Issues playing 4k on Sony TV but not in webplayer

[superdonpan 3]

I'm having issues playing pretty much all 4k videos in Emby on my Sony XR65A90J. It takes a looong time to start playing and when it does it only plays a few seconds before starting to buffer again. If I try watching the same files in the browser on my computer or in the app on my iPhone then it works fine and flawless like any other video file. Looking at the short info it looks identical for both instances. I've attached the logs.

In this example it's a big 5,5gig file for only a 15minute clip but as said it works flawless on the computer and phone.

Is there a setting or something that I can change to get this working on my TV as well?

Stats for Sony TV

 

Stats for webplayer on computer

ffmpeg-transcode-e5dfec0f-2b6f-4d97-96d1-fdfaefa358c5_1.txt

[Luke 37233]

Hi.  Can you try sideloading our standard android app on the same device and see how that compares?

https://emby.media/emby-for-android.html

Thanks.

 

[superdonpan 3]

I'm probably an idiot here but do you mean to install Emby manually on the Sony TV like I used to have to do on my Samsung TV? I tried that and the TV sees the USB-drive as empty. You also linked to Emby for Android phones which made me a bit unsure.

Based on the link you sent it sounds like there's way more complicated ways of doing it but problem is I don't have an Android phone or pad. One of the videos did it by installing an app on the TV called sidebuddy but it would mean I have to start Emby via sidebuddy everytime I use it.

Sorry again but this seems like unfamiliar ground to me.

Edited August 27, 2023 by superdonpan

[Luke 37233]

20 minutes ago, superdonpan said:

I'm probably an idiot here but do you mean to install Emby manually on the Sony TV like I used to have to do on my Samsung TV? I tried that and the TV sees the USB-drive as empty. You also linked to Emby for Android phones which made me a bit unsure.

Based on the link you sent it sounds like there's way more complicated ways of doing it but problem is I don't have an Android phone or pad. One of the videos did it by installing an app on the TV called sidebuddy but it would mean I have to start Emby via sidebuddy everytime I use it.

Sorry again but this seems like unfamiliar ground to me.

Right, sorry. I wasn't asking you to use this permanently. It was mainly a troubleshooting question to see if our other app would handle it better. If you're unable to sideload it then that's fine.

[superdonpan 3]

16 minutes ago, Luke said:

Right, sorry. I wasn't asking you to use this permanently. It was mainly a troubleshooting question to see if our other app would handle it better. If you're unable to sideload it then that's fine.

I can try the sideload buddy app (google play store) approach if that qualifies as sideloading?

Edited August 27, 2023 by superdonpan

[superdonpan 3]

Turns out Sideload buddy costs €5 so I tried another app called Sideload launcher and using Emby with it experienced the same issues with the same file. Saying that I don't know if this qualified as sideloading but anyhow. At least it's been tested.

[Luke 37233]

2 minutes ago, superdonpan said:

Turns out Sideload buddy costs €5 so I tried another app called Sideload launcher and using Emby with it experienced the same issues with the same file. Saying that I don't know if this qualified as sideloading but anyhow. At least it's been tested.

Just to make sure, what was the app version number that you tried?

[superdonpan 3]

56 minutes ago, Luke said:

Just to make sure, what was the app version number that you tried?

I just installed "File Commander" on the TV and via it I could upload the android apl to the tv via a web ui. With both File Commander and Sideload buddy it seemed like an identical app to the one already on my TV in all instances which is 2.0.83g. On Sideload buddy I actually think it was just running the already installed app actually.

Anyways, in all cases the same inability to play the 4k files.

 

ffmpeg-transcode-211fa1f7-471d-47d3-96fa-cba7d7da7f62_1.txt

[ebr 14958]

Hi.  The TV is requiring a conversion due to the video level.  This is also a high-bitrate item and your server is simply not able to transcode it fast enough for smooth playback.  Only getting about 9 fps.

15 hours ago, superdonpan said:

just installed "File Commander" on the TV and via it I could upload the android apl to the tv via a web ui.

