Tizen Experiences; Problems; Feature Request That Everyone Will Love!

[mmmann 8]

Hi Mr. Developer(s) and everyone,

 

I just bought a 85JU645D (CostCo special model #) and am finally getting to play with the Tizen app. The TV is good; it seems more like a JU7100 series. Anyway, I'd like to submit my initial experiences, report a few possible bugs, and finish with a feature request that I'm sure everyone would get behind.

 

INITIAL EXPERIENCES

 

The Tizen app is different; there was a learning curve. I was using it without reading any documentation -- good U/I's should need none, right? I couldn't find the settings. It turns out to be a little picture of a person. Huh? Shouldn't it be a little sprog or something?

 

And now for a couple bugs. If you really need them in the official format, let me know.

 

BUG: Pausing for a few minutes causes the app to exit.

 

If I pause the current video to make popcorn or answer the door, and come back in a few minutes, the app crashes (or perhaps Tizen kills it). To replicate: play video, pause, wait a bit, un-pause. The video will restart and play the remainder of the data in the buffer, perhaps 10-15 second's worth. Then the spinning I'm-Thinking circle will appear and, after 10 seconds, the app exits. Result: you cannot pause a video unless it's just to go pee...really quickly.

 

BUG(?): Not enough on-screen description / explanation of options.

 

There should always be a separate on-screen frame that discusses what each and every option does. What does "Auto" mean in the connection speed selection? Not knowing, I overrode the default and selected 60Mbs. I have 1000Gb networking throughout; the fastest should be the closest match to my network...I hope.

 

BUG(?): Not detecting 4K?

 

Under connection speed, the topmost speed is "1080p (60MBs)." Why is there no 2160p listed? Is the app detecting the TV as non-4K? Is the CostCo model # confusing it? Things like that make me nervous. (Most probably it's just a bunch of hard-coded text strings in the application; tsk, tsk!)

 

BUG(?): Transcoding due to Forced Subtitles?

 

I read in another thread that subtitles cause transcoding since Emby must burn them onto the video. That's disappointing. In "The Martian" there are 5 minutes of the Chinese space agency talking about how and if to help save Mark Watney. If I want to understand what they're saying, do I have to transcode the entire 2.5hrs? Is this a bug? The capabilities matrix of the TV clearly states that it supports all manner of subtitles in a *.mkv, so why can it not play it directly? Theory: perhaps because the movie is streamed over TCP/IP rather than sitting out on a USB stick, the TV cannot jump forward in the *.mkv a few gigs and read the subtitles section?

 

Would it be possible to Direct-Play the movie and just ffmpeg the portions that contain subtitles, slipstreaming them into the TCP/IP stream? In the case of "The Martian," it would Direct-Play almost everything and have the burned-in subtitles section waiting to be substituted at the correct time. Perhaps there could be a cut-off: if subtitles are all over the place, it would just transcode everything.

 

Note: I changed subtitles to "None" on my Samsung and my test 4K movie was still transcoding. Perhaps there was something else about the movie that was causing it. The problem is, we're all in the dark as to when and why transcoding occurs, and thus my last bug and request.

 

BUG: Constant transcoding! Where's my Direct-Play, 4K content?

 

When I look at the Manage Server web page, it indicates that it's transcoding. What a bummer! Transcoding is a common concern based on the forum threads I read, and for good reason: transcoding is Bad. It seems that this television can handle anything thrown at it: it's a 2015 unit and knows h265, 8- and 10-bit color, High 5.1 & Main10, etc. The matrix is large and very complete, so what could Emby be worried about? I really don't know -- there's no information easily accessible, to my knowledge. The bug is that on-screen, there should be information that says, "Transcoding: Burning in Subtitles" or "Transcoding: Cannot Handle Main10@6.1." Or (and far more likely to be implemented), the SERVER should provide that information.

 

FEATURE REQUEST: Transcoding information popup (or frame) in web application.

 

When you go to "Server Management," there's a postage-stamp video picture showing what each device is playing. This is how I've determined that everything going to my lovely 2015 JU is being transcoded. But why? God only knows, or if you're a developer and can understand the "ffmpeg-transcode*.txt" log file, then I suppose you'd know. The average user needs a method to figure out WHY things are transcoding and HOW TO STOP IT. The "Transcoding" message in Server Management should be a link leading to a popup or a separate frame that gives the EXACT reason that things are being transcoded. It should say, for instance, "Transcoding 'Motion Picture.mkv' because it contains forced subtitles and they must be 'burned' onto the video. To enable Direct-Play, turn off subtitles in the client." Or, "Transcoding 'Motion Picture.mp4' because it is encoded in Main @ 5.1 and <TV-name> only supports up to Main @ 4.1. To fix this, reencode the video; see <webpage> for more information on using Handbrake to reencode a movie."

