Most reliable TV client?

[clucky 5]

My mission is to find a replacement for the TV. My mobile apps work amazing, but I find quirks with Emby (specifically live TV) on Android TV and Apple TV.

I've been testing Android TV (Sony Bravia built-in) and Apple TV and I have issues with both. Android TV can't direct play live TV and seek, Apple TV often crashes after a lot of channel surfing... plus the guide is glitchy. What is the preferred TV client I should be using that is as reliable as my mobile devices?

Not sure if a Shield with the standard Android app is the solution here, or getting a Windows mini PC and running Theater on it.

[pwhodges 1539]

The aim is to have all clients be reliable!  It would be helpful if you reported specific issues in separate threads, with the appropriate logs, to aid the developers in getting closer to this ideal.

Paul

[Gilgamesh_48 948]

Well I own and use two Rokus, a Fire TV, a Shield TV and a HTPC. The HTPC almost never gets used anymore and my Rokus are used more than the other two combined.

1st I would strongly recommend against a "Smart" TV. Having engines like Fire TV or Roku built in is not, in my opinion, a good idea but "smart" TVs are often cheaper that the not so smart alternatives so it is sometimes a better idea to buy a smart TV than a dumb one but do not let which "smart" engine is built in have much impact on selection as other "boxes" can be easily connected to most TVs and thereby avoid the built in features if needed.

As far as which device is "best" goes: That is a very personal selection. I prefer my Rokus quite a bit but the real differences are now quite small. I first used a set top box way back before the Roku N1000 was introduced in 2008 but the boxes i used before my Rokus have all become non-supported and, mostly, totally unused. I also bought, and keep up to date, a Fire TV stick and it is the second most used device i own.
My Shield TV box is rarely used even though it cost the most. I do not really like the Shield's interface but I will say that to my old eyes the Shield's picture is a little bit "better" but not even close to being enough "better" to get me to use it.
I think it has been over a year since i used my HTPC to watch anything. It is just too clumsy to use for me to even want to use and everything I watch works on at least two of my other devices.

I actually have only one person I know well that uses anything other than a Roku and that is a Fire Stick as she hates wires so the stick will plug directly into her TV. (There are also Roku sticks but the wireless connection on the Roku sticks seems to be less reliable)

My bottom line recommendation is to run a Roku ultra with whatever TV you like. But, if the Roku's picture is not good enough then get a Shield TV for the picture quality. The Fire TV is actually between the other two.

One more thing there are a few apps that are not available in the Roku universe, like CH-DVR, and, if you really need any of those apps, you either need a second device or you need to get something like a Fire TV exclusively and use it for everything.

Currently Rokus and Fire TVs are fairly cheap and having both is not much of a problem for most people.

The selection of a TV and set top box is a very personal thing and you cannot be sure until you actually use one in your home. Be sure that wherever you buy from allows pretty easy returns. just in case.

[jkramer 10]

2 hours ago, clucky said:

What is the preferred TV client I should be using that is as reliable as my mobile devices?

I gave up 2 to 3 years ago for OTA TV and timeshifting on Emby. After a year of testing that and Plex and a few others I found Channels DVR was the only software that could hold its own with my sports habit (tons of pauses, rewinds, fast forwards). Plex wouldn't even do basic tuning or recording back then.

Channels DVR does suck for other video stuff like movies etc, and their unchangeable purple theme is annoying as hell, but you can't beat it for TV. Channels DVR's target hardware is really Apple TV, runs great on my Shield Pro (Android TV), and Windows desktop basically doesn't exist beyond a rudimentary channel grid that will play video from the settings console.

If you're using OTA, this may all backfire if the media giants get their way with DRM on ATSC 3.0.

 

[Gilgamesh_48 948]

2 hours ago, jkramer said:

I gave up 2 to 3 years ago for OTA TV and timeshifting on Emby. After a year of testing that and Plex and a few others I found Channels DVR was the only software that could hold its own with my sports habit (tons of pauses, rewinds, fast forwards). Plex wouldn't even do basic tuning or recording back then.

Channels DVR does suck for other video stuff like movies etc, and their unchangeable purple theme is annoying as hell, but you can't beat it for TV. Channels DVR's target hardware is really Apple TV, runs great on my Shield Pro (Android TV), and Windows desktop basically doesn't exist beyond a rudimentary channel grid that will play video from the settings console.

If you're using OTA, this may all backfire if the media giants get their way with DRM on ATSC 3.0.

