Media Browser vs Plex

[CT-Scott 0]

I just posted this over in a thread in the AVS Forums, but then I found your forums here, so I figured I'd repost it here.  I'm a bit confused as to the distinction between the two "General discussion" forums here, so hopefully I'm posting this in the right place.

 

I have several questions, but first some background info: My main server is a Windows 7 desktop running WMC.  I have an HDHomeRun PRIME and Comcast cable (all channels I watch marked copy-freely).  I also have Plex Media Server installed which manages my movie collection.  I use WTV-MetaRenamer to rename my WTV files so that Plex Media Server can digest them.  I use XBMC w/PleXBMC on the main server (but occasionally fire up the latest Plex Home Theater client to see how that's coming along).

 

In another room, I have an XBox 360 Slim which I use primarily as a WMC extender for live/recorded TV, as well as an Acer Revo ATOM/ION nettop which has Windows 7, but lately I've been running OpenElec (on an SD card) XBMC w/PleXBMC.  And I also have some iPhones and iPads, but am considering switching to an Android phone for myself.  I also have a few Apple TVs, which I primarily use for AirPlaying Pandora, Netflix watching, and occasional iTunes movie rentals.

 

In my dream world, I would have a single box with a common UI on every TV, and I'd be able to stream transcoded movies and TV shows, including live TV, to my iOS devices.  Right now, the main thing lacking is the inability for the mobile devices to deal with live TV (or TV shows where the recording is still in progress).

 

A couple of questions:

 

1) It sounds like Media Browser is going to have the same limitations as Plex (right now) as far as live TV is concerned.  However, given MB's long history as a WMC add-in, I'm hopeful that I could at least eliminate the need for WTV-MetaRenamer and would be able to at least begin playback of a TV show the moment it completes recording.  Is that accurate?  What about in-progress recordings?  Will they show up the moment the recording starts, and can I play them?

 

2) Is it safe to install Media Browser alongside Plex?  Will Media Browser attempt to move any of my movies or files around, or install metadata files in the same directories as the movie and TV show files are located, or will it work similar to Plex where it maintains its own database separate from all of that?  I'd like to install Media Browser and test it out, but I don't want to do anything that could interfere with my current working setup.

 

I think those two questions will be a good start.  If anyone has any other Plex vs Media Browser info (pros/cons), that would be great, too.

[Luke 37090]

For #1 - our live tv solution is still in development and we're not yet ready to answer those questions. we'll have more information soon.

 

For #2 - yes, the startup wizard will allow you to configure MBS so that it only has a read-only view of your media folders.

[Deihmos 147]

I was using Plex with Mediabrowser and didn't have any issues. I have since uninstalled Plex as I think MB3 is better for my use. Have you tried Media Browser Classic? I was using XBMC and WMC for Live Tv but I now find it much easier to use one software for everything. No need for me to close one app to view another. 

[CT-Scott 0]

For #1 - our live tv solution is still in development and we're not yet ready to answer those questions. we'll have more information soon.

But what about recorded TV?  If I start recording a show now, how quickly does it show up on a client as being available to play?

 

For #2 - yes, the startup wizard will allow you to configure MBS so that it only has a read-only view of your media folders.

What are the pros/cons to each option, and can it be easily changed later?

[Luke 37090]

For #1, we're not really answering questions on live tv right now, we've only dropped the hint that it's coming. We're working hard to build it as best we can.

 

For #2 - the advantage of saving metadata to your local folders is that puts it in a place you can more easily control. If you re-organize your file structure, the metadata stays intact so that we don't have to re-download it.

 

Fyi for Plex - we recognize all Plex/Xbmc image file names so we won't have to go and re-download ones that you already have. Also, have an NFO output plugin that will allow our metadata management interface to also save information to nfo's.

[CT-Scott 0]

I was using Plex with Mediabrowser and didn't have any issues. I have since uninstalled Plex as I think MB3 is better for my use. Have you tried Media Browser Classic? I was using XBMC and WMC for Live Tv but I now find it much easier to use one software for everything. No need for me to close one app to view another. 

