What NAS if wanting to transcode?

[famulor 1]

Hi guys and girls! 

 

Earlier this year i was searching for some sort of cloud solution for my 1.5TB content collection but found out it was going to be quite expensive.

 

So now im searching for what NAS i should buy in order to have emby(mediabrowser?) media server installed (and let the NAS do the transcoding) so im able to watch my movies and such when im not home. 

 

I already have a Synology DS212+ but im pretty sure it dosent have the power needed in order to transcode? atleast it dosent with Plex media server according to their site. 

 

 

 

So the basic question is: What NAS is recommended?

 

 

Thanks!

[MSattler 387]

Hi guys and girls! 

 

Earlier this year i was searching for some sort of cloud solution for my 1.5TB content collection but found out it was going to be quite expensive.

 

So now im searching for what NAS i should buy in order to have emby(mediabrowser?) media server installed (and let the NAS do the transcoding) so im able to watch my movies and such when im not home. 

 

I already have a Synology DS212+ but im pretty sure it dosent have the power needed in order to transcode? atleast it dosent with Plex media server according to their site. 

 

 

 

So the basic question is: What NAS is recommended?

 

 

Thanks!

 

I would say anything with an i3 or faster processor, and 4GB of memory.  I think folks have been saying 2GB of memory per transcoded stream you want to allow.

 

Realistically you are better off running an unRaid host with Mediabrowser, or having a seperate Mediabrowser host.

[Snapper 20]

So the basic question is: What NAS is recommended?

 

 

Thanks!

 

Will it be just the one stream you are wanting to transcode or will it be multiple simultaneous streams?

 

If you like the Synology software, but would rather DIY, you can check out the XPEnology project.  It's a way to install the Synology DSM software on your own hardware.  Otherwise you could also check out freenas in addition to what the post above suggested.

 

To my knowledge, none of the pre-configured solutions that offer transcoding optimization will utilize that optimization with Emby.  As an example, I installed Emby on a DS415play, and it stuttered playing a DVD to a browser.  Yet, using Synology's Video Station, I could play a blu ray file to the same browser at 1080p.  If 1080p is your goal, you will have a very hard time finding a Synology, QNAP, etc that will have a fast enough processor to transcode higher bit-rate 1080p files.  I have the DS415+, and the best I can do with a blu ray file is to transcode to 720p 4mbps.  If that's not good enough, then I would look at the DIY solutions or plan on not running Emby on your NAS.

[famulor 1]

Well its very  few 1080p movies i got to be honest. most of them have at max 720p.

 

 

In a perfect world 5-6 (max 7) simultraneous streams where 6 of them needs the transcoding (but as far as i know transcoding is either off/on so i guess its 7 transcoding?) and thats during "worst case scenario" and will properly not happen too often. 

 

 

Is plex media server (as much as i think its really hard to setup) "better" at transcoding thus needing less power or is it in the same ballpark?

 

 

 

 

Edit: How "weak" a box/internet connection can i get away with if i just put a box in the 7 different places i need to be able to show my content? Im guessing the boxes/internet connection is able to do the transcoding on the fly or will it require alot of buffering when its over the internet?

Edited April 10, 2015 by famulor

[thefirstofthe300 291]

If you are going to be transcoding six or seven streams simultaneously, I would go whole hog and buy a good i7 processor and a fairly good amount of ram (probably close to 16 GB). I would not want to come up short.

 

You can get away with a weaker maching if you use both cloud sync and folder sync. Folder sync is good for "pretranscoding" as clients that can play the folder synced content's transcoding profile will use it instead of firing off a new transcoding process.

 

Cloud sync will do the same as folder sync but will offload the bandwidth to your cloud sync provider.

 

Emby is going to have a number of options for transcoding that you will allow you to configure the server to your needs.

[famulor 1]

If you are going to be transcoding six or seven streams simultaneously, I would go whole hog and buy a good i7 processor and a fairly good amount of ram (probably close to 16 GB). I would not want to come up short.

