EPG Data Not Showing Up. Multiple Questions???

[MarcusJ 18]

I'm fighting hard to get Live TV through an IPTV provider working thru emby, but so far having almost 0 success.

In a separate thread, someone pointed me to NextPVR  as a possible solution. I downloaded NextPVR for Windows and installed it. After logging in, I went to device settings and inserted the M3U url supplied by the IPTV provider. Initially, I did not specify a separate url for the epg source. I clicked on IMPORT and it seemed to work as all of the channels I expected showed up, BUT there was no Guide Date and the channels had no logos. NextPVR then asked if I wanted to update the epg and then download channel logos. I did both, but there was no change to the Guide Date or the channel logos. Not convinced that I didn't need a separate url for Guide Data, I requested the url for the epg source from my iptv provider. They provided the XMLTV url, and I inserted it into the device settings of NextPVR and again did an epg refresh, but it made absolutely no difference at all. The channels were all there, but they all looked generic, colorless, and none of them had logos.

Interestingly, this is nearly the exact same experience I had when trying to set up Live TV in emby. I set up the TV Source Type as M3U and inserted the M3U url. It showed the EPG Refresh going on for about 18-19 hours (seriously). I hoped that meant it was downloading all kinds of cool details that I would love...Well, when it finished, the only thing that showed up was the channels - exactly the same behavior that I saw in NextPVR. On the emby Channel Management page, all of the channels were listed but every one of them said it was not associated with guide data.

I then looked at NextPVR on Wiki (https://github.com/sub3/NextPVR/wiki) and found this comment:  "NextPVR also supports Schedules Direct and XMLTV. Schedules Direct is usually required for North American users, where broadcast listings are often inadequate for use in a PVR."

As a North American user, I found this interesting because I thought it might explain why the Guide Data and logos weren't getting downloaded and associated with the channels that were downloaded.

Then I went to the Schedules Direct website (schedulesdirect.org) and found an alarming statement... "On June 1, 2021 we will block the Emby application from the SD-JSON service." Hmmm...so according to these two statements, XMLTV EPG guide data is inadequate for North America and Schedules Direct should be used, but Schedules Direct is blocking emby as of June 2021. If both statements are true, it would seem that getting a working IPTV Live TV service with a working EPG working thru emby in North America is by definition not possible. 

Am I missing something or does this explain my difficulties getting this to work? Any help would be appreciated. I'm about to give up.

[emveepee 112]

In your other thread I asked you to install NextPVR and see if the EPG loaded.,   Of course you need to add the URL for both URLs.  After adding the EPG URL as a second step looks like channels didn' map  so go to the  Settings Channels page again click Advanced Tools - Automap and fill out the dialog so see if they map.  If the don't I would suggest an issue with the tvg-id and you might need to manually map each channel.

Since this is a NextPVR support question I would say continue your post on the NextPVR forum and include zipped logs with future requests.

For NextPVR this has nothing to do with Schedules Direct.  Besides, if you used Schedules Direct it would be allowed for NextPVR's guide.   The reason we recommend SD for North America is you get two+ weeks of good, legal metadata with art and updates are fast.  OTA data for broadcast might be 8 hours or less and the pirated IPTV EPG data might be one day.

Martin

 

[sub3 64]

11 hours ago, MarcusJ said:

I downloaded NextPVR for Windows and installed it. After logging in, I went to device settings and inserted the M3U url supplied by the IPTV provider. Initially, I did not specify a separate url for the epg source. I clicked on IMPORT and it seemed to work as all of the channels I expected showed up, BUT there was no Guide Date and the channels had no logos. NextPVR then asked if I wanted to update the epg and then download channel logos. I did both, but there was no change to the Guide Date or the channel logos. Not convinced that I didn't need a separate url for Guide Data, I requested the url for the epg source from my iptv provider. They provided the XMLTV url, and I inserted it into the device settings of NextPVR and again did an epg refresh, but it made absolutely no difference at all. The channels were all there, but they all looked generic, colorless, and none of them had logos.

