why ET is not playing a video, when it used to work. Perhaps someone can look at my log and see why my ET is not playing any videos. I tried several different videos, but none will play with ET. They will play with the Chrome player for Emby. video not playing Log.txt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkss12 296 Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 I played a video using my Chrome browser, and turned off the TV several times, had no effect on the video playing, TV still showed 1080P. Turned off the AVR several times, it would stop the play back of the video, but the TV resolution stayed at 1080P. One issue, I do have, is that sometimes, when going from different devices and back to my Tronsmart, the Windows 10 home screen does not show up, this is because somehow my AVR goes to zone2 audio. When it does that, I have to power off my AVR and then power it on again to get it to go to the main zone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc_G 92 Posted December 27, 2016 Author Share Posted December 27, 2016 It's amazing with all the equipment out there that you have a very similar computer / AVR combo to me! Thanks for running some tests. I'll note that in the 2 days I've been playing with my new AVR, I've gotten very inconsistent results with respect to the "what happens when I turn stuff back on." I believe the order of operations matters, and it's complicated by the fact that I currently have things configured to send control signals between the TV and AVR (turn one on or off, the other goes on or off, but it doesn't always work out that way--I may disable this function and see what results I get). Also, the "sound switched from HDMI to speakers" has only happened once in about 20 on-off cycles. Thanks for looking into this to help! Sorry you are having ET issues... I did a thread about the spinning circle. Sometimes ET goes a bit wonky. I have found ET to work just fine on my old AThlon X2 system, and just fine on my 2014 vintage i5 system, but it really struggles on the Tronsmart (Ara X5 Plus). On the Tronsmart it seems very buggy and struggles with playback (see my flickery video thread, I think you participated actually), and this was a shock since ET seemed rock solid elsewhere. ET doesn't seem optimized for the capabilities of that little Tronsmart box yet. Testing will continue today. However, Emby-specific tests may be down for a bit because the postman just dropped off the last parts I need to rebuild my Emby Server. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastrmind11 717 Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 +1 for the HDMI Detective. Yes it's pricey, but it just works. HDMI is a pain for stuff like this because of the EDID/HDCP junk . It's possible to spoof the EDID on Linux, and I've not tried it w/ Windows, but if you google "windows edid override" you will probably find some useful information. I haven't used mine in a year or 2, so I'd be willing to part with it if you're interested. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swynol 375 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 i used the pin 19 mod on 2 of my HTPCs that run through amps. never had a problem. If your not sure what pin 19 mod is. you tape over (using electric tape) PIN 19 on the HDMI cable that goes into the HTPC end. The results is PIN19 is the plug and play pin, so taping over this pin prevents the HTPC thinking that a display is 'disconnected' when you turn your AVR off. Which means no change in resolution and no messing with emby theater. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=hdmi+pin+19+mod&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=911&tbm=isch&imgil=EXSAWc6Urs_wdM%253A%253BE6_PEHnbCDKsVM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fsuperuser.com%25252Fquestions%25252F605972%25252Fhdmi-audio-drops-out-when-display-enters-powersave&source=iu&pf=m&fir=EXSAWc6Urs_wdM%253A%252CE6_PEHnbCDKsVM%252C_&usg=__LmfABycfgQ_MW21g7kkUun4fU54%3D&ved=0ahUKEwjMo9-3ypbRAhXII8AKHX0fDocQyjcIJQ&ei=wYZjWIy_JcjHgAb9vri4CA#imgrc=EXSAWc6Urs_wdM%3A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert 49 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 I believe after my extensive trial and error that the device sees the AVR as a repeater and my Xbox One actually reports it as such. So, again after trial and error, I believe the key is to have the power on order correct so the "repeater" can report what it's repeating to. So try TV on first and then AVR and see if you can get it to make the error. Also make sure that you are using consistent resolution, my WMC somehow was at a different resolution (maybe refresh rate) and would cause this same issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 37230 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 @@Bert, good info, thanks ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc_G 92 Posted December 29, 2016 Author Share Posted December 29, 2016 +1 for the HDMI Detective. Yes it's pricey, but it just works. HDMI is a pain for stuff like this because of the EDID/HDCP junk . It's possible to spoof the EDID on Linux, and I've not tried it w/ Windows, but if you google "windows edid override" you will probably find some useful information. I haven't used mine in a year or 2, so I'd be willing to part with it if you're interested. Thanks for all the responses on this, and @@mastrmind11, I may take you up on this if I don't sort it out. I've been too busy with other stuff this week (a few work things, a few family things, a new Emby server build ... ) but tomorrow I plan to try to sort out what conditions actually trigger which odd events. The events include any or all of the following (note, the computer stays on at all times, no sleep or anything): -I turn on the AVR/TV and see I've been signed out of my account -I turn them on and get a full 1080p screen but see whatever app I was using such as ET or Kodi was shrunken while I was away, when it was full screen before. -I turn them on and my resolution is 1024x768 -I turn them on and my sound is no longer HDMI, but speakers instead (only happened once so far, but it was when the wife was watching...). I'm guessing the pin 19 tape trick would work, otherwise it's HDMI Detective for me. Hopefully HDMI Detective doesn't interfere with ARC... that's how I currently get sound from the TV streaming apps back to the AVR. Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellomade 140 Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Just a few notes: note, the computer stays on at all times, no sleep or anything This is the problem - you can't leave your PC on and power everything else off otherwise you will loose EDID info as this is only negotiated at boot. No point in troubleshooting further. Hopefully HDMI Detective doesn't interfere with ARC... that's how I currently get sound from the TV streaming apps back to the AVR. AFAIK - ARC is not supported by this device. Better to run everything through your AVR and use your TV as a monitor - which you should be doing anyway. TV should be attached to your AVR via the Monitor out and your PC via some HDMI in. The HDMI Detective would sit between the PC and AVR - so it should not interfere with ARC directly from the TV to AVR. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastrmind11 717 Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Completely agree w/ what @@mellomade said regarding leaving the PC on full time... that's most certainly the issue. I also agree w/ his assessment about how you've got everything connected. The reason HDMI Detective works is because it saves the EDID info in non volatile memory, which obviously will survive a power cycle and the original handshake info is available once the other components come back online. Again, I don't think you'll even need it if you take mellomade's advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc_G 92 Posted December 31, 2016 Author Share Posted December 31, 2016 Right, I see where this issue is going. I'm going to try the Pin 19 fix (tape) first, see if that works, then if not it's HDMI detective. The reason it surprised me that it hasn't been fixed is that my prior HTPC was directly connected via HDMI to my TV for more than seven and a half years and I never once had these problems with it. The old HTPC evolved over time (onboard graphics... then AMD 4550 card... then AMD 5670 card, Vista... then Win 7), and the TV changed out (and older Panny plasma, then eventually in 2013 a newer 1080p Panny plasma). The HTPC was direct-connected to the TV, and the audio was always SPDIF optical to the AVR (which did not support HDMI). In all those years, since the HTPC was also the Emby server, it was never off, just "screen turned off after X minutes" and I never once had this problem of resolutions. Now, with new equipment, it's happening. Sigh. But there are solutions so I won't agonize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc_G 92 Posted December 31, 2016 Author Share Posted December 31, 2016 Today I tried three times to implement the "pin 19 tape trick" and each time, despite careful positioning of a slice of tape over pin 19, I got no video signal at all. I'm quite certain I wasn't actually blocking any of the other pins, having checked before and after plugging this in. On some other web forums it looks like the robust way of doing this involves putting a resistor in there to keep a certain voltage on that pin. Not worth me fussing over. I'll look into HDMI Detective, MonitorDetectKiller, and Dr. HDMI. Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc_G 92 Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 To close out this thread, I'm reporting the HDMI Detective Plus did the trick. I bought one from one of our forum members who had one not in use, spent 2 minutes setting it up (recording the EDID from my AVR/TV), and since then have had no problems as originally reported. All my windows are arranged exactly as I left them, no matter how much I power cycle the TV or AVR. Yea. Marc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 37230 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Thanks for the info ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyFr79 228 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I was running into a similar issue to this last night at a friends house only to realize that disabling HDMI CEC (Viera LINK since it was a Panny Plasma) on the TV resolved the issue, so for others who are running into this you may want to try disabling HDMI CEC/ARC on the TV if it's enabled and you don't need it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc_G 92 Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 This Vieralink switch worked for my prior HTPC (old AMD 5670 graphics) but my new i5-6600 based unit doesn't seem to be able to ignore it. The presence of an AVR in the HDMI chain now (not present before I switched htpcs) may also be a big part of it for me. No changes in the AVR settings I tried fixed it. But the HDMI detective plus cured what ailled me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest asrequested Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Yup, I have no cec enabled on any device. I never had the issue my old gen 2 i7, but with gen 6 I needed to fix the 19th pin issue. Which I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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