 

You can get away with a weaker maching if you use both cloud sync and folder sync. Folder sync is good for "pretranscoding" as clients that can play the folder synced content's transcoding profile will use it instead of firing off a new transcoding process.

 

Cloud sync will do the same as folder sync but will offload the bandwidth to your cloud sync provider.

 

Emby is going to have a number of options for transcoding that you will allow you to configure the server to your needs.

That sounds quite expensive may need to check the prices tho.

 

When i said "boxes" i didnt mean multiple NAS's but multiple streamboxes like ex: boxee box or intel nuc (just examples). The reason i need siv or seven streams simultraneously is because of my parents needs to see my content and so do the inlaws etc do i still need to do the cloud sync/folder sync as you talk about if the stream boxes transcode by themselves? without a lot of buffering time of course

[thefirstofthe300 291]

What client to pick? That is always the question. Really it depends on what your media library is encoded too. Is everything in an mp4 with x264 video and AAC stereo audio streams? If so, I would imagine you will have very little transcoding and can use just about anything you can think of. If you have any content that is not encoded in the above way, there WILL be transcoding on some clients.

 

Assuming the above isn't true and you have something other than mp4s with x264 and AAC stereo, for set-top box clients, I would go either WMC or Kodi (I would lean towards Kodi though since WMC seems to be going out the door). Both of the above clients will be able to handle just about any video you throw at it without requiring a server transcode when you have the right codecs installed. You will want to have a machine with SOME power though if you go with the above clients. I don't think a Pi is going to cut it in terms of playback of high bitrate content.

 

Still assuming the first paragraph isn't true, mobile clients WILL require transcoding. No two ways about it.

 

The buffering is going to depend on just how good your internet connection is...if your upload isn't amazing (talking over 100 Mbps if you want 6 1080p streams going out), you are GOING to have buffering issues if you don't utilize cloud sync. In this case, cloud sync is your friend so use it. Currently we support Google Drive and I have had very little issue getting content into the cloud, which is very refreshing having come from the other media server. Once you get the content into the cloud, client will choose the synced version over streaming a transcode without any required user interaction so bandwidth on your home connection will go down Quite a bit.

 

If you have an AMAZING internet connection, you can get away with a fairly low powered box but you will HAVE to folder sync. Folder syncing is like cloud syncing without the cloud. Clients playback the folder synced version without any required user interaction. You just need to use your own internet connection.

 

Depending on the above factors, you will need to choose what server is best for your needs.

Edited April 11, 2015 by DaBungalow

[Spaceboy 2493]

My experience with a decent nas (a 2413+) is that it just cannot do the job for transcoding. Couldn't even play one 720p stream to a remote roku without choking constantly. I just built a new i7 machine instead

[gsnerf 26]

The main problem on these kind of devices is, that they usually don't have a gpu that can assist with transcoding features. Sometimes they have a hardware decoder/encoder which then again needs to support things like vpx so ffmpeg can use them. The main culprit then is the cpu used in the system. An atom cpu (no mater how good the spec seem) mostly don't cut it. An article in the german version of Linux Magazine made some benchmarks last year which supports this. Performance wise the QNAP systems which use celeron CPUs had the best results for most tests, unfortunately they didn't test transcoding capabilities but "only" simple tests for usual file usage like video playback.

 

I think to get it right one has to build an own "NAS" system with a linux system one is most comfortable with. A newer Core-i processor with integrated graphics would be the best option to have gpu supported video decoding. For best transcoding results a video encoder card might be an option (though I have no recommendations here). The trade-of in a custom build environment of course is, hat it mostly isn't as small or silent like a ready to go NAS device.

[famulor 1]

What client to pick? That is always the question. Really it depends on what your media library is encoded too. Is everything in an mp4 with x264 video and AAC stereo audio streams? If so, I would imagine you will have very little transcoding and can use just about anything you can think of. If you have any content that is not encoded in the above way, there WILL be transcoding on some clients.

