Premiere device limit exceeded.

[scott46953 12]

On 2/1/2024 at 9:08 PM, Scott D said:

I have been reading this thread for a few days now and finally feel it is time to add my two cents worth.  First, I too have been a Lifetime Premier user since January of 2017.  So I’ve heard this same concern since the implementation of the device limits.  I too purchased a “Lifetime” license.  I do remember in reading the terms of the license, a clause that I will paraphrase, that indicated that the license was for the current version and subsequent updates until such time as a “major” release or change to the software was provided.  So, for the last 7 years of using Emby, I have not been presented with the need to “update my license due to a “major” upgrade.  THANK YOU EMBY STAFF!

When first implemented it took a while for me to wrap my mind around the concept of device limits.  I too had some concerns that it would be restrictive and limiting access by not only myself, but family member as well.    I have a total of 14 family members/users that are fairly active.  The longest time for inactivity by a user has been around 6 days.  Each family member has more than one device that they use for access to my server.  I personally have 3 televisions using apps (Samsung), 3 roku devices, 2 desktop computers, 1 laptop computer and a cell phone.  Emby tells me there are 45 devices that have been used.  And still my license tells me:

  “You have a Lifetime Emby Premiere plan and your device usage is well within your limit.”

Since Emby is designed, marketed, licensed and to be used as a personal server, I find it hard to believe that personal users are exceeding the limitation on devices as is currently implemented.  And yes, I do use the features that would result in a count of a device.  If you are exceeding the limits, I believe the Emby staff has offered to discuss on a per user basis to determine if an alternate solution is available for your particular situation.

So my summary of this entire discussion is; if you are not exceeding the limits, you probably have nothing to be concerned about.  If you are exceeding the limits, reach out to the staff directly.  Or, take a good look at the system you are running and ask yourself if you are living up to your obligation under the license agreement (are you running a pay to play service?). 

I agree that a more precise display of the number of devices would be helpful, but I have not had issue in 7 years of running my server so I really don’t give it much thought.

As I am writing this, I understand that version 4.8 has become available.  With all the discussion about all the added features, I am pleasantly surprised to see that this has been included in my “LIFETIME” license and not considered a “Major” release.  THANK YOU AGAIN EMBY STAFF!!!

You do not know if you family has hit a limit and had to pay, because it never told you. Would you like to call all the members and ask them?  I sure dont... but i will.  The sever just charges family members without warning or even telling the sever owner that a member has made a purchase.   So you in the 7 years, have no idea because you personally never sat down to watch football on a device you dont normally use, when the message comes up and it refuses to play live TV..  I peronsally have anywhere from 3 to 8 or more users watching live tv at any given time.  this also does not include 2-10 recordings at the same time as they are watching other channels.  It all depends on how important the server is to your users.  Mine is very important and I keep backups and hard drive clones at all times.  When i get off work, I like to watch my recorded shows or live tv without having to purchase something I have already purchased for myself.  We all have a connections limit that nobody knows if it is trueful or not.  I see 2 chrome browsers on mine just now and I only have 1 chrome browser installed and have not even hit a play button, just looked at my dashboard.

[Scott D 62]

53 minutes ago, scott46953 said:

You do not know if you family has hit a limit and had to pay, because it never told you. Would you like to call all the members and ask them?  I sure dont... but i will.  The sever just charges family members without warning or even telling the sever owner that a member has made a purchase.   

Since all of my "members" are family, I tend to talk with them either in person or in other ways on a fairly regular basis for other things.  I am quite confident that if they were asked to pay for access, they would be on the phone with me to make sure that the request was valid.

 

56 minutes ago, scott46953 said:

I peronsally have anywhere from 3 to 8 or more users watching live tv at any given time.  this also does not include 2-10 recordings at the same time as they are watching other channels.  