Make sure the APK you are sideloading is downloaded from the link provided above and is the normal Android app, not for Android TV.  Thanks.

[rbjtech 4324]

the profile is level 5.2 - which is likely a 60fps 4K using h264.

A quick look has not revealed if the Sony TV can play this - I suspect being a high end OLED it's technically capable (the panel certainly is), but Android (it's OS) is reporting it cannot.

If you could record in hevc (aka h265) then it would direct play on the TV and not need transcoding in the first place.

On the AndroidTV App (the original App you tried) - in debug mode - it may be worth sending 'logs' to confirm this.

23.976/24 or 30 fps 4K h264 should play ok (profile 5.1) ?

[superdonpan 3]

On 8/28/2023 at 4:09 PM, ebr said:

Hi.  The TV is requiring a conversion due to the video level.  This is also a high-bitrate item and your server is simply not able to transcode it fast enough for smooth playback.  Only getting about 9 fps.

As said it plays fine on webplayer and on the phone. So the server conversion should not be the issue since it's doing the same conversion on all devices it seems.

 

On 8/28/2023 at 4:09 PM, ebr said:

Make sure the APK you are sideloading is downloaded from the link provided above and is the normal Android app, not for Android TV.  Thanks.

I installed the arm7 version Emby for Android (3.3.29) now. It behaves even more odd. First play attempt it loads the black screen when I try to play it, on the server dashboard it says that it's actually playing and counting up the seconds but on the tv it's just a black screen, I press pause to see what happens and in the server dashboard says I've finished playing it. I try to go back and starting it again but this time the server just say that I've finished playing it again without ever starting. So all in all a bit odd but basically it never started playing on the TV.

Attached three logs as well.
First log: first attempt playing (ffmpeg-transcode-b7271fa4-0ea3-40d0-8171-f2e973704150_1 first play attempt.txt)
Second log: first atempt finished playing (ffmpeg-transcode-e50b29f2-2b00-4011-8f24-fa614b88693a_1 first play attempt finish.txt)
Third log: last atempt playing (ffmpeg-transcode-0dc74a51-6181-468c-bb98-04079c2e0fe2_1 last play attempt.txt)

ffmpeg-transcode-0dc74a51-6181-468c-bb98-04079c2e0fe2_1 last play attempt.txt ffmpeg-transcode-e50b29f2-2b00-4011-8f24-fa614b88693a_1 first play attempt finish.txt ffmpeg-transcode-b7271fa4-0ea3-40d0-8171-f2e973704150_1 first play attempt.txt

[ebr 14958]

13 hours ago, superdonpan said:

As said it plays fine on webplayer and on the phone. So the server conversion should not be the issue

We'd have to look at an example from that playback but I can tell you that, in the example you provided, your server was transcoding at a rate of 9 frames per second and that is never going to produce playable video.  The phone and browser are running on more powerful hardware than your TV is.

13 hours ago, superdonpan said:

I installed the arm7 version Emby for Android (3.3.29) now. It behaves even more odd. First play attempt it loads the black screen when I try to play it, on the server dashboard it says that it's actually playing and counting up the seconds but on the tv it's just a black screen, I press pause to see what happens and in the server dashboard says I've finished playing it. I try to go back and starting it again but this time the server just say that I've finished playing it again without ever starting. So all in all a bit odd but basically it never started playing on the TV.

That would tend to confirm the TV doesn't support that video level.

[Luke 37233]

17 hours ago, superdonpan said:

As said it plays fine on webplayer and on the phone. So the server conversion should not be the issue since it's doing the same conversion on all devices it seems.

 

I installed the arm7 version Emby for Android (3.3.29) now. It behaves even more odd. First play attempt it loads the black screen when I try to play it, on the server dashboard it says that it's actually playing and counting up the seconds but on the tv it's just a black screen, I press pause to see what happens and in the server dashboard says I've finished playing it. I try to go back and starting it again but this time the server just say that I've finished playing it again without ever starting. So all in all a bit odd but basically it never started playing on the TV.

