Fire TV Stick 4K Max - issues with playback of DV video and DTS

[kaledi 32]

So I've just obtained one of the new Fire TV Stick 4K Max.  I have a Shield TV Pro as reference connected to a Marantz AVR and Panasonic OLED, and this combination plays back all combinations of video and audio that I have, so I know my downstream devices are all fine.

These are the observations / issues I've found so far with FTV.

1. As reported elsewhere, DTS-HD audio does not appear to pass through correctly (to the Marantz AVR), I just get silence, i.e. the DTS core, isn't even extracted.  Files with a audio track that is core DTS does pass through and play fine.  I've checked with my plex installation the DTS-HD also will not pass through, but the core DTS does appear to be extracted.  If I set Emby client not to pass through DTS-HD, then the server transcodes the audio just fine.

2. BR rips with Dolby Vision HDR present a black screen (audio is playing and the file is playing).  I have a HDRfury device, so I know the AVR and TV is being presented with the correct signal, it just doesn't show anything.  If I connect directly to the TV then I get a pink screen, but otherwise same behaviour.  This is very strange.  Interestingly, with PLEX, the DV files don't play as DV, but as HDR10 instead.  DV from streamed files play fine.  Also I can confirm files with HDR10, or HDR10+ play fine in Emby.

3.  Some 4K HDR rips are playing but being transcoded by the server, as it is saying that the file exceeds the set maximum bit rate.  Looking at the transcoded file bit rate, this appears to be around 80mbps.  This is not an issue on the shield TV.  The files in question appear to be some files that have both DV and HDR10+ embedded into them.  I will see if I can replicate this behaviour with any other files.

As suggested in the other thread, I shall try the sideloaded standard app later, but given the behaviour with Plex, I'm not convinced it will be different.

 

[Luke 37090]

 

Hi there, let's look at an example. Please attach the information requested in how to report a media playback issue. Thanks!

 

[ebr 14918]

2 hours ago, kaledi said:

BR rips with Dolby Vision HDR present a black screen (audio is playing and the file is playing).  I have a HDRfury device, so I know the AVR and TV is being presented with the correct signal, it just doesn't show anything.  If I connect directly to the TV then I get a pink screen, but otherwise same behaviour.  This is very strange.  Interestingly, with PLEX, the DV files don't play as DV, but as HDR10 instead.  DV from streamed files play fine.  Also I can confirm files with HDR10, or HDR10+ play fine in Emby.

Hi.  See the other discussion on DV+HDER+ on that particular device. 

 

[kaledi 32]

So it seems that the DV issue is already known and down to the DV profile and a bug, or some other issue with the Fire TV Stick.  If I've understood correctly, this is something google / amazon need to resolve?  Would you like me to post logs for this?

Same for DTS-HD files - do you have examples from the other post, or do you want me to post some examples?

One update - I sideloaded the android app.  The file that transcoded because of 'too high a bit rate' 'played' without transcoding, albeit it exhibited the black screen issue.  I went back to the FTV emby app and now set the maximum bit rate to 160 mbps (changed from auto) and now that 'played'.

[rbjtech 4276]

9 hours ago, kaledi said:

So it seems that the DV issue is already known and down to the DV profile and a bug, or some other issue with the Fire TV Stick.  If I've understood correctly, this is something google / amazon need to resolve?  Would you like me to post logs for this?

Same for DTS-HD files - do you have examples from the other post, or do you want me to post some examples?

One update - I sideloaded the android app.  The file that transcoded because of 'too high a bit rate' 'played' without transcoding, albeit it exhibited the black screen issue.  I went back to the FTV emby app and now set the maximum bit rate to 160 mbps (changed from auto) and now that 'played'.

Lots of factors here.

An original BR Rip is DV profile 7 with HDR10 - there is no such thing as a BR Rip with HDR10+ ..   To note, the FireTV 4K+ does not play DV7 Profiles .. 