Sounds like one killer personal server that can handle between 5 to 18 streaming sessions.  Internet connection must be rather substantial as well.  I would be interested in knowing what type of hardware you are running because I start pushing the limits of my machine at around 6 to 8 sessions.  Must have quite the collection of TV Tuners as well.

I am impressed.

[scott46953 12]

This is off topic, but I have 1 quad hd home run atsc 2.0 HD and 1 quad hd home run atsc 3.0 UHD.  Then I have 3 paid IPTV providers providing 10,000 channels each, some have unlimited connections, some of 4 or 5 limit, I counted a total of 8 m3u files. A custom made private guide file that I made to automatically line some of the channels up with emby's DTV guide.  It's running on 8 core 16 thread CPU with the Nvidia 3060, using two nvme SSD hard drives, and I'm not on location but I believe five or six external USB hard drives, with my biggest one being a 7tb. All or which are almost full, it's getting time to upgrade soon, I also keep on hand at back up set up with a 2060 Nvidia similar computer, to swap around for emergency. And I plan on upgrading this year to the 4060.  It's all about your settings and how they're set up to handle how many connections you have. I started off running it on an Android quad core Motorola G5 several several years ago.

I'm just starting to wonder when will I be able to encode in HEVC 265 to my devices... I'm already sending it direct, just not when transcoding.  I cant find the on button.  anyway, love the new update, just a few issues,,, cant see when clicking on the convertions video what episode it is working on.  NO progress bar on it.

Also missing % on dashboard screen for the last several updates.  but back on topic

Edited February 5 by scott46953

[OSBuckeyes4Life 9]

Precisely to Scott’s comment, why does it matter what we as consumers build. I have a Dell R720 with 48cores and a crap ton of Memory and over 100TB of storage. 
 

The point is some of us spent a crap on hardware and if I want to share my server with 50 people, Emby has no right to determine who I as a provider to my family and friends can do that with, it’s not a sass solution or a corporation, it’s an application that serves up video. You wanna cap people but sell it as a lifetime subscription that’s fine, but say goodbye to your loyal customers who actually care to make Emby better. You can get my $6.99 for a few months until I have something else. Past that I have no interest in this product. 

[Scott D 62]

On 2/5/2024 at 9:58 AM, OSBuckeyes4Life said:

Precisely to Scott’s comment, why does it matter what we as consumers build. I have a Dell R720 with 48cores and a crap ton of Memory and over 100TB of storage. 

It doesn't matter what "we" have built.  I was simply commenting/admiring the capabilities of Scott's server.  I was curious for potential future upgrades to the equipment I use.

 

On 2/5/2024 at 9:58 AM, OSBuckeyes4Life said:

I have a Dell R720 with 48cores and a crap ton of Memory and over 100TB of storage. 
 

I am sure that you will be able to squeeze a few more users/devices with the knowledge you have which made it possible to squeeze the additional 32 cores out of your R720.

 

On 2/5/2024 at 9:58 AM, OSBuckeyes4Life said:

Emby has no right to determine who I as a provider to my family and friends can do that with, it’s not a sass solution or a corporation, it’s an application that serves up video. 

I haven't read the ToS in a bit, but I do remember it being stated quite clearly that it is a "Personal" Media product.  I am sure that if violations of the ToS are experienced, that Emby would have the right to terminate any paid agreement.  

Yes, it is an application that serves up video.  It is also a marketed as a "Personal" media server.  If they have determined that an arbitrary number of users is an indication that the software is not being used for "Personal" use, they have the right to limit the function, restrict the access or cancel the agreement.  They have made available an "appeals" process by opening lines of communication with them on a per license holder basis.  If your circumstances are such that they deem it an acceptable situation they have the right to make adjustments.