 

Except people need to be aware that, if you get "regular" TV from sources like Spectrum there may be some channels the CH-DVR cannot get. That is they get blocked from being able to be accessed by programs like CH-DVR.

However I can easily record from the Spectrum app on my Roku or Fire TV or Shield TV and, except for the fact that those recordings are not exportable using the Spectrum app for FOX and CBS and a few other channels I find that CH-DVR works well.

As an example I am watching the Women's World Cup right now and I can use CH-DVR to record all matches on FS1 or get replays off of FS2 and FOX soccer plus and even the matches, like all USA matches so far, that are Exclusive on FOX can be recorded delayed on one of those. But the Spectrum app is plenty good enough.
The WWC is being played in Australia and new Zealand so the match times mostly are at times when I should be sleeping so they get recorded for a later watching.
Using Ch-DVR I get most of them recorded but I, so far, have had to use the Spectrum app for several matches and that percentage will increase as the group stages end soon and we go into the knockout round where more and more of the matches will first broadcast on FOX before being rebroadcast on FSI or FS2 or FOX Soccer Plus.

I have discovered that the is no perfect app. That is:
There is no:
"One App to rule them all,
"One App to find them,
"One App to bring them all,
"and in the darkness bind them

But, even if there were such an app, we would not have to cast it into the fires of doom to save the world. Or at least I do not think that would be needed, but some apps are so nefarious that they might need a trip in Golem's Mouth into the fire to make the world a decent place.

[jkramer 10]

I re-test the Emby TV functionality yearly to check its progress (OTA only here). I can't even get past the "taking ages to tune stations" deal it still has.

I haven't had cable TV since 2010.

As I mentioned, my only real use for OTA is sports, mainly football, and Emby just isn't capable of the fast-paced timeshifting I do in real time looking at replays etc. It makes a damn nice interface for my movie collection, however. (Lifetime sub)

[arrbee99 1562]

Its truly ridiculous all / most of the TV problems could have been sorted years ago, but they just won't.

[jkramer 10]

Win7 Media Center and Channels DVR are the only 2 I've found that work well enough for my niche needs. I recall another that required lots of setup that I just don't feel like dealing with until it's completely necessary.

[Gilgamesh_48 948]

3 minutes ago, arrbee99 said:

Its truly ridiculous all / most of the TV problems could have been sorted years ago, but they just won't.

Actually, since there are so many ways to get OTA broadcasts and record them I find it unimportant that Emby's handling of live TV is less than ideal. However if you are using something like an HD-Homerun and it works outside Emby then it should work with Emby just as well.

I cannot directly help with that as where I live has near zero OTA TV signal. But there are a huge number of people using Emby and recording OTA signals and it seems to work quite well. If you continue to have problems I suggest you ask for help and provide details of your set up and exactly what you have done and what you wish to do.
Then follow instruction to get things working. If you do that and something is still not working then ask again with details and logs and any messages you see.

The people here are very good at long range troubleshooting but they do need all the info they can get and assistance from the user.

I have managed to test OTA with my setup and I can comfortably say it works but, as I implied earlier, I actually only can receive one channel so I use Spectrum's service with CH-DVR to get the functionality I need. However, if I lived about 10-15 miles further south or north or east my reception would be fine and i might drop Spectrum. BTW: To my west it would take over 20 miles to get good reception. What can I say I seem to live in a hole in the world electromagnetically speaking.

I do not believe in using only one device/method to accomplish what I wish to do. For recording I can use Emby, CH-DVR or Spectrum. But I do remain limited to one device/service (Spectrum) for a few channels like FOX.

[arrbee99 1562]

I don't have any particular problems with Emby and OTA channels. Nothing show stopping for my limited use anyway.

But, I quite often get video / audio out of sync, failure to tune, slow tuning, the inability to up / down arrow to change channels. I've also seen the improvements in nextgenTV that were available 3 (yes 3) years ago, and still we wait, and wait, and wait...

I also tried Kodi with the NextPVR plugin for Kodi and tuning was literally 10 times quicker.

So...so much could be better, but isn't...

[TMCsw 123]

5 hours ago, jkramer said:

I gave up 2 to 3 years ago for OTA TV and timeshifting on Emby. After a year of testing that and Plex and a few others I found Channels DVR was the only software that could hold its own with my sports habit (tons of pauses, rewinds, fast forwards). Plex wouldn't even do basic tuning or recording back then.