At this point in time, would you recommend MB Classic over MB Theater?  Does the former still tie into the MB Server back-end?

 

Also, another question: Will I be able to make use of my XBox 360 Slim as a client?

[CT-Scott 0]

For #1, we're not really answering questions on live tv right now, we've only dropped the hint that it's coming. We're working hard to build it as best we can.

It seems like we're misunderstanding eachother.  Forget about live TV and just focus on pre-recorded TV.  If I use WMC to record a TV show, at what point will MB see/expose that .wtv file?  Or are you saying that the current version of MB doesn't support playback of WTV files at all?

[Luke 37090]

we support wtv. it can be utilized as soon as it exists in a folder that is exposed to our server. 

[Deihmos 147]

At this point in time, would you recommend MB Classic over MB Theater?  Does the former still tie into the MB Server back-end?

 

Also, another question: Will I be able to make use of my XBox 360 Slim as a client?

 

The xbox 360 can be used as an extender and will be able to use MBC. There are some people that do use it but I have no experience with it. For my use I would use MBC over MBT because I also have an HDhomerun Prime and many of my channels are copy once plus I like the way WMC works with TV. MBC also looks really nice with some of the latest themes. If I move to MBT I will then have to jump back and forth between apps. I like being able to look at a movie then jump to the guide to see what's on tv.

 

My recorded tv folder isn't monitored by the server but once a recording begins I can play it on any device with WMC.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Deihmos

[CT-Scott 0]

Thanks for the quick replies.  I decided to go ahead and install the server component as well as the iOS app (on my iPhone 5) to take it for a quick test drive.  So as to expedite the metadata-scraping step, I only pointed it at my "Recorded TV" folder (for WMC television content) and one of my external drives (for movie content).  If I decide it's a keeper, I'll point it at my other external drives/movies.  Some initial observations:

 

- Streaming quality to my iPhone was blocky, but then I found the setting screen for upping the bitrate.  I first tried 3mbps and that looked nice and sharp on my iPhone.  I then tried AirPlay and it worked fine, but PQ looked soft.  So then I upped it to 6mbps, but it didn't really look noticeably better.  This ATV is an ATV2, so it's limited to 720p, but it still seemed lower-res/softer than 720p.  I will say that even at 6mbps it played very smoothly.  I'll try it with my 1080p ATV3 later to see if there's a noticeable improvement there.  Worst case, it's not a huge deal, as I don't really anticipate using streaming movies/TV to my iPhone and then to the ATV.  For my 2nd room, I'd likely be streaming directly to a MB client on my Acer Revo nettop, where transcoding would not be needed.  Still, one last note...the bitrate settings are similar to what Plex offers, but I believe that Plex lets you set the desired resolution as well.  Can you tell me if your transcoding currently supports transcoding up to 1080p resolution, or are you lowering the resolution and, if so, to what?

 

- I tried turning off my WiFi to see if I could simulate streaming over cellular, but it didn't find my MB Server.  I looked at the MB Server web-based configuration but didn't see anything obvious there for how to get that to work.  Plex automates/simplifies this nicely.  I don't mind having to delve deeper into IP settings and such, but I'm not sure where to start.

[Luke 37090]

you have to configure the ios client for remote access.

 

as far as resolution, i think the client is limiting resolution to the lower of the device and content resolutions.

[CT-Scott 0]

A couple more observations:

 

- On the iOS app, the timebar doesn't seem to provide accurate information, and the skip forward button don't seem to work reliably, if at all.  I'd definitely like to see a 30-sec skip to get through commercials (but maybe that's what the skip forward is going to do once bugs have been worked out).

 

- After playing content on my iPhone for a couple of minutes, I'm seeing some pauses and such.  I'll experiment more later.  Could be due to MB Server still being busy on the back-end grabbing lots of metadata or something.

 

Question regarding the XBox 360: How do I get it working on there?  Do I just install MB Classic on my WMC Server and it will automagically show up in the WMC menu on my XBox?  I'll try installing MB Classic shortly.