 

Assuming the above isn't true and you have something other than mp4s with x264 and AAC stereo, for set-top box clients, I would go either WMC or Kodi (I would lean towards Kodi though since WMC seems to be going out the door). Both of the above clients will be able to handle just about any video you throw at it without requiring a server transcode when you have the right codecs installed. You will want to have a machine with SOME power though if you go with the above clients. I don't think a Pi is going to cut it in terms of playback of high bitrate content.

 

Still assuming the first paragraph isn't true, mobile clients WILL require transcoding. No two ways about it.

 

The buffering is going to depend on just how good your internet connection is...if your upload isn't amazing (talking over 100 Mbps if you want 6 1080p streams going out), you are GOING to have buffering issues if you don't utilize cloud sync. In this case, cloud sync is your friend so use it. Currently we support Google Drive and I have had very little issue getting content into the cloud, which is very refreshing having come from the other media server. Once you get the content into the cloud, client will choose the synced version over streaming a transcode without any required user interaction so bandwidth on your home connection will go down Quite a bit.

 

If you have an AMAZING internet connection, you can get away with a fairly low powered box but you will HAVE to folder sync. Folder syncing is like cloud syncing without the cloud. Clients playback the folder synced version without any required user interaction. You just need to use your own internet connection.

 

Depending on the above factors, you will need to choose what server is best for your needs.

 

I have about 26 Mbps in upload so i guess using my own connection is out of the question. What exactly is cloud syncing and what does it involve? 

 

Sorry for all these questions guys. really just trying to find the best solution for my case

[thefirstofthe300 291]

The wiki does a pretty good job of explaining sync.

 

https://github.com/MediaBrowser/Wiki/wiki/Sync

 

If you have any more questions after reading the above, feel free to ask.

[Snapper 20]

I just wanted to add some additional info for those considering their options.  It appears that the DS415+ can run two simultaneous 1080p transcodes with a memory upgrade.  Unfortunately the memory upgrade may void the warranty.  The other issue is with VC-1 videos which ffmpeg processes with a single thread.  I am not sure why that is, but I am not the only one to experience this behavior.  These low power atom processors don't have enough single thread processing power to do VC-1 transcodes.  The alternative would be to use folder sync or cloud sync to prevent transcoding with your VC-1 videos.  For someone wanting a low power CPU that can transcode more than 2 streams, the C2750 processor which is 8 cores, can do 4 simultaneous streams as long as the source isn't VC-1.  Not bad for a 20w TDP processor.

[famulor 1]

The wiki does a pretty good job of explaining sync.

 

https://github.com/MediaBrowser/Wiki/wiki/Sync

 

If you have any more questions after reading the above, feel free to ask.

 

If i understand this correctly cloud sync is having (or just copying) your content to the cloud and let the set top boxes stream from there? If so that would be the perfect solution but i still havent found a place where i can have +2TB worth of content without being insanely expensiv. 

[thefirstofthe300 291]

If i understand this correctly cloud sync is having (or just copying) your content to the cloud and let the set top boxes stream from there? If so that would be the perfect solution but i still havent found a place where i can have +2TB worth of content without being insanely expensiv. 

 

If you set the profile to something like "Baseline - High," the content will not only be able to play on almost every device that Emby supports, the content should also end up being smaller in the cloud. In other words, you might get away with only having 1TB worth of content. At that size, Drive is only $10.

 

The other thing to do is to start uploading stuff you know you will be watching soon to a place like Drive, and keeping stuff that you never watch anymore (TV shows you have finished, movies you have seen, etc.) out of the cloud.

Edited April 19, 2015 by DaBungalow

[famulor 1]

If you set the profile to something like "Baseline - High," the content will not only be able to play on almost every device that Emby supports, the content should also end up being smaller in the cloud. In other words, you might get away with only having 1TB worth of content. At that size, Drive is only $10.

