chrismallia 12 Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 Hi all. I am currently running a server I build a couple of years ago that is running Ubuntu 18.04 with ZFS, 6 4tB wd RED drives in RaidZ 2. I also am running docker with several apps like emby,reverse proxy and more. This build is aging and I need a new setup and here is where I cant decide , I am in between building a new server with Intel I3 8110,32GB Ram that amounts around $655 or go with a synology ds1019+ around $800 (these are the prices in my country). Cons of ds1019+ much lower specs with 5bay no 10G nic support and 1 of the most thing that bothers me is that I would have to install emby and store its metadata and transcodes on the pool, in my current setup emby is on an SSD and has all metadata and transcodes there.. What would you guys do?? Thanks for all your opinions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mediacowboy 438 Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 I'm all about custom. Gives you more control over what you can do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Droid 643 Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 Price and performance...there's your answer. You already know how to build a server, manage storage and Docker. Going with turnkey is a step backwards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastrmind11 717 Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 Price and performance...there's your answer. You already know how to build a server, manage storage and Docker. Going with turnkey is a step backwards. 100%. These prebuilt NAS boxes are a complete waste of money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHSPVR 119 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 (edited) Hi all. I am currently running a server I build a couple of years ago that is running Ubuntu 18.04 with ZFS, 6 4tB wd RED drives in RaidZ 2. I also am running docker with several apps like emby,reverse proxy and more. This build is aging and I need a new setup and here is where I cant decide , I am in between building a new server with Intel I3 8110,32GB Ram that amounts around $655 or go with a synology ds1019+ around $800 (these are the prices in my country). Cons of ds1019+ much lower specs with 5bay no 10G nic support and 1 of the most thing that bothers me is that I would have to install emby and store its metadata and transcodes on the pool, in my current setup emby is on an SSD and has all metadata and transcodes there.. What would you guys do?? Thanks for all your opinions I would skip the WD Red 2TB thru 6TB those are SMR drives unless it an 8TB or high or it the Pro model Here my build Antec Performance Series P101 Silent Black/0.8 mm SPCC ATX Mid Tower Case with 8 x 3.5" HDD / 2.5" SSD Removable Bays (Why I chose this case it has 8 bay and hot swap bay are to darn expensive and I need to be more desktop style case) Corsair CX Series CX750 (New) CP-9020123-NA 750W ATX12V 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Non-Modular Active PFC Power Supply Intel Core i3-9100 Coffee Lake 4-Core 3.6 GHz(4.2 GHz Turbo) LGA 1151 (300 Series) 65W BX80684I39100 Desktop Processor MSI B360 GAMING PLUS LGA 1151 (300 Series) Intel B360 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 ATX Intel Motherboard G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 2666 (PC4 21300) Desktop Memory Model F4-2666C15D-16GVR Corsair Hydro Series, H60 2018 (CW-9060036-WW), 120mm Radiator, Single 120mm PWM Fan, Liquid CPU Cooler LG Black Blu-ray Burner SATA WH16NS40 Seagate BarraCuda 510 M.2 2280 256GB PCIe G3 x4, NVMe 1.3 3D TLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) ZP256CM30041 (Bootdrive) Used LSI SAS 9211-8i 8-port 6Gb/s Internal IT-MODE and cables (I plan to update and replace drive to 8TB hard drive across the board I have reused what I got for now) 4x Seagate IronWolf ST8000VN004 8TB 7200 RPM 256MB Cache SATA (With plans to add 4 more over of this year) USB 2.0 4 Ports PCI Slot Bracket Re-used Hauppauge WinTV quad-HD Re-used other Hauppauge device Re-used Hauppauge USB HD-PVR 2 and PCIe Colossus 2 Re-used 128GB SSD for Caching Transcoding temporary path I hope to have this up and running next week when drives come it ouch cost fortune but it should last another 10 year LoL Edited May 2, 2020 by SHSPVR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdiesel 1114 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 I would skip the WD Red 1TB thru 6TB those are SMR drives unless it an 8TB or high or it the Pro model I found the 8TB drives to be the sweet spot for TB/$ Isn't the SMR issue a bit overblown for those who aren't continuously writing a lot of data to the drive? I've read for applications like media servers they are just fine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHSPVR 119 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 (edited) I found the 8TB drives to be the sweet spot for TB/$ Isn't the SMR issue a bit overblown for those who aren't continuously writing a lot of data to the drive? I've read for applications like media servers they are just fine. Not from what I read and experience my self with my gaming system and Seagate Barracuda 