A modified BR Rip to DV profile 8, with either a DV to HDR10+ metadata added, or added from a streamed HDR10+  THESE are the problem files for the FireTV 4K+.

So it has nothing to do with DV per-say - it's a combo of DV and HDR10+ (HDR10 works fine) as a fallback compatibility codec that the Fire TV Stick does not appear to like.    Yes it's ideally for Amazon to resolve,  Google (the creators of Exoplayer) are reluctant to do a workaround for what is a device specific firmware issue and ultimately a 'scene or homebrew' release.  (ie not a legit format available via disk or stream).. 

On the DTS-HD - I don't have an issue passing through DTS via a Fire-TV 4K max to my sons Panasonic TV.   The Fire-TV stick does not support DTS-HD.

On a proper passthrough to an AVR, I've only tested with a Shield Pro to Denon AVR - that supports DTS-HD passthrough just fine.  Shield also plays DV7 Profiles..

Yes the FTV App allows you to force the maximum bitrate to up to 1000 Mbps (on the Shield anyway).

Bottom line - if you want to play all DV profiles and passthrough all HD Audio profiles to an AVR - the Shield Pro is still the only device that does this - BUT does not work with HDR10+ (it ignores it and just plays HDR10), nor does it do AV1 h/w decoding .. 

Edited January 26 by rbjtech

[signde 25]

15 hours ago, rbjtech said:

On the DTS-HD - I don't have an issue passing through DTS via a Fire-TV 4K max to my sons Panasonic TV.   The Fire-TV stick does not support DTS-HD.

The 2023 fire stick 4k max absolutely supports DTS-HD passthrough. 

I know it's true because I've seen it for myself. DTS-HD, DTS-X, even DTS-X IMAX Enhanced all bitstream via Kodi v20 for me.

Dolby TrueHD/Atmos, DD+ EAC-3 JOC all come through fine in Emby. I get no audio with any of the lossless DTS tracks, however, so Emby still has some work to do.

[Luke 37090]

3 hours ago, signde said:

The 2023 fire stick 4k max absolutely supports DTS-HD passthrough. 

I know it's true because I've seen it for myself. DTS-HD, DTS-X, even DTS-X IMAX Enhanced all bitstream via Kodi v20 for me.

Dolby TrueHD/Atmos, DD+ EAC-3 JOC all come through fine in Emby. I get no audio with any of the lossless DTS tracks, however, so Emby still has some work to do.

Hi.  Can you try sideloading our standard android app on the same device and see how that compares?

https://emby.media/emby-for-android.html

Thanks.

 

[kaledi 32]

On 1/26/2024 at 8:03 AM, rbjtech said:

Lots of factors here.

An original BR Rip is DV profile 7 with HDR10 - there is no such thing as a BR Rip with HDR10+ ..   To note, the FireTV 4K+ does not play DV7 Profiles .. 

A modified BR Rip to DV profile 8, with either a DV to HDR10+ metadata added, or added from a streamed HDR10+  THESE are the problem files for the FireTV 4K+.

So it has nothing to do with DV per-say - it's a combo of DV and HDR10+ (HDR10 works fine) as a fallback compatibility codec that the Fire TV Stick does not appear to like.    Yes it's ideally for Amazon to resolve,  Google (the creators of Exoplayer) are reluctant to do a workaround for what is a device specific firmware issue and ultimately a 'scene or homebrew' release.  (ie not a legit format available via disk or stream).. 

On the DTS-HD - I don't have an issue passing through DTS via a Fire-TV 4K max to my sons Panasonic TV.   The Fire-TV stick does not support DTS-HD.

On a proper passthrough to an AVR, I've only tested with a Shield Pro to Denon AVR - that supports DTS-HD passthrough just fine.  Shield also plays DV7 Profiles..

Yes the FTV App allows you to force the maximum bitrate to up to 1000 Mbps (on the Shield anyway).