 

The other thing to do is to start uploading stuff you know you will be watching soon to a place like Drive, and keeping stuff that you never watch anymore (TV shows you have finished, movies you have seen, etc.) out of the cloud.

That sounds like a good idea. any advice on what cloud service to check out?

 

Btw i was just reading that dropbox (company edition) offers "unlimited storage". Any experince having your content there and streaming on to emby? or is that a terrible idea?

[thefirstofthe300 291]

Currently, we don't have a Dropbox sync plugin for Dropbox so no one really has any experience with using Dropbox yet. However, Drive has gotten pretty stable so I would imagine that when Dropbox is implemented that it would be just as stable. The only reason I could imagine NOT using Dropbox is if they throttle download speeds.

[famulor 1]

Currently, we don't have a Dropbox sync plugin for Dropbox so no one really has any experience with using Dropbox yet. However, Drive has gotten pretty stable so I would imagine that when Dropbox is implemented that it would be just as stable. The only reason I could imagine NOT using Dropbox is if they throttle download speeds.

Ah makes sense (needed to figure out what Drive was. Realised it was Google Drive )

 

Do you guys support Steamnation? it looks like a decent service they offer. 

 

(i hope its okay i keep asking these dumb questions. Really looking for the best solution for my needs)

[thefirstofthe300 291]

Currently, we don't support StreamNation as do most other projects like us due to the fact that they don't have an open API yet. I would imagine that it would be possible to support them when the API goes live.

 

If you have any C# coding experience, feel free to take a whack at implementing a cloud sync provider plugin. The Drive plugin is open-source and hosted on the organization's GitHub.

[famulor 1]

Currently, we don't support StreamNation as do most other projects like us due to the fact that they don't have an open API yet. I would imagine that it would be possible to support them when the API goes live.

 

If you have any C# coding experience, feel free to take a whack at implementing a cloud sync provider plugin. The Drive plugin is open-source and hosted on the organization's GitHub.

 

I dont have any coding experince what so ever  

 

Alright i thought alot about this (driving me crazy actually.) and came to this "concluded" question: I want to be able to stream from 6 different locations at the same time where the NAS/cloud is doing the transcoding. Whats easiest for me? Build my own NAS/buy one or go with a cloud solution like streamnation.com ? i have very few 1080p movies at the moment (more 720p actually but it would be nice to be "future proof". Dont care about 4K) and very few 3D movies (thinking about deleting them tho and they are not the real 3D on 30-40gigs)

[Snapper 20]

I don't know anything about streamnation.com, but I think building your own is plenty easy.  I did just that, and it took me about an hour to assemble the parts and get XPEnology up and running.  It took me about another 30 minutes to get Emby running on it.  People have put together guides that make this stuff pretty easy to do.  I can transcode two simultaneous 1080p streams at max bit rate with my i3.  I haven't tried it, but it could probably do four 720p streams.  One of the great things about build your own is you can always upgrade the processor to something faster if you need more power, add a new controller, or a case to hold more drives so you get the "future proof" or expand-ability you are looking for.

 

For what it's worth, I started out with a Synology DS415+, and ended up returning it to build my own.  I lost a few minor features that were easily replaced with alternatives, the two year warranty, and commercial support.  I feel all the other benefits outweigh those cons though. 

Edited May 3, 2015 by Snapper

[hifiaudio2 47]

So xpenology software is identical to OEM disk station? I really like my 1812+, but if I could build an identical box with a better proc that would be great.

 

Second question... Did you go with a hot swap case? And what raid controller? Any difficulty with drivers? I am quite interested... Didn't even know it was possible to get the Disk station software on a custom device. How does one apply updates?

Edited May 6, 2015 by hifiaudio2

[Snapper 20]

So xpenology software is identical to OEM disk station? I really like my 1812+, but if I could build an identical box with a better proc that would be great.