8TB model ST8000DM004 with a steam game library on it and how they work they fine as read only data that get written once as reg HBA or Archival storage in a non raid setup Edited May 2, 2020 by SHSPVR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mediacowboy 438 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 (edited) I believe smr is good for warm drives. Write once read a lot. I have used Seagate archive and I know those are smr drives. Writing a bunch of data to them took forever but reading multiple streams they didn't have a problem. I should note that I used them in a drive pool configuration versus a raid. Edited May 2, 2020 by mediacowboy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mediacowboy 438 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 (edited) Hi all. I am currently running a server I build a couple of years ago that is running Ubuntu 18.04 with ZFS, 6 4tB wd RED drives in RaidZ 2. I also am running docker with several apps like emby,reverse proxy and more. This build is aging and I need a new setup and here is where I cant decide , I am in between building a new server with Intel I3 8110,32GB Ram that amounts around $655 or go with a synology ds1019+ around $800 (these are the prices in my country). Cons of ds1019+ much lower specs with 5bay no 10G nic support and 1 of the most thing that bothers me is that I would have to install emby and store its metadata and transcodes on the pool, in my current setup emby is on an SSD and has all metadata and transcodes there.. What would you guys do?? Thanks for all your opinions After thinking on this more I would do 16GB of ram and spend a little more on an i5 processor. You didn't say what format your media is in so I assume it will direct play internal but if you want to stream externally you want a little more processor for conversion. My build currently: Node 804 ASRock H170M-ITX/DL LGA 1151 Intel Core i5-6500 G.SKILL Aegis 16GB (2 x 8GB) LSI-9211 (IT Mode) WD Blue 250 GB WD Blue 2 TB 7 Seagate Ironwolf 8TB Nortek HUSBAB-1 OS: Ubuntu 18.07 LTS MergerFS for drivepooling the IronWolfs OS is on the 250 GB 2TB is Misc I am running the following docker containers on this with no problem: Admin Software: Portainer Watchtower Heimdall LetsEncrypt - SSL/Reverse Proxy Unifi Controller Media Software: Emby LazyLibrarian Jackett Lidarr Radarr Sonarr SabNZBd Ombi Deluge Home Automation: Home Assistant influxdb-grafana - Not currenlty doing anything as I am rebuilding my Home Assistant setup mqtt Heimdall Oh and a SilcionDust HDHomeRun Prime for live TV. That my wife says we have to have. Edited May 2, 2020 by mediacowboy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHSPVR 119 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 After thinking on this more I would do 16GB of ram and spend a little more on an i5 processor. You didn't say what format your media is in so I assume it will direct play internal but if you want to stream externally you want a little more processor for conversion. But the cheapest one have no GPU and didn't factor that in to over cost unless he or she one and wouldn't QuickSync be better over all option for mobile device for transcoding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mediacowboy 438 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 But the cheapest one have no GPU and didn't factor that in to over cost unless he or she one and wouldn't QuickSync be better over all option for mobile device for transcoding That is why I said save the money on the ram and look at a i5 processor. They have GPU for quicksync. What they posted. Couldn't find the 8110. What I had in mind. same gpu but a little more processor for the other apps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Droid 643 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 The OP didn't share the specs for their current server or if they wanted to keep the existing box for something else. If not then all that's needed is a motherboard swap + CPU and RAM. Keep the current drives as they are and boot the new hardware with the existing OS and software. Then there's not need to reinstall, reconfigure or move data. The i3 is good and sure an i5 is better but for the best media support it should be 8th or 9th gen, nothing older than that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHSPVR 119 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 That is why I said save the money on the ram and look at a i5 processor. They have GPU for quicksync. What they posted. Couldn't find the 8110. What I had in mind. same gpu but a little more processor for the other apps. Most like he or she could be ref to 8100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mediacowboy 438 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 The OP didn't share the specs for their current server or if they wanted to keep the existing box for something else. If not then all that's needed is a motherboard swap + CPU and RAM. Keep the current drives as they are and boot the new hardware with the existing OS and software. Then there's not need to reinstall, reconfigure or move data. The i3 is good and sure an i5 is better but for the best media support it