Channels DVR does suck for other video stuff like movies etc, and their unchangeable purple theme is annoying as hell, but you can't beat it for TV. Channels DVR's target hardware is really Apple TV, runs great on my Shield Pro (Android TV), and Windows desktop basically doesn't exist beyond a rudimentary channel grid that will play video from the settings console.

If you're using OTA, this may all backfire if the media giants get their way with DRM on ATSC 3.0.

 

What does any of this have to do with the Original Post (OP)?

[jkramer 10]

9 hours ago, clucky said:

 I find quirks with Emby (specifically live TV) on Android TV and Apple TV.

 

50 minutes ago, TMCsw said:

What does any of this have to do with the Original Post (OP)?

See quote above yours.

[TMCsw 123]

13 minutes ago, jkramer said:

See quote above yours.

Wrong, see your first post to this thread.

Please take your beef to another more appropriate thread or start your own...

...let this one be about the OP.

[clucky 5]

Very quick replies, I do appreciate it. To the first commenter, what's been discussed here are documented issues and devs say they are "working on it". Some of the quirks are 3 years ongoing, so the community seems to have done enough to at least report the issues discussed here.

I'm going to pickup a shield pro soon, and test with the default Android app

My tuning for live TV is pretty quick on my phones, ipad, and mostly on the apple tv. My experience on ios devices has been great. I just have quirks about TV dedicated streamers so far:

• Apple TV will crash sometimes. Guide scrolling is glitchy; sometimes you can't select a show and click record... you have to exit the guide and re-enter. I've tested this on multiple apple tv's, fully updated
• Android TV experience is mostly great, but can't direct play and seek/ pause? It's just odd functionality and transcoding stream takes too long for my liking
• Android standard app has an overly large guide with no compact mode, and no channel surfing??? Might be missing something? Is this the most stable?

Is anyone running Emby Theater (Windows, Linux, Mac) for their actual TV setup? Navigation is a little quirky in TV mode, but things seem to play fast in my experiments.

[jkramer 10]

59 minutes ago, TMCsw said:

Wrong, see your first post to this thread.

Emby sucks for timeshifting for my needs. OP apparently has issues too. You have your opinion, I choose to ignore it.

My experience, my thoughts, you'll have to get over that.

[Spaceboy 2505]

22 hours ago, clucky said:

My mission is to find a replacement for the TV. My mobile apps work amazing, but I find quirks with Emby (specifically live TV) on Android TV and Apple TV.

I've been testing Android TV (Sony Bravia built-in) and Apple TV and I have issues with both. Android TV can't direct play live TV and seek, Apple TV often crashes after a lot of channel surfing... plus the guide is glitchy. What is the preferred TV client I should be using that is as reliable as my mobile devices?

Not sure if a Shield with the standard Android app is the solution here, or getting a Windows mini PC and running Theater on it.

my emby use is probably upwards of 90% of live or recorded tv on a shield tv, now using the standard android app, but previously the android tv app.

there are some shortcomings but nothing so significant that i would consider using a separate app.

i don't have any issues direct playing live tv on the standard android app. the main playback issue is you can't seek in progress tv recordings, which you could on the old android tv app. this has been acknowledged and we hope being worked on. i did have to move off the android tv app because some live tv stuff was broken and the app is pretty much end of life now, so hopefully like me you find the standard android app better.

as has been alluded to, the full WMC equivalent has been coded for emby. but i wouldnt expect to see it in any public builds in the near future

[TMCsw 123]

22 hours ago, jkramer said:

Emby sucks for timeshifting for my needs.

Fair enough, I’m just asking you not to pollute random threads and stick to ones that are about your problem or start a new one if needed…

… back to the original post:

I think that the ‘fire stick 4k max’ is the best comprise? (price/capabilities) (often on sale 40-50% off)

I have a Roku but hate it (currently unplugged)

• # of DNS request/telemitry is ridiculous
• No 30/10 sec FF/REW
• It’s just kluinky (don’t ask for an explanation)

The shield is just too much money for a 4 year old device (supports many codecs but not all (future?)