I'd suggest going into the NextPVR Settings->Devices page, hold the ctrl key on your keyboard, and click the 'delete' button that appears on your specific IPTV device. Go back into the back into the generic 'IPTV' device, click 'import m3u', and supply your m3u and xmltv urls and click import. (ie, import the m3u and xml at the same time - this is a lot more straight forward than trying to add the EPG to the IPTV channels at a later stage)

You should now see the list of channels, ready to save. At this point, before saving, I'd suggest filtering out the channel you're not going to be using. There is no point in importing 20,000 TV channels you're never going to watch. These unused channels will just make your database bigger and slower, and make everything a less enjoyable experience. Click the 'filter channels' button, untick 'Select All', then just tick the group's you'd really want to keep. for example, you might select UK / US channels and leave the rest unselected. Then click 'Save', and accept it's offer to update the EPG. 

Edited April 6, 2022 by sub3

[MarcusJ 18]

Excellent suggestions from emveepee and sub3! Thank you both!

I'm at work, but will try again later.

[MarcusJ 18]

OK, I am having more success now thanks to your advice. It's not great, but I now have hope! A still have a few questions:

1. sub3 - When setting up NPVR on Windows (not the NPVR emby plugin), is it better to use the M3U/XMLTV url's for importing channels or is it better to use the single XC url? IPTV provider will supply both to me if requested.
2. sub3 - after I follow the steps you outlined above and have a smaller (filtered) channel list and EPG and have "Saved" it within NPVR, is there any way to then save or export this channel list information to a (new) url (or other format) that can be then input into emby so that only those channels of interest are imported into emby? To clarify...Unless there is some way to take advantage of this smaller channel list within emby, it really does me no good, as running Live TV on emby (via the NPVR plugin) is the goal. If I have to go through the very very painful task of hand picking the individual channels I want in the emby Channel Manager page, what is the benefit, if any, to reducing the channel list within NPVR?
3. sub3 - After I followed all of your recommended steps, I then pulled up the "TV Guide" view. I was pleasantly surprised that there were at least SOME channel logos and a few channels with guide data. I had never made it that far before. However, the VAST majority of the channels had nether a logo or guide data. Also, my random testing indicated that any channel that had guide data DID play when I selected "Watch Now", but all of those channels without guide data were completely hit-or-miss. Some played, most did not and gave me an error about the "Transcoder Exited"??? This was NOT just for obscure channels. Most of the channels including major broadcast and cable network channels had no logos or guide data and did not play when I tried "Watch Now". How is this possible? I assume this has nothing to do with NextPVR per se, but rather with the IPTV provider or something else stupid that I am doing. Can you PLEASE help me understand what causes this and what would be prudent steps to take to fix or at least improve this?
4. emveepee - Assuming I have NextPVR all setup on my Windows box (same box as hosts emby server), and I want to configure Live TV on emby to leverage that NextPVR setup...I go to emby Live TV>Setup>TV Source>NextPVR, what is the next step? Should I select "Detect My Devices", or should I provide a url in the "URL:" field, or both? If the answer is to supply a url, then what url is emby looking for in that field? Is it the M3U url supplied by the IPTV provider? If so, won't that simply download ALL of the channels including those from Afghanistan, Zimbabwe, Mars, etc, etc... that I have no interest in? I am assuming there is some way to only import those channels that I want and have already identified on the NextPVR platform.
5. emveepee - I remain confused about the whole EPG arena. In my simple mind, when an IPTV provider gives me an M3U url and a corresponding XMLTV url, then those 2 things should be perfectly matched so that when I load the channels, ALL of the correct EPG data is loaded with those channels. Said another way - there is one EPG for that one M3U channel listing. Why then is there an emby Guide Data setting under "Guide Source". Does emby maintain some superset of guide data and channel logos for IPTV channels from all or many of the IPTV providers in the world??? It's just confusing to a semi-novice like me. It raises more questions:
   1. Will the emby Guide Data setting overwrite the guide data that was downloaded in NextPVR or does it supplement it (2 EPG sources for my channel list)?
   2. Assuming you're gonna tell me that it is at least a pretty good idea to try the emby guide data, then after I choose Live TV>Setup>Guide Data Sources>United States>Guide Source:Emby Guide Data>Zip Code 85206 I get a "Lineup" drop down asking me to select from a list of cable providers, Satellite companies, OTA, etc... How would ANYONE know what to select in this drop down? Is it not asking me to identify the source of the tv streams that my IPTV provider has packaged and supplied to me via an M3U url or XC login? If so, how could I possibly know what their source(s) are? If I asked them to tell me what their sources are for their channels, I would assume they would not tell me for reasons of security or propriety. My guessing or randomly picking one of the options from this "Lineup" drop down seems like a terrible idea and one that puts everything else that I had done up to that point in jeopardy. Please help me to understand this better.
6. Anyone - what is "DVB/ATSC" EPG and is there an alternative to it? How would an average person know what kind of EPG they need? If I selected the wrong type, does everything stop working? These questions are really kinda rhetorical, because they highlight the knowledge and communications gap between techies and the much much broader community of standard users. For emby, NextPVR or any other platform to win over the general population, random technical questions, pop-up or drop down choices, or configuration settings should never assume the users are developers or power users. 99% of us are neither.