Attached three logs as well.
First log: first attempt playing (ffmpeg-transcode-b7271fa4-0ea3-40d0-8171-f2e973704150_1 first play attempt.txt)
Second log: first atempt finished playing (ffmpeg-transcode-e50b29f2-2b00-4011-8f24-fa614b88693a_1 first play attempt finish.txt)
Third log: last atempt playing (ffmpeg-transcode-0dc74a51-6181-468c-bb98-04079c2e0fe2_1 last play attempt.txt)

ffmpeg-transcode-0dc74a51-6181-468c-bb98-04079c2e0fe2_1 last play attempt.txt 88 kB · 0 downloads ffmpeg-transcode-e50b29f2-2b00-4011-8f24-fa614b88693a_1 first play attempt finish.txt 15.69 kB · 0 downloads ffmpeg-transcode-b7271fa4-0ea3-40d0-8171-f2e973704150_1 first play attempt.txt 14.9 kB · 0 downloads

It could be a different type of conversion for the web app. Can we see a log example from that? Thanks.

[superdonpan 3]

Just did some more tests.

Played the video on webplayer but it didn't render a ffmpeg log.

Disconnected my computer from lan and connected to my phones 5g instead and the video plays perfectly fine. However doesn't produce a log either. Only have the stats for nerds box to share from it.

 

Disconnected my phone from wifi and played the video perfectly fine but didn't render an ffmpeg log either. Only have the stats for nerds info to share this time as well.

Only logs that where updated during all of this was the embyserver log.

[rbjtech 4324]

As has been explained above - the web browser and phone are both playing the video without the need for transcoding - thus no ffmpeg log.   However, the TV does not and thus it does need to transcode because it does not appear to support the h264 codec level required for 4K @ 60 fps.  Unfortunately, your emby server does not have sufficient processing power to transcode the video to display at anywhere near the required 60fps - the log suggests it's only managing 9 fps.

I am surprised however that the TV cannot play this codec natively, as it's a top end Sony OLED TV but the codec choice used in the video is not mainstream for this type of video.   For 4K, especially 60fps content, HEVC (aka h265) is almost always used (and well supported) - but in this case, AVC (aka h264) is being used instead - which is the core of your problem.

[Luke 37233]

@superdonpan has this helped answer your question?

[superdonpan 3]

On 8/31/2023 at 9:37 AM, rbjtech said:

As has been explained above - the web browser and phone are both playing the video without the need for transcoding - thus no ffmpeg log.   However, the TV does not and thus it does need to transcode because it does not appear to support the h264 codec level required for 4K @ 60 fps.  Unfortunately, your emby server does not have sufficient processing power to transcode the video to display at anywhere near the required 60fps - the log suggests it's only managing 9 fps.

I am surprised however that the TV cannot play this codec natively, as it's a top end Sony OLED TV but the codec choice used in the video is not mainstream for this type of video.   For 4K, especially 60fps content, HEVC (aka h265) is almost always used (and well supported) - but in this case, AVC (aka h264) is being used instead - which is the core of your problem.

Sorry for my absence. I've been out sick as well as travelling so haven't had the chance to pick this up until now.

Tbh this is one of the things I haven't thought about at all, just expecting a top-end TV to support the lot of modern formats. When I look at Sony's page it lists both 264 and 265 as supported. However I can't find information about how high resolution and frame rate it supports. Where did you find this info and what formats a tv natively supports?

One thing I know about the two formats though is that 265 is usually heavier for the player to transcode and it's why I've always favoured 264 over it. But after your point about my TV not supporting 264 4k but supporting 265 4k I tried converting this file to 265 and saving it to the server and wouldn't you know, it worked. No logs, no lag, no issues. Flawless. Heureka! I guess I just have to convert all my 264 4k material to 265 

Edited September 17, 2023 by superdonpan

[blgentry 49]

I'm going to give some advice that not everyone agrees with.  If you don't agree with my advice, that's totally fine for both of us.  This is JUST MY OPINION.