[Deihmos 147]

The server could be downloading metadata. For the client to work on cellular you will need to add the external IP. Plex does it automatically because of the sign-in that they use. The Xbox 360 is a WMC extender. You can follow these instructions. MBC should be installed on the device you will be adding the Xbox as an extender. 

 

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-vista/set-up-a-windows-media-center-extender-device

Edited December 1, 2013 by Deihmos

[Luke 37090]

The next iOS update will improve the video player.

 

MB Classic is a client app and should be installed on the system the extender will connect to.

[CT-Scott 0]

Just to clarify...I already have my XBox 360 set up as an extender, so my question was how would MB appear in my XBox 360 extender.  If I'm reading Luke's reply correctly, it sounds like it should show up automatically.  I believe that I have a Plex menu option that shows up on my XBox 360 but it doesn't actually work on the 360, whereas I'm guessing that MB will show up similarly but will actually work.

 

BTW, just so I don't come across sounding too negative/critical...I appreciate the fact that the iOS app hasn't been out as long as the Plex iOS app, and everything looks quite promising.  It's probably not mature enough to replace Plex for me yet, but it's great to see some real competition out there.

[Deihmos 147]

It is automatic. Once you install it on the WMC client it will show up on the extender.

[CT-Scott 0]

I'm about to watch the KC Chiefs play, so I can't mess around with anything else today.  Just a couple quick updates:

 

- The XBox did, indeed, show MB in the menu.  Unfortunately, when I went to play a movie (full-bitrate Blu-ray MKV rip) it gave me an error about missing codecs and everything locked up.  I had to manually turn off/on the XBox to get it going again.  I'm a bit hesitant to install codec packs on my WMC 7 server as the last time I did that it broke my ability to play TV recordings on my server.  But I guess I'll have to do a bit more research on all of that.

 

- I tested out recording a TV show and looking to see if it would show up as being available to play in the MB client apps on my iPhone and within MB Classic within WMC.  Unfortunately, it did not.  Disappointing, but not surprising.  What did surprise me, though, was that even once the show had finished recording, it wasn't showing up in MB.  I was hoping that it would show up in the list immediately (or nearly immediately), but it did not.  In fact, it's now been 10 minutes since the show completed recording and it's still not showing up in MB.

[steve1977 67]

Let me also throw in some thoughts. Why would you want to keep Plex/Plexserver at all? My suggestion would be to go with one server, which is MBS and also use the MB clients on your mobile devices. Go with XBMC clients on your other devices to keep live-TV functionality. With the MBS-addon, XBMC will act as a perfect client. For me, this is the best of all worlds and also dead-simple given you have only one server and a bunch of seamlessly operating clients.

[Deihmos 147]

There is no need to install a codec pack to enable mkv playback. You can simply install a filter like the lav filter and mkv will play using the Microsoft built in codecs. For my use I installed the lav x64 filter and ffdshow only. I use ffdshow to enable subtitle support and ff and rewind with mkv files. Live TV is unaffected. I don't use codec packs. 

 

I was once using the Xbox for media playback but that was a long time ago. It was able to play mkv through WMC but it wasn't that good. A cheap bookshelf PC is much better than using the Xbox.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Deihmos

[sfnetwork 514]

Let me also throw in some thoughts. Why would you want to keep Plex/Plexserver at all? My suggestion would be to go with one server, which is MBS and also use the MB clients on your mobile devices. Go with XBMC clients on your other devices to keep live-TV functionality. With the MBS-addon, XBMC will act as a perfect client. For me, this is the best of all worlds and also dead-simple given you have only one server and a bunch of seamlessly operating clients.

I keep Plex PMS, MB server and XBMC (centralized SQL) in my environment still. (and rely on Trakt to keep my watched states synced)

To stay objective, the fact is that at this moment, Plex and XBMC still offers options for the users that MB3 doesn't (for now at least)

-Openelec style solution (XBMC)

-iPad client (in dev right now) and iPhone client (still in too early stage and missing basic bug fixes and features) (Plex)

-Some other personal preferences... (MyPlex, remote functions across all clients, etc...)