 

On a different subject, but similar situation.  I originally obtained Cox Communications (back when they were the @home network) as an internet provider.  It was an Unlimited service.  It included UseNet, e-mail, etc.  Then suddenly Usenet went away.  Next data caps started to appear.  Certain ports got blocked at the provider level.  Now e-mail is going away.  But I originally signed up for "Unlimited".  My price has never gone down, in fact, it keeps going up.  What right do they have to tell me what I can do with my internet service by blocking ports.  My option, as is yours, is to find another solution.  Good luck with that.

 

[scott46953 12]

To Scott D, CPU cores is only good for none accelerated features in which could max out tons of cores.  Having a good video card that is also tweaked, because if you do not patch the drivers for the video then the manufacturer has a limit of I believe 2-4 streams.  After the tweak patch Nvidia cards become unlimited streams. So having tons of CPU cores means very little to my project.  If someone is illegally using emby or using it to serve illegal videos... I would hope they would cut them off. I have paid servers I get my video from.  But falsely accusing and shutting off may result in losing other customers and others never coming to emby, resulting in freeware jellyfun taking over.  But we don't want or need that, we need to keep and stay focused on Emby and please for any future replys,..

 this topic is for connections limits, let's get back on topic

[xxDeadbolt 2]

I’m new to Emby, actively testing as an alternative to my current set up. I just can’t get my head round the device limit, as in what counts/doesnt.

I've seen different interpretations in other posts of the FAQs which contradict each other, so hoping I can get a concrete answer here

So I have several family members on my current media server that I’m confused on whether I’d breach the device limit with. I’m specifically looking at the transcoding feature: if the total devices my family use is, for example, 30. They all transcode something at least once a week, this will breach the device limit?

I’m leaning to thinking yes; however, I’ve seen people say transcoding wouldn’t count towards my Premier limit, it would be covered by them purchasing the app on their phone or firestick or whatever. Can someone clarify this for me please? 

 

[OSBuckeyes4Life 9]

I guess I can try and help since I have created a ton of angry people here and Emby team please understand, I am not against you at all.  I f****ing love Emby and my threats of leaving are not to be taken seriously.  There is nothing that compares to this server, no not even PLEX.

@xxDeadboltIf a TV/iPad/iPhone uses one of the features listed here, and it is using something in the "Premiere" line, it will count as one device using premiere.  This is where I have had gripe and been pissed in the past is because if you turn Intro Skipping on, you would have to manually turn that specific setting off for a user to not count, but what if they are using Theme Songs and Videos, it's just not simple to turn Premiere off for a user so that is what frustrates me.  I have users I would love to just give access and that is it, but it's not just as simple as that.  Also you have no insight into whom is using and what premiere features they are using so it's not really even up to you. 

You can also go to your Server, Settings - Emby Premiere and it will tell you the status of your Integration Key and how close you are to the limit (Appears to only have three settings, 1. You are good, 2. You are close to your limit, 3. You are over your limit, upgrade to get more). I do get why this is being enforced, I just wish I had to opportunity to manage it and allow only certain users to have Premiere.  Maybe that needs to be an enhancement.

Overall, please keep testing, Emby is fan tas tic!

[scott46953 12]

On 3/14/2024 at 5:41 PM, TMCsw said:

I have some TV Shows or Movies that I have recorded a few year back and they are of lower quality (mostly 480p) now I want to replace them with Higher Resolution versions of say 1080i/p… ..get the idea?

So I as you, wont this to be an optional (per recording) setting also.

 

On 3/29/2024 at 6:23 PM, richt said:

How about running a beta instance in a docker container for the sole purpose of recording missing episodes?

 

On 2/5/2024 at 10:04 AM, Scott D said:

Since all of my "members" are family, I tend to talk with them either in person or in other ways on a fairly regular basis for other things.  I am quite confident that if they were asked to pay for access, they would be on the phone with me to make sure that the request was valid.

 

Sounds like one killer personal server that can handle between 5 to 18 streaming sessions.  Internet connection must be rather substantial as well.  I would be interested in knowing what type of hardware you are running because I start pushing the limits of my machine at around 6 to 8 sessions.  Must have quite the collection of TV Tuners as well.