Thank you both or anyone else that contributes to these topics. I suspect there is a huge group of users out there that have similar confusion, but aren't willing to ask "stupid" questions like I do.

[emveepee 112]

Since I suggested this as a test for you speed issue, I don't want to get involved since using NextPVR for your purpose seems totally wrong to me and I don't think you need to spend time on it if Emby is your preferred client.  Certainly don't try to get SD working with NextPVR that data is not going to be there in 4.7 and you can manually link the Emby guide data in Emby directly.

I think the key issue you are making is the bad assumption  the EPG data is going to be perfectly matched (in NextPVR or in Emby).  The free EPG data you are getting is not a commercial service it is pirated data too.  If NextPVR is not giving you EPG data we can only assume the fields that link the m3u with the EPG are either missing or poor. IF if is faster perhaps NextPVR handles this mismatch better.

Martin

Edited April 7, 2022 by emveepee

[MarcusJ 18]

1 hour ago, emveepee said:

Since I suggested this as a test for you speed issue, I don't want to get involved since using NextPVR for your purpose seems totally wrong to me and I don't think you need to spend time on it if Emby is your preferred client. 

I'm sorry, but I don't know what that means. It sounds like you see NextPVR and emby as either/or (competitors), where I simply see them as complimentary. The fact that NPVR has built an emby client suggested to me that I am using the products properly. NPVR seems to be ideal for loading, parsing, and managing IPTV channels - and watching IPTV. Emby is a broader product where I store, manage, and consume all forms of media, including movies, TV shows, home videos, family photo's and my music library. Adding Live TV to emby seemed a natural and practical solution because every TV in our home already has access to emby. NPVR seems to be a great IPTV tool which I will keep and use as an IPTV server which interfaces seamlessly, via the NextPVR plugin, with emby (at least that's what I envisioned). I thought that was exactly what users should do - interface a specialized best-of-breed product with a broader product to get the best of both. NPVR would never have built an emby  plugin client if it saw emby as a competitor. So again, I simply don't know what you mean. However, if you still see my approach as totally wrong, I respect that and will open those same questions up to sub3 or anyone else that can help.

 

2 hours ago, emveepee said:

Certainly don't try to get SD working with NextPVR that data is not going to be there in 4.7 and you can manually link the Emby guide data in Emby directly.

To my knowledge, I'm not trying to get SD working... anywhere. What data is not going to be there in 4.7? I just struggle to understand the points you are trying to make.