should be 8th or 9th gen, nothing older than that. This is very true and would save a lot of money. Rough guess looking at what maybe $400. $100 - RAM $200 - CPU $100 - Mother Board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismallia 12 Posted May 2, 2020 Author Share Posted May 2, 2020 Hi guys, Sorry for the very late reply, I posted this and went to bed lol. The CPU is I3 8100, sorry my mistake in the first post it has Intel Quick sync but will also look at the I5, went for 32GB Ram because I use ZFS that is great but has its con that you cant expend unless you replace all the drives, my current system is very low end, CPU dual core g2030 8Gb Ram HP PCIE 3.0 raid controller that I flashed to IT Mode Tower case. I have rack mounted all my Network stuff so I am changing the case for a 4u Rackmount, so do not have any plans for the old box. Drives I bought over a year ago, so I do not know if they are SMR but when upgrading I would go with the seagate. SMR is bad when rebuilding a raid as it creates pausing problems. Intel i3-8100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismallia 12 Posted May 2, 2020 Author Share Posted May 2, 2020 (edited) I would skip the WD Red 1TB thru 6TB those are SMR drives unless it an 8TB or high or it the Pro model Here my build Antec Performance Series P101 Silent Black/0.8 mm SPCC ATX Mid Tower Case with 8 x 3.5" HDD / 2.5" SSD Removable Bays (Why I chose this case it has 8 bay and hot swap bay are to darn expensive and I need to be more desktop style case) Corsair CX Series CX750 (New) CP-9020123-NA 750W ATX12V 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Non-Modular Active PFC Power Supply Intel Core i3-9100 Coffee Lake 4-Core 3.6 GHz(4.2 GHz Turbo) LGA 1151 (300 Series) 65W BX80684I39100 Desktop Processor MSI B360 GAMING PLUS LGA 1151 (300 Series) Intel B360 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 ATX Intel Motherboard G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 2666 (PC4 21300) Desktop Memory Model F4-2666C15D-16GVR Corsair Hydro Series, H60 2018 (CW-9060036-WW), 120mm Radiator, Single 120mm PWM Fan, Liquid CPU Cooler LG Black Blu-ray Burner SATA WH16NS40 Seagate BarraCuda 510 M.2 2280 256GB PCIe G3 x4, NVMe 1.3 3D TLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) ZP256CM30041 (Bootdrive) Used LSI SAS 9211-8i 8-port 6Gb/s Internal IT-MODE and cables (I plan to update and replace drive to 8TB hard drive across the board I have reused what I got for now) 4x Seagate IronWolf ST8000VN004 8TB 7200 RPM 256MB Cache SATA (With plans to add 4 more over of this year) USB 2.0 4 Ports PCI Slot Bracket Re-used Hauppauge WinTV quad-HD Re-used other Hauppauge device Re-used Hauppauge USB HD-PVR 2 and PCIe Colossus 2 Re-used 128GB SSD for Caching Transcoding temporary path I hope to have this up and running next week when drives come it ouch cost fortune but it should last another 10 year LoL Thanks for sharing. What are you using as OS and storage solution? Also anyone using dual parity (raid6 raidz 2) for there media? I sometimes wonder if losing 2 drives to parity is worth it. Edited May 2, 2020 by chrismallia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismallia 12 Posted May 2, 2020 Author Share Posted May 2, 2020 The OP didn't share the specs for their current server or if they wanted to keep the existing box for something else. If not then all that's needed is a motherboard swap + CPU and RAM. Keep the current drives as they are and boot the new hardware with the existing OS and software. Then there's not need to reinstall, reconfigure or move data. The i3 is good and sure an i5 is better but for the best media support it should be 8th or 9th gen, nothing older than that. Your correct. All I need is the CPU Board and Ram, will also be changing case as its a tower that has no sides lol and is a little damaged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismallia 12 Posted May 2, 2020 Author Share Posted May 2, 2020 After thinking on this more I would do 16GB of ram and spend a little more on an i5 processor. You didn't say what format your media is in so I assume it will direct play internal but if you want to stream externally you want a little more processor for conversion. My build currently: Node 804 ASRock H170M-ITX/DL LGA 1151 Intel Core i5-6500 G.SKILL Aegis 16GB (2 x 8GB) LSI-9211 (IT Mode) WD Blue 250 GB WD Blue 2 TB 7 Seagate Ironwolf 8TB Nortek HUSBAB-1 OS: Ubuntu 18.07 LTS MergerFS for drivepooling the IronWolfs OS is on the 250 GB 2TB is Misc I am running the following docker containers on this with no problem: Admin Software: Portainer Watchtower Heimdall LetsEncrypt - SSL/Reverse Proxy Unifi Controller Media Software: Emby LazyLibrarian Jackett Lidarr Radarr Sonarr SabNZBd Ombi Deluge Home Automation: Home Assistant influxdb-grafana - Not currenlty doing anything as I am rebuilding my Home Assistant setup mqtt Heimdall Oh and a SilcionDust HDHomeRun Prime for live TV. That my wife says we have to have. Thanks for sharing, ever tried out ZFS on ubuntu? what made you go with MergerFS ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastrmind11 717 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 Thanks for