I am impressed.

All you need is a very good video card, I recommend at least Nvidia GeForce 2060 or better, also a lot of it is in the settings of how you transcode.  Quality versus fast. Also internet speed depends on how many mbs of video you're sending out.  All you got to have is a calculator, but nowadays when internet providers are providing upload equal to download speeds.. it doesn't take lunch anymore to have a 500/500 Mb line or even a gigabit.. but I guess it depends on where you live.

[scott46953 12]

Basically, if you transcode, use the TV tuner, or use a device like an Xbox or I think even a TV like Vizio, those all count as premiere.  But whether or not each person is counted one time instead of multiple times that's still in the air.  They do not want to provide how they count and when they count.  They don't want to provide any details, they say it's because of security.  But then again I see my device limit getting reached, and then I logged my Lane connection and I never see my device limit getting near what they say I am. After dealing with us several buffering issues on IPTV, several of my watchers have disappeared, so my connection limit should be going down, but I seem to be on auto pay extending my connections every month.  They don't want to add a auto restart in the tasks, everyone wants to fix the buffering issue, but wants me to remove commercial skip plug-in... To test to see if it fixes the problem.. since I don't want to go without my commercial skip, I decided to manually reboot my server once a day. Which I think needs to be done anyways.  Anyways good luck everybody.. I'll return as needed

[ebr 14960]

Transcoding is not a Premiere feature.  Hardware Accelerated transcoding it.  However, even given that, transcoding is purely a server function and does not factor into the device limit at all.

[scott46953 12]

Nobody wants to transcode without being accelerated, how many devices will that support one, if you're lucky

[xxDeadbolt 2]

7 minutes ago, ebr said:

Transcoding is not a Premiere feature.  Hardware Accelerated transcoding it.  However, even given that, transcoding is purely a server function and does not factor into the device limit at all.

So this is my confusion. when I mentioned transcoding, I meant hardware accelerated transcoding (with QuickSync in my case)..  Is this not purely a server function also? 

I wouldn't use most of the other Premier features, so not concerned about hitting a limit with them. It's just hardware transcoding via QuickSync which may cause me issues.

[ebr 14960]

Transcoding (of any kind) does not factor into the device limit calculation because it happens entirely on the server.

[xxDeadbolt 2]

Ok thanks for confirming - to add to the query then, would mobile apps count or are they covered by the ‘App Unlock’ section?

 

 

[pünktchen 1262]

2 hours ago, ebr said:

Transcoding is not a Premiere feature.  Hardware Accelerated transcoding it.  However, even given that, transcoding is purely a server function and does not factor into the device limit at all.

That's a really, really important information! What about the other features that are listed on the Emby Premiere Feature Matrix under Server/Apps? It's not clear whether they are a server feature or not. Best example is Intro Skip. Is it a server feature because the server provides the availability/functionality to the clients or does the use of that feature in the client apps count towards the device limit?

[TMCsw 123]

3 hours ago, ebr said:

Transcoding (of any kind) does not factor into the device limit calculation because it happens entirely on the server.

So theoretically I could have 1,000,000+ user streaming from my (Emby Premiere enabled/Paid server) simultaneously with (HW)transcoding and enabled Intro Skip(also server based) as long as they are using devices that don’t count (such as a browser or ROKU or a PAID app)? ?

 

[Happy2Play 8361]

1 hour ago, TMCsw said:

So theoretically I could have 1,000,000+ user streaming from my (Emby Premiere enabled/Paid server) simultaneously with (HW)transcoding and enabled Intro Skip(also server based) as long as they are using devices that don’t count (such as a browser or ROKU or a PAID app)? ?

 

Yes assuming you have the hardware and network that can handle them.

[xxDeadbolt 2]

So, really, the device limits would only include are live tv, offline media, Apple Watch and CarPlay/Android Auto support? Assuming paying for full playback on an app also wouldn’t count towards the limit?