 

I still think MB3 will dominate but it's not quite there yet depending on the needs.

Where MB3 is IMO the best of all already:

-MB server library management and server options layouts

-MB web client interface, layouts and HTML 5 support

-MB server plugin and how they work so well on the server (not like those Plex "channels" that sometimes look more like Plex denied them to be part of the server so they "worked around" and made them channels (Trakt))

-MB Android client (Red is just awesome and made an excellent job)

 

But the fact is that all three solutions can work side by side without any issue so it lets you take the best of everything. But at the end, I "wish" I could get rid of Plex and I just hate its library management (but can't ignore the rest of the good stuff it has).

 

One other important thing I observed is that MB dev listen to the community ideas and suggestions MUCH more seriously than Plex. MB is made for the users and it shows. If a request or suggestion is "doable" and makes sense (and popular enough) it will be done. 

Examples: XBMC saver, "compatible" naming convention, etc...

In Plex, the "nfo importer agent" is not an official agent (not supported officially by Plex team)

[Luke 37090]

I keep Plex PMS, MB server and XBMC (centralized SQL) in my environment still. (and rely on Trakt to keep my watched states synced)

To stay objective, the fact is that at this moment, Plex and XBMC still offers options for the users that MB3 doesn't (for now at least)

-Openelec style solution (XBMC)

-iPad client (in dev right now) and iPhone client (still in too early stage and missing basic bug fixes and features) (Plex)

-Some other personal preferences... (MyPlex, remote functions across all clients, etc...)

 

I still think MB3 will dominate but it's not quite there yet depending on the needs.

Where MB3 is IMO the best of all already:

-MB server library management and server options layouts

-MB web client interface, layouts and HTML 5 support

-MB server plugin and how they work so well on the server (not like those Plex "channels" that sometimes look more like Plex denied them to be part of the server so they "worked around" and made them channels (Trakt))

-MB Android client (Red is just awesome and made an excellent job)

 

But the fact is that all three solutions can work side by side without any issue so it lets you take the best of everything. But at the end, I "wish" I could get rid of Plex and I just hate its library management (but can't ignore the rest of the good stuff it has).

 

One other important thing I observed is that MB dev listen to the community ideas and suggestions MUCH more seriously than Plex. MB is made for the users and it shows. If a request or suggestion is "doable" and makes sense (and popular enough) it will be done. 

Examples: XBMC saver, "compatible" naming convention, etc...

In Plex, the "nfo importer agent" is not an official agent (not supported officially by Plex team)

 

can you elaborate more on remote functions across all clients?

[sfnetwork 514]

can you elaborate more on remote functions across all clients?

Ex:

-Web client navigation and  "play to" roku client (or any other client like Android, etc...)

-iPhone client "play to" android client.

-etc...

Right now, only clients able to "receive" playback remote instructions are web, MBT, (and MBC I think).

 

Only from observations (might be completely wrong too), Plex seems to store the device profiles on the server instead of leaving most of the "responsibilities" to the client.

Example, there was an issue with direct play on new iPad Air and they "added a device profile" for it on the PMS to resolve it (client stayed the same) which gave me the hint that maybe the remote functions may also be more managed from the PMS server using those profiles to push playback to the clients...

I also think it's the same concept with direct/copy stream/transcode algorithms.

 

lol, but I "assume" way too much based on my knowledge and could be completely off track... (probably am)

***Sorry, didn't want to go off topic on this tread (too late I guess  )

[Redshirt 1487]

Right now, only clients able to "receive" playback remote instructions are web, MBT, (and MBC I think).

 

and Android

[sfnetwork 514]

and Android

seriously? Nice... damn, never tried it. (I just assumed...lol)

 

Just tried it now; works.

Good job!

 

***Some small issues but I'll post in Android treads...

Edited December 2, 2013 by sfnetwork

[Deihmos 147]

I honestly can't figure what is so special about remote instructions. I have yet to use it and can't think of a reason why I would need to.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Deihmos