sharing, ever tried out ZFS on ubuntu? what made you go with MergerFS ? I am currently running ZFS on my ubuntu NAS. Its a fantastic filesystem. You would choose mergerFS so that you can pool your drives easily and not have to worry about differing disk sizes. With ZFS you need to match (or exceed) disk size in any vdev. But for fult tolerance ZFS is the way to go. I run 10x2 drive mirrors, which means I can lose 1 drive in each vdev before I lose my data. Regarding WD Reds, I've been running 2TB - 8TB drives for many years without issue. Seagate on the other hand.... I lost 3 drives in 2 years and they were from different lots, which is pretty unacceptable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHSPVR 119 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 Thanks for sharing. What are you using as OS and storage solution? Also anyone using dual parity (raid6 raidz 2) for there media? I sometimes wonder if losing 2 drives to parity is worth it. Has to be Windows being as there no support with USB/PCI/PCIe OTA Tuner and USB HD-PVR 2 or PCIe Colossus 2 with USB-UIRT IR Blaster under Linux with Emby I could use NextPVR Linux with M3U Tuner for OTA Tuner like I do now but I still have no analogue capture and I mostly likely be adding Drive Bender to mix, why is because of the limitation with Emby DVR recording storage only support one drive when we need multiple recording drive support and better intelligent recording. Sorry I know nothing about ZFS but what I know about it is just another storage pool software Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHSPVR 119 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 (edited) I am currently running ZFS on my ubuntu NAS. Its a fantastic filesystem. You would choose mergerFS so that you can pool your drives easily and not have to worry about differing disk sizes. With ZFS you need to match (or exceed) disk size in any vdev. But for fult tolerance ZFS is the way to go. I run 10x2 drive mirrors, which means I can lose 1 drive in each vdev before I lose my data. Regarding WD Reds, I've been running 2TB - 8TB drives for many years without issue. Seagate on the other hand.... I lost 3 drives in 2 years and they were from different lots, which is pretty unacceptable. Unless you have NAS Red pacifically the EFAX model 2TB thru 6TB you may never see the problem but should read this and keep in mind even Seagate and Toshiba are using SMR Tech https://blocksandfiles.com/2020/04/14/wd-red-nas-drives-shingled-magnetic-recording/ https://blocksandfiles.com/2020/04/23/western-digital-blog-wd-red-nas-smr-drives-overuse/ Just wonder what Seagate Size and Model where they I recommend reviewing this it very used full https://rml527.blogspot.com/ Edited May 2, 2020 by SHSPVR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Droid 643 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 The drive makers are hurting themselves by doing this. Mixing technologies within product lines and not labeling the drives clearly is going to make people avoid the full line or even the brand. They are all being sneaky about this in their race to higher capacity while trying to keep consumers in the dark. They could create a new product line for SMR and guide people to the right usage for workload and application. Or stick to branding SMR for enterprise, cloud and archival use and leave consumer lines alone. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismallia 12 Posted May 2, 2020 Author Share Posted May 2, 2020 Thanks all for your input and advice. emby is great so glad I switched, also you guys make it even better as a community, I never thought I would get all this sincere feedback and help. So thank you all hope to have more discussions with you ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismallia 12 Posted May 2, 2020 Author Share Posted May 2, 2020 Unless you have NAS Red pacifically the EFAX model 2TB thru 6TB you may never see the problem but should read this and keep in mind even Seagate and Toshiba are using SMR Tech https://blocksandfiles.com/2020/04/14/wd-red-nas-drives-shingled-magnetic-recording/ https://blocksandfiles.com/2020/04/23/western-digital-blog-wd-red-nas-smr-drives-overuse/ Just wonder what Seagate Size and Model where they I recommend reviewing this it very used full https://rml527.blogspot.com/ Thanks for that. WD RED have to be PRO and seagate must be ironwolf not to have SMR, THATS WHAT i FOUND OUT IF THE INFO IS CORRECT. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismallia 12 Posted May 2, 2020 Author Share Posted May 2, 2020 The drive makers are hurting themselves by doing this. Mixing technologies within product lines and not labeling the drives clearly is going to make people avoid the full line or even the brand. They are all being sneaky about this in their race to higher capacity while trying to keep consumers in the dark. They could create a new product line for SMR and guide people to the right usage for workload and application. Or stick to branding SMR for enterprise, cloud and archival use and leave consumer lines alone. Agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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