 

Smart TVs are the worst possible source for video apps.  They get the least attention from the manufacturer, the least attention from developers, and are usually on somewhat slow hardware.  Using an external streaming box, with a decent processor, and video decoding, is a much better idea.

 

For me the two premium set top boxes today are the Apple TV and the Nvidia Shield.  For Emby the clear choice between the two is the Shield.  The Emby Android TV app runs on the shield quite well.  It is not perfect, but it is very good.  By contrast the Emby app for AppleTV is sort of primitive and not very attractive or capable.

 

The Shield has native codecs (in hardware) for H.264 and H.265 and thus plays both without transcoding.  I'm always kind of shocked that anyone uses any box or smart tv app that requires transcoding.  For me this indicates that you do not have the right hardware.  Transcoding is evil.  Native support or Codecs is what you want.  Life is easy and everything works correctly when you have the right setup.

 

Brian.

[superdonpan 3]

On 9/18/2023 at 9:14 PM, blgentry said:

I'm going to give some advice that not everyone agrees with.  If you don't agree with my advice, that's totally fine for both of us.  This is JUST MY OPINION.

 

Smart TVs are the worst possible source for video apps.  They get the least attention from the manufacturer, the least attention from developers, and are usually on somewhat slow hardware.  Using an external streaming box, with a decent processor, and video decoding, is a much better idea.

 

For me the two premium set top boxes today are the Apple TV and the Nvidia Shield.  For Emby the clear choice between the two is the Shield.  The Emby Android TV app runs on the shield quite well.  It is not perfect, but it is very good.  By contrast the Emby app for AppleTV is sort of primitive and not very attractive or capable.

 

The Shield has native codecs (in hardware) for H.264 and H.265 and thus plays both without transcoding.  I'm always kind of shocked that anyone uses any box or smart tv app that requires transcoding.  For me this indicates that you do not have the right hardware.  Transcoding is evil.  Native support or Codecs is what you want.  Life is easy and everything works correctly when you have the right setup.

 

Brian.

Appreciate the thoughts and you make some good points.

Ideally I'd cut down on devices rather than add more though. So although everything you say makes sense I think I won't switch to an external device yet.

Thanks for your input and thanks to @ebr@Lukeand @rbjtechfor all the help!

[viking19 24]

I'm glad you found a work around, but your TV should play that file directly. According to the online help guide, MP4 H264 MP@5.2 AAC-LC 3840x2160@60p over USB or network is supported. If the video plays from USB or DLNA/UPNP on the internal player then either Sony isn't relaying it's full capabilities to Emby or Emby isn't reading them correctly. The logs show the only part Emby AndroidTV doesn't like is the MP@5.2 and is converting it to HP@5.2 but staying H264, even more weird is the mobile app when trying to transcode the server is still using MP@5.2 H264. Unless I'm completely misreading the log files?

And here is the link to the manual XR65A90J with supported file types, click on Help Guide then click Using the TV with Other Devices->USB devices->Supported files and formats->Videos this applies to USB and home network.

[Luke 37233]

On 9/26/2023 at 12:47 PM, viking19 said:

I'm glad you found a work around, but your TV should play that file directly. According to the online help guide, MP4 H264 MP@5.2 AAC-LC 3840x2160@60p over USB or network is supported. If the video plays from USB or DLNA/UPNP on the internal player then either Sony isn't relaying it's full capabilities to Emby or Emby isn't reading them correctly. The logs show the only part Emby AndroidTV doesn't like is the MP@5.2 and is converting it to HP@5.2 but staying H264, even more weird is the mobile app when trying to transcode the server is still using MP@5.2 H264. Unless I'm completely misreading the log files?

And here is the link to the manual XR65A90J with supported file types, click on Help Guide then click Using the TV with Other Devices->USB devices->Supported files and formats->Videos this applies to USB and home network.

It's not that simple. Sometimes (very often actually), you have examples of files that look like they should direct play based on the media info, but the TV decoders end up having trouble with it.

There could be any number of reasons for that, for example, the bitrate being much higher than what it was designed for, files that are created using authoring tools that have their own share of bugs, etc.