 

2 hours ago, emveepee said:

I think the key issue you are making is the bad assumption  the EPG data is going to be perfectly matched (in NextPVR or in Emby).  The free EPG data you are getting is not a commercial service it is pirated data too.  If NextPVR is not giving you EPG data we can only assume the fields that link the m3u with the EPG are either missing or poor. IF if is faster perhaps NextPVR handles this mismatch better.

I do understand these first 2 sentences, and that helps. But then you refer to "the fields that link m3u with the EPG" being missing or poor. What fields are you referring to? I didn't populate fields tying them together, I simply plugged in the m3u url and XMLTV url that the provider supplied and clicked go. You also say that perhaps NPVR handles this mismatch better. Again, in my simple mind, I didn't realize that emby dealt with channels/epg mismatches. Next PVR does - it has an Auto-Map function which I assume is meant to help with this mis-match. This is consistent with my view that NPVR is an excellent IPTV server which helps create and manage IPTV channels and the corresponding EPG data, which then gets served out to various clients - one of which is emby.

Empeevee, I appreciate ALL of your feedback. I just simply don't see this IPTV environment the same way you do. It feels to me that you believe users should choose NPVR or emby and use them to the exclusion of the other. Am I characterizing that correcly? My core confusion on that point is the mere existence of the NPVR plugin. If this exclusionary view of the two platforms is right, why does this plugin exist?

[emveepee 112]

Agreed today the plugin works well and the systems are complementary, but unfortunately as of Emby V4.7 it really is either/or because of an API change.   Scheduling and recordings become completely independent so for the average user it will be too complicated to manage the two programs.  Emby have ripped out most of the integration to focus on a 100% Emby-centric  solution. 

I am confident that Emby has IPTV mapping too, and I don't want to get into the technicalities of how programs might do it but it isn't rocket science.  Personally I'd try and work with Emby to figure out what is going wrong with the mapping in your case.  Based on the number of IPTV users Emby have you might have a fairly unique problem.

You can of continue to use  NextPVR as your IPTV server and feed the channels and the EPG to Emby, remembering the EPG load really needs to be done at off hours, it is painfully slow.

Martin

Edited April 8, 2022 by emveepee

[MarcusJ 18]

Emveepee, thank you. I'm starting to understand your position. I will follow your advice and stick with an emby-only solution to avoid future problems. Is there a target date for emby 4.7?

In the mean time, I wonder if I could ask you to please read  and respond to one of the questions I asked earlier, purely for my edification.

Assuming that it is at least a pretty good idea to try the emby guide data, then after I choose Live TV>Setup>Guide Data Sources>United States>Guide Source:Emby Guide Data>Zip Code 85206 I get a "Lineup" drop down asking me to select from a list of cable providers, Satellite companies, OTA, etc... How would ANYONE know what to select in this drop down? Is it not asking me to identify the source of the tv streams that my IPTV provider has packaged and supplied to me? If so, how could I possibly know what their source(s) are? If I asked them to tell me what their sources are for their channels, I would assume they would not tell me for reasons of security or propriety. My guessing or randomly picking one of the options from this "Lineup" drop down seems like a terrible idea and one that puts everything else that I had done up to that point in jeopardy. Please help me to understand this better.

If not Emveepee, can anyone help me with this question?

[emveepee 112]

Sorry that's an Emby question and I don't know how many zip codes and postal codes lineups Emby supports.   In NextPVR a user can get most useful channels with the four that Schedules Direct typically allow (local cable, east and west satellite or cable and UK satellite).  With IPTV it is always better to reduce to the number of channels you actually will watch because it is far from automatic.

Martin

[MarcusJ 18]

Anyone?

[Luke 37063]

8 minutes ago, MarcusJ said:

Anyone?

Emby Guide Data is not really built for iptv. You could try picking a cable option, and then of course, you'll need to manually map whatever channels do happen to match up with both the guide data and m3u tuner.

But if the m3u is providing it's own xml then you're better off using that. You said they are?

[MarcusJ 18]

Yes, they provide the epg, but so far they have about a 3-5% success rate providing guide data for all the channels they provide.

I'm curious...If the Emby Guide Data is not for IPTV, what is it for?