 

Second question... Did you go with a hot swap case? And what raid controller? Any difficulty with drivers? I am quite interested... Didn't even know it was possible to get the Disk station software on a custom device. How does one apply updates?

 

XPEnology is a custom boot loader that allows you to load the Synology DSM software directly onto your bare metal hardware or VM, so you are using the same software that Synology uses on their NAS products.  The caveats are that you will not be able to use any of the Synology features that require a genuine serial #, such as Quick Connect, mobile notifications through ds finder, and maybe one or two other things.  They are all pretty minor inconveniences, but you may be able to use the serial # from your 1812+ to gain access to those features.  You can easily change the serial #, and I know people have used old serial #'s before.  I just don't know with what degree of success they had gaining access to things like Quick Connect.

 

I did not use a hot swap case.  I was originally planning on getting the Silverstone DS308B which has 8 hot swap bays, but a lot of people complained about poor airflow over the drives with that case.  All the other hot swap bay cases either didn't have enough hot swap bays or were more expensive than I cared to spend.  I decided to go with the Fractal Design 804 which has eight 3.5" bays and two 2.5" bays which does not have hot swap, but the drives are easily removed.

 

I am using the onboard Intel SATA controller.  I have the Asus H97M-Plus Motherboard which has 6 SATA ports.  I also am using non-ECC memory.  I figured the DS415+ does not have a RAID controller or ECC memory which is what I would have went with otherwise.  I don't really see the point in a RAID controller for home use anyway.  Sure the cycles will be higher on the CPU, and there is slightly greater risk with write cache enabled, but all are generally acceptable in a typical home usage scenario provided you are using a battery backup.  Other people may feel differently, but I came from a similar hardware scenario with Openfiler.

 

I did not have any issues with drivers.  I wrote the xpenoboot image to a small USB drive, plugged it in and booted from USB.  It grabbed a DHCP address, and I was able to load DSM just as you would with any brand new Synology unit.  One other thing.  I was previously using a DS415+.  I removed the drives from the DS415+ and installed them in the new hardware, and it allowed me to perform a disk migration.  I purposely selected hardware that I thought would work without having to install additional drivers.  If you want to run a RAID card, I am pretty sure most of the LSI boards will work.  You may have issues with hardware that is brand new or not mainstream, but driver support in general is pretty good.

[hifiaudio2 47]

Sounds intriguing.  I may have to give this a go.  I would love to be able to take the four WD red 4tb drives I have out and migrate them to the new Xpenology.  How difficult was that when you migrated?

 

And how are drivers installed?  Since I never had to install any on my Synology I dont know how it differs from a Windows driver install. 

[Snapper 20]

It was super easy.  The OS and settings are all installed on the first volume.  Once DSM realizes the OS is installed, it will ask if you want to migrate or start clean.  Once you choose to migrate, it will update all of the apps for the new CPU arch type.  Any manually installed apps will have to be manually uninstalled and reinstalled, but all apps that are available in your list of repositories will be upgraded for you with settings preserved as long as the app is available for the new CPU arch type.  The volume I migrated was Synology Hybrid Raid.  I wouldn't think it would matter, but it may.

 

The drivers are part of the XPEnology boot loader.  You download the boot loader as an IMG file, and then you use a program like Win32DiskImager to write that image file to whatever you want to boot the machine with.  Most just use a USB stick.  Since it is an IMG file, you can edit it with a program like WinImage and copy any drivers you want to the image and resave it.  In fact, if you want to edit the serial # in advance, that is where you would edit it.  There is a boot menu file that has three startup options.  You just edit that file and replace the default serial # with the serial # you plan to use.  You can do it after the fact too either form a console, using SSH, or SCP.

[hifiaudio2 47]

Is the "first volume" you mention the bootliader/USB stick, or the first drive(s) installed? If its the drives, do I need a separate small drive in there for the first volume so the entirety of my 4 drive raid 5 set comes over intact?