That would directly contradict the FAQs:

 

“So how do I determine if the limit will be okay for me?

Look at the Feature Matrix and note the features you use that are NOT in the "Free" column. Count the number of devices your users will use for just those features.”

 

I don’t get why it’s so vague, unclear and deliberately misleading! I just want to know if Emby is definitely fit for my use, without having to set up my family accounts, help them install etc only to find I hit the limit and end up having to move back to my current set up

[ebr 14960]

14 hours ago, pünktchen said:

Best example is Intro Skip

That will count.  Anything that is configured in the app (which that is) will count towards the limit.

But as I've always said, all this hand-wringing about the device limit before even trying it is wasted IMO.  The VAST majority of our users have no issue with the limit because we designed it to work well for the intended purpose of the system.  Just get the regular license and only worry about the limit if you start running into an issue with it.

[pünktchen 1262]

6 minutes ago, ebr said:

The VAST majority of our users have no issue with the limit because we designed it to work well for the intended purpose of the system.

I also do not have any issue with the limit. I just wanted to point out that the documentation lacks transparency.

[scott46953 12]

I've already done my part of this conversation, 

I still feel like it should not be a ghost number, I could have two users, user decide to sign in on 10 different devices, now I got 11 connections,,,,, if I got 10 people and they all decided to do something like that definitely be screwed,,  sign in at work, sign in on my mobile device phone, sign in on my laptop, to sign in on my home computer, sign in in the living room on the fire stick, sign in on the Roku on the same TV, sign in in the kitchen, sign in and each one of my bedrooms... Now I got to repeat all this for each user, those connections aren't lasting very long..

Edit: I don't really have just two users, this was just an example. I have a lot more than two..

Edited May 15 by scott46953

[xxDeadbolt 2]

1 hour ago, ebr said:

The VAST majority of our users have no issue with the limit because we designed it to work well for the intended purpose of the system.  Just get the regular license and only worry about the limit if you start running into an issue with it.

This isn't the best approach. Most people would like to know if something is going to cause a headache before it occurs. The time I'd need to spend getting things up and running user-wise, then with my family to just show them the app (even if it is a simple enough interface), to then find out shortly down the line I'm hitting a device limit is just not worth it. Documentation should be a million times clearer with some absolutes in what will count towards this limitation.

FWIW, I have no issue with the licence or the limit set, I just want to be completely sure before investing the time and the vague nature of this is the 1 things that's stopping me. 

[Spaceboy 2507]

1 hour ago, ebr said:

But as I've always said, all this hand-wringing about the device limit before even trying it is wasted IMO.  The VAST majority of our users have no issue with the limit because we designed it to work well for the intended purpose of the system.  Just get the regular license and only worry about the limit if you start running into an issue with it.

i also don't have any problem with the limits being in place. But the lack of transparency is a problem for all users.

You can see right here in this thread a new user is unclear whether its worth putting the time and effort into building an emby server as they already have an alternative that is working. This has to be hurting your new user sales!

And then as an existing user - i have no idea how many devices i am allowed as i have been here a while and picked up some additional licences that were offered in the past. I am very confident i am well inside the limits but i don't what what the limit is or even what my rough current device count is.

Given the consistent complaints over this for a long time its surprising you havent done anything to improve it, even for new users which will benefit yourselves

[scott46953 12]

Example, I have been setting somebody up one time, drove 30 minutes to their house, turn on their TV, install emby, made an account, sign them in, clicked on live TV, first thing I get upgrade subscription required... Embarrassingly, I have to pull out my wallet and upgrade the connection limit on the server...  And then play dum...   Not sure why it's doing that, somebody the night before must have signed in all their devices all at the same time,,, who knows what the reason was. But had I knew some kind of indication before I left to go there, I would have done it before I went..  so every time I add somebody and they can do it themselves with the easy instructions, I fear of the message...