[Luke 37063]

7 minutes ago, MarcusJ said:

Yes, they provide the epg, but so far they have about a 3-5% success rate providing guide data for all the channels they provide.

I'm curious...If the Emby Guide Data is not for IPTV, what is it for?

Over the air, cable, etc.

You can use it with iptv, you just have to find the closest channel lineup to the list of channels in your iptv, and then you'll most likely have to manually map. So you can use it, it's just that that's not what it was designed for.

[MarcusJ 18]

Thanks for the clarification. I wish I had know the primary purpose of the Live TV section before jumping into it.

[Luke 37063]

9 hours ago, MarcusJ said:

Thanks for the clarification. I wish I had know the primary purpose of the Live TV section before jumping into it.

That's not a true statement. We fully support m3u, but generally, you have to bring your own guide data.

[sub3 64]

On 08/04/2022 at 07:17, MarcusJ said:

OK, I am having more success now thanks to your advice. It's not great, but I now have hope! A still have a few questions:

1. sub3 - When setting up NPVR on Windows (not the NPVR emby plugin), is it better to use the M3U/XMLTV url's for importing channels or is it better to use the single XC url? IPTV provider will supply both to me if requested.
2. sub3 - after I follow the steps you outlined above and have a smaller (filtered) channel list and EPG and have "Saved" it within NPVR, is there any way to then save or export this channel list information to a (new) url (or other format) that can be then input into emby so that only those channels of interest are imported into emby? To clarify...Unless there is some way to take advantage of this smaller channel list within emby, it really does me no good, as running Live TV on emby (via the NPVR plugin) is the goal. If I have to go through the very very painful task of hand picking the individual channels I want in the emby Channel Manager page, what is the benefit, if any, to reducing the channel list within NPVR?
3. sub3 - After I followed all of your recommended steps, I then pulled up the "TV Guide" view. I was pleasantly surprised that there were at least SOME channel logos and a few channels with guide data. I had never made it that far before. However, the VAST majority of the channels had nether a logo or guide data. Also, my random testing indicated that any channel that had guide data DID play when I selected "Watch Now", but all of those channels without guide data were completely hit-or-miss. Some played, most did not and gave me an error about the "Transcoder Exited"??? This was NOT just for obscure channels. Most of the channels including major broadcast and cable network channels had no logos or guide data and did not play when I tried "Watch Now". How is this possible? I assume this has nothing to do with NextPVR per se, but rather with the IPTV provider or something else stupid that I am doing. Can you PLEASE help me understand what causes this and what would be prudent steps to take to fix or at least improve this?
4. emveepee - Assuming I have NextPVR all setup on my Windows box (same box as hosts emby server), and I want to configure Live TV on emby to leverage that NextPVR setup...I go to emby Live TV>Setup>TV Source>NextPVR, what is the next step? Should I select "Detect My Devices", or should I provide a url in the "URL:" field, or both? If the answer is to supply a url, then what url is emby looking for in that field? Is it the M3U url supplied by the IPTV provider? If so, won't that simply download ALL of the channels including those from Afghanistan, Zimbabwe, Mars, etc, etc... that I have no interest in? I am assuming there is some way to only import those channels that I want and have already identified on the NextPVR platform.
5. emveepee - I remain confused about the whole EPG arena. In my simple mind, when an IPTV provider gives me an M3U url and a corresponding XMLTV url, then those 2 things should be perfectly matched so that when I load the channels, ALL of the correct EPG data is loaded with those channels. Said another way - there is one EPG for that one M3U channel listing. Why then is there an emby Guide Data setting under "Guide Source". Does emby maintain some superset of guide data and channel logos for IPTV channels from all or many of the IPTV providers in the world??? It's just confusing to a semi-novice like me. It raises more questions:
   1. Will the emby Guide Data setting overwrite the guide data that was downloaded in NextPVR or does it supplement it (2 EPG sources for my channel list)?
   2. Assuming you're gonna tell me that it is at least a pretty good idea to try the emby guide data, then after I choose Live TV>Setup>Guide Data Sources>United States>Guide Source:Emby Guide Data>Zip Code 85206 I get a "Lineup" drop down asking me to select from a list of cable providers, Satellite companies, OTA, etc... How would ANYONE know what to select in this drop down? Is it not asking me to identify the source of the tv streams that my IPTV provider has packaged and supplied to me via an M3U url or XC login? If so, how could I possibly know what their source(s) are? If I asked them to tell me what their sources are for their channels, I would assume they would not tell me for reasons of security or propriety. My guessing or randomly picking one of the options from this "Lineup" drop down seems like a terrible idea and one that puts everything else that I had done up to that point in jeopardy. Please help me to understand this better.
6. Anyone - what is "DVB/ATSC" EPG and is there an alternative to it? How would an average person know what kind of EPG they need? If I selected the wrong type, does everything stop working? These questions are really kinda rhetorical, because they highlight the knowledge and communications gap between techies and the much much broader community of standard users. For emby, NextPVR or any other platform to win over the general population, random technical questions, pop-up or drop down choices, or configuration settings should never assume the users are developers or power users. 99% of us are neither.