Bottom line - if you want to play all DV profiles and passthrough all HD Audio profiles to an AVR - the Shield Pro is still the only device that does this - BUT does not work with HDR10+ (it ignores it and just plays HDR10), nor does it do AV1 h/w decoding .. 

Thank you for your reply and explanation, and the following isn't meant to challenge this knowledge, but help me further understand, as I clearly had a simplified understanding of HDR implementation and particularly DV on Blu Rays.

I understood that all discs have HDR10, and then some had meta data for DV and, or HDR10+

There are countless HDR10 only discs and countless with DV

There are far fewer with HDR10+ HDR layer available, for example 1917 does, and it doesn't have DV

There are a few with both HDR10+ and DV available, for example the Back to the Future series.

Now, I don't claim to know how this is implemented, but your explanation seems to suggest that a BR can't have HDR10+ per se?

I also conclude from your explanation that FTV can't play profile 7, and I've read elsewhere that conversion to profile 8 helps, but again based on above, not when a DV to HDR10+ conversion is added.  Is thie correct?

In terms of hardware, yes I agree a Shield TV plays everything and all of my DV rips are profile 7.  The FTV does not.

The FTV has no issue playing HDR10+ embedded in a BR rip (1917 is a good example) but not when DV is also present - and this indeed seems to cause the server to try and transcode on the FTV app, but not the standard app

 

 

[rbjtech 4276]

2 hours ago, kaledi said:

There are a few with both HDR10+ and DV available, for example the Back to the Future series.

Thanks for the info - I stand corrected  - I've never seen a commercial UHD disk with both dynamic HDR standards - so thanks for the example.

[rbjtech 4276]

12 hours ago, signde said:

The 2023 fire stick 4k max absolutely supports DTS-HD passthrough. 

I know it's true because I've seen it for myself. DTS-HD, DTS-X, even DTS-X IMAX Enhanced all bitstream via Kodi v20 for me.

Dolby TrueHD/Atmos, DD+ EAC-3 JOC all come through fine in Emby. I get no audio with any of the lossless DTS tracks, however, so Emby still has some work to do.

ok thanks for the info - this is very recent kodi release (last couple of weeks)- but you also need to use Kodi in order for it to work.      So saying it 'supports' it is imo stretching it currently - once Exo or the other mainstream players can pass it though (without 'hacks') - then we can say it supports DTS-HD MA/X etc - which is obviously good for everyone.

If it supported DV7 and had a 1Gig Ethernet interface, then it may finally be time to say goodbye to the Shield Pro - but alas, no firmware is gonna fix that ...   

[signde 25]

1 hour ago, rbjtech said:

ok thanks for the info - this is very recent kodi release (last couple of weeks)- but you also need to use Kodi in order for it to work.      So saying it 'supports' it is imo stretching it currently - once Exo or the other mainstream players can pass it though (without 'hacks') - then we can say it supports DTS-HD MA/X etc - which is obviously good for everyone.

If it supported DV7 and had a 1Gig Ethernet interface, then it may finally be time to say goodbye to the Shield Pro - but alas, no firmware is gonna fix that ...   

for what it is worth, even the official spec sheet now says DTS-HD passthrough is supported. granted, it says DTS core, but that is legit confirmation. amazon also told the plex devs passthrough is supported and they had it working in exo at one point.

as for the ethernet issue - the wifi driver in this thing is absolute trash and the device chokes on even low bitrate content over the network. picked up a $20 USB2 ethernet dongle and now it's working well. getting a solid 300mbs which is plenty for all of my content.

[signde 25]

11 hours ago, Luke said:

Hi.  Can you try sideloading our standard android app on the same device and see how that compares?

https://emby.media/emby-for-android.html

Thanks.

mentioned this here but i also tried the latest standard android app with the same results. the dashboard shows direct play of DTS but my AVR isn't getting anything - it still shows the format of the last file i played.