 

We need good, click-and-read information on why things are transcoding. It's not OK to be doing it automatically, in a set-and-forget fashion. Users KNOW when their CPU spikes to 80% or when the video stutters on the TV. Most Emby users are probably fairly tech-savvy and they want to know exactly why transcoding is occuring and how to make it stop.

 

Thanks for listening. Always an Emby fan and looking forward to its continued success.

 

Mike

 

p.s. I'm sticking my head out posting feedback. Please limit yourself to thoughtful replies. And if anyone says, "just copy-and-paste the log file into a forum post to figure out why your movie is transcoding, I may have to find you and beat you over the head with my new Smart Remote... :-))

[Luke 37065]

Hi, thanks for the feedback, we'll take a look !

[FrostByte 5049]

 

 

FEATURE REQUEST: Transcoding information popup (or frame) in web application.

 

When you go to "Server Management," there's a postage-stamp video picture showing what each device is playing. This is how I've determined that everything going to my lovely 2015 JU is being transcoded. But why? God only knows, or if you're a developer and can understand the "ffmpeg-transcode*.txt" log file, then I suppose you'd know. The average user needs a method to figure out WHY things are transcoding and HOW TO STOP IT. The "Transcoding" message in Server Management should be a link leading to a popup or a separate frame that gives the EXACT reason that things are being transcoded. It should say, for instance, "Transcoding 'Motion Picture.mkv' because it contains forced subtitles and they must be 'burned' onto the video. To enable Direct-Play, turn off subtitles in the client." Or, "Transcoding 'Motion Picture.mp4' because it is encoded in Main @ 5.1 and <TV-name> only supports up to Main @ 4.1. To fix this, reencode the video; see <webpage> for more information on using Handbrake to reencode a movie."

 

We need good, click-and-read information on why things are transcoding. It's not OK to be doing it automatically, in a set-and-forget fashion. Users KNOW when their CPU spikes to 80% or when the video stutters on the TV. Most Emby users are probably fairly tech-savvy and they want to know exactly why transcoding is occuring and how to make it stop.

 

Thanks for listening. Always an Emby fan and looking forward to its continued success.

 

 

One of the nice things about the old Orsay app is that it had an internal log you could view on the TV itself and it would tell you things like why it was transcoding (unsupported codec, subtitles, resolution, etc)  Probably not as detailed as you describe, but it would point you in the right direction if you were knowledgeable of the table in your users manual which lists what is supported.  Something like that in the Tizen app would be nice.

[mmmann 8]

Note to all: I've created a thread in AVSForum to describe the UN85JU645D television I purchased. It's not on Samsung's website nor is there any information to be found on this unit. Links are not against forum rules, I hope? The link to the AVSForum thread is:

 

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lcd-flat-panel-displays/2679793-costco-samsung-un85ju645d-fxza.html

 

Further note: Every 4K source I've played is transcoding. Hopefully someone will discover the cause at some point, or a web server developer (or Samsung developer?) will implement code sufficient to help users figure out the reason for transcoding and perhaps an explanation / solution for each instance.

[SamES 890]

Thanks for the feedback.  Features are still being improved so this is useful information

 

I presume the TV is updated to the latest firmware.

 

What server version are you running?

 

Here are my experiences (75KS9005).  Your experience may of course be different on J-series in general, or specifically your particular model

 

BUG: Pausing for a few minutes causes the app to exit.

• I've tried pausing for at least 10 minutes,then unpaused and was able to continue playback (tested for at least 5 minutes of playback) without disruption or buffering
• I can't replicate this issue on K-Series

 

BUG(?): Not enough on-screen description / explanation of options.

• Yes, some additional OSD to show DirectPlay/Transcoding state, app version etc would be useful.  This may (or may not) come in the future.
• Auto attempts to determine the maximum rate via a bitrate test, then I believe sets the maximum to about 80% of this.  Setting a manual Maximum in the settings overrides this.  Yes the maximum 'manual' setting is 60 Mb/s.  As this setting makes most sense for restricting bandwidth this is mostly adequate.  Higher values (ie: 80 Mb/s) would be useful for overriding the auto-detected rate but this of course may introduce playback issues.   I think Auto should always give you the best option unless you want to force the rate to be lower.
• You mention GB network.  I presume you TV is connected via cable and not wireless.

 

BUG(?): Not detecting 4K?