Thank you both or anyone else that contributes to these topics. I suspect there is a huge group of users out there that have similar confusion, but aren't willing to ask "stupid" questions like I do.

1. I'd just stick with an M3U/XMLTV. There is no benefit to XC.

2. I'm the author of NextPVR, and really know very little about Emby. If you've configured Emby to get it's channels from NextPVR, you'll get whatever channels you've saved in NextPVR. (you wont get the channels you didn't import). I'm not entirely sure why you're using NextPVR->Emby for IPTV - I think Emby natively supports IPTV, so would have thought you'd just use that?

3. It's very common for these IPTV services to have pretty patchy TV listings. They provide a listing for a small subset of their complete channel. What you'll be seeing in NextPVR will be what your IPTV service is providing.

It's also pretty common for these services to have some channels which are just downright unreliable. Some IPTV services are a bit better than others. Some are oversubscribed and none of the channels work well for anyone, with no one able to stream smoothly.

These are problems with your IPTV service and not NextPVR.  Ultimately NextPVR can't work miracles...you feed it shit, and the best you can expect to get is shit. 

6. The 'DVB/ATSC EPG' is the broadcast EPG (TV Listings), which is sent with digital broadcasts. This is the default EPG source when you use a digital tuner. This wont help you with IPTV. 

Edited April 9, 2022 by sub3

[MarcusJ 18]

On 4/8/2022 at 5:13 PM, sub3 said:

1. I'd just stick with an M3U/XMLTV. There is no benefit to XC.

2. I'm the author of NextPVR, and really know very little about Emby. If you've configured Emby to get it's channels from NextPVR, you'll get whatever channels you've saved in NextPVR. (you wont get the channels you didn't import). I'm not entirely sure why you're using NextPVR->Emby for IPTV - I think Emby natively supports IPTV, so would have thought you'd just use that?

3. It's very common for these IPTV services to have pretty patchy TV listings. They provide a listing for a small subset of their complete channel. What you'll be seeing in NextPVR will be what your IPTV service is providing.

It's also pretty common for these services to have some channels which are just downright unreliable. Some IPTV services are a bit better than others. Some are oversubscribed and none of the channels work well for anyone, with no one able to stream smoothly.

These are problems with your IPTV service and not NextPVR.  Ultimately NextPVR can't work miracles...you feed it shit, and the best you can expect to get is shit. 

6. The 'DVB/ATSC EPG' is the broadcast EPG (TV Listings), which is sent with digital broadcasts. This is the default EPG source when you use a digital tuner. This wont help you with IPTV. 

sub3, I just realized that I didn't thank you for taking the time to respond in such clear detail...so THANK YOU!

Also, you should be quite proud of NextPVR. When I used it, I found it to be pretty simple and yet quite powerful. Well done!

[sub3 64]

Cheers.