• The Max Streaming Bitrate settings are just a preset list, 2160p has not been added.  That said, I've played 4K content without Transcoding. If you are transcoding then most likely you are hitting some bitrate limits which currently exist in the app and may need to be increased (based on model capabilities) to support 4K playback correctly. 
• This is a 51 Mb/s bitrate demo over wireless (played without any buffering).  I've actually set 1080p - 60Mbps as the Max streaming rate just to confirm it will still DirectPlay despite being set to 1080p.

   

 

BUG(?): Transcoding due to Forced Subtitles?

• There is progress ongoing to make subtitles work better

 

BUG: Constant transcoding! Where's my Direct-Play, 4K content?

• I rarely have anything that transcodes now (ATMOS is one of the exceptions and it transcodes audio only).  That said, it's only because we've tackled each transcoding issue to update the supported matrix to make sure everything we've tested DirectPlays.  Specific examples (media info plus transcoding logs) are useful here if you have issues.
• See my 4K comments above.

 

I don't know the supported rates and resolutions for you model.  Do you have the e-manual for it? There should be a table towards the back with the supported formats. This may be useful

Edited December 17, 2016 by SamES

[Luke 37065]

Thanks for the info @@SamES!

[mmmann 8]

SamES et al.,

 

Thank you for your reply! Please forgive the lapse in time.

 

> I presume the TV is updated to the latest firmware. What server version are you running?

Yes, I ran an update on the firmware. The server is the latest as of 12/20/2016: Version 3.1.0.0.

 

> I presume your TV is connected via cable and not wireless.

True. Everything I run is wired. 1000Base-T (Gigabit) from the server to a Cisco series 200 and then to the TV.

 

> I don't know the supported rates and resolutions for you model. Do you have the e-manual for it?

Yes, although I'm doubtful of its accuracy as far as the features of this TV. See my AVSForum post. The relevant specifications pages are attached as a PDF.

 

Attachment: The specs sheet PDF, pages 151 to 160.

 

I'm going to post more information on the transcoding in the other thread I created, entitled "Transcoding Superbug?" I meant for this thread to discuss my general impressions of the new Tizen application; I'm pretty sure readers find it frustrating when threads deviate from their title.

ENG_US-HMUATSCJ-1.318-1203.151-160.pdf

[njf 4]

I am having a problem with the settings. I have just installed Emby on my Tizen TV, having changed the Smart Hub region to US. I started playing a TV episode and it immediately played the next episode after the first was finished. I managed to find the settings were hidden behind my avatar and found there was a setting for continuous play, but this was already unchecked. I am also finding it impossible to select or deselect that option using my TV remote. I assume I am supposed to use the OK button on the remote but it does nothing on that option. I am also unable to check or uncheck other options, including, for example, the two options under Default Skin.

 

Also, the wrong time is displayed. I am on GMT-5 but the time shown is 5 hours ahead. The time is correct in my NAS (and Emby on my PC connected to the NAS). This was a problem with the TV settings.

 

My TV is a UN40JU6100 and my server is a QNAP TS-453A NAS with Emby 3.1.2.0.

 

UPDATE: It is now not doing continuous play. It may be that I did something wrong the last time. However, I am still unable to select the check boxes. I have noticed that when I try to select one of the check boxes in the Playback Settings page, the top line saying Playback Settings and with the avatar and time pop up for a few seconds.

Edited December 31, 2016 by njf

[njf 4]

I am also now finding that there is a delay of a few seconds between any key press and a reaction from Emby on the TV. It is not the batteries. Other apps respond immediately, as they should. I have rebooted the NAS to no improvement.

 

UPDATE: This problem seems strangely just to have gone away on its own.

Edited December 31, 2016 by njf

[njf 4]

One more thing. When I am in Default Skin, I would have thought that the way to exit it is to press Return on the remote but that does nothing. It seems I have to go back up to and select the avatar and then select Home. Is that correct?

[Luke 37065]

Thanks for the report.

[SamES 890]

There's currently a known problem with checkbox rendering in settings and the default skin which is still being worked on. Checkboxes appear unticked and don't show their focus.  If you are on a checkbox, return doesn't work.   This explains your issues.  It will be fixed soon.

[njf 4]

Thanks for the clarification. Will there be some sort of notification when it is fixed so we don't need to keep checking?

[SamES 890]

I hope the app will auto update from the store when its available

[FrostByte 5049]

They are taking their time as usual I see   Samsung must think it's a holiday, or something.  Still only seeing .16 here with the checkbox problems

[Luke 37065]

We've submitted the update to improve direct play of high bitrate and 4K content. Stay tuned to our announcements for status updates. Thanks.

[Luke 37065]

1.0.20 has launched. Enjoy