 

[clucky 5]

13 hours ago, Spaceboy said:

my emby use is probably upwards of 90% of live or recorded tv on a shield tv, now using the standard android app, but previously the android tv app.

there are some shortcomings but nothing so significant that i would consider using a separate app.

i don't have any issues direct playing live tv on the standard android app. the main playback issue is you can't seek in progress tv recordings, which you could on the old android tv app. this has been acknowledged and we hope being worked on. i did have to move off the android tv app because some live tv stuff was broken and the app is pretty much end of life now, so hopefully like me you find the standard android app better.

as has been alluded to, the full WMC equivalent has been coded for emby. but i wouldnt expect to see it in any public builds in the near future

Thanks. I'll get a shield pro soon. How is remote functionality? Guide button, channel +/-, etc.

[Gilgamesh_48 948]

10 hours ago, clucky said:

Thanks. I'll get a shield pro soon. How is remote functionality? Guide button, channel +/-, etc.

I use a Shield and I find the remote that came with it to be nearly dysfunctional for my use. However I also found that an older Fire TV remote pairs with the Shield and works great for the way I use my Shield.

It occurred to me as I was typing this that I do not even know exactly where the original remote is right now. I stored it after I discovered that I could use the Fire TV remote and I have forgotten its location. I did have to find it after I did a factory reset on My Shield. That reset was caused by my foolish attempts to use my Shield as a server. Both the Plex server (That comes sort of pre-installed on the Shield) and the Emby server cause the shield to effectively freeze and require a factory reset to restore proper functionality. I have decided that the Shield wound be OK when used as a server with a small library but my library is quite big and the Shield chokes on it.

I also use a Harmony remote with hub and that is a real pleasure to use with my Shield but, of course, I highly customized the button layout and i use the Harmony Android app most of the time again for the highly customizable layout that Harmony offers. I understand that Harmony is not making new remotes anymore and I guess, should I ever have to replace my Harmony, I may have to find another solution. That is not a "search" I am looking forward to.

Of all the devices I own the Shield is by far the most versatile but I very much prefer my Fire TV's remote and, for day to day use, my Rokus and their remotes are the easiest and most intuitive to use.My usage order is:
1. Roku
2. Fire TV
3. Shield TV
4. Everything else

The usability of the remotes, even factoring in my Harmony, is exactly the same order as my usage indicates.

Edit: I had not looked recently and it looks like the newer Shield remotes fix a lot of the problems i had with the original one. The new remote for the Shield just might be OK even for my use.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Gilgamesh_48

[Spaceboy 2505]

12 hours ago, clucky said:

Thanks. I'll get a shield pro soon. How is remote functionality? Guide button, channel +/-, etc.

i use a harmony remote - the suplied remote covers basic functionality, unsure on your two specifically named ones though. guide is pretty accessible these days so a dedicated button isnt that important

[clucky 5]

3 hours ago, Spaceboy said:

i use a harmony remote - the suplied remote covers basic functionality, unsure on your two specifically named ones though. guide is pretty accessible these days so a dedicated button isnt that important

It may not be for you, but its a basic feature that is extremely important to many people converting from STB's  There's really no reason not to have it.

Does Android standard not have direct guide remote functionality like Android TV? And following up, are you able to channel surf with channel buttons +/- on the standard android app?

[Spaceboy 2505]

28 minutes ago, clucky said:

It may not be for you, but its a basic feature that is extremely important to many people converting from STB's  There's really no reason not to have it.

Does Android standard not have direct guide remote functionality like Android TV? And following up, are you able to channel surf with channel buttons +/- on the standard android app?

well there is - lack of available buttons on the remote

i honestly don't know though - you're probably better off asking in the specific sub forum

[Gilgamesh_48 948]

1 hour ago, clucky said:

It may not be for you, but its a basic feature that is extremely important to many people converting from STB's  There's really no reason not to have it.

Does Android standard not have direct guide remote functionality like Android TV? And following up, are you able to channel surf with channel buttons +/- on the standard android app?

Since accessing the "guide' is often a very minor function even for people coming from other DVR solutions. I only use my guide in any app in the rare occasions that i watch live TV and that only happens for sports for me and even then i set up recordings for what I want to watch and usually watch the "event" as a recording even if watching "live."

I really see no use for a dedicated "guide" button as I normally would not use it. But I do believe the "function" should be available for those that want it but, as was mentioned earlier, there is a limitation of number of buttons as most modern set-top-box (or TV application) designers try to make their remotes very simple to use.

It has become inexpensive to have a remote with a few programmable buttons and that is where I would say a "guide button" belongs. But the only major company that makes apps/boxes for TV use that have programmable buttons are the Roku line and I think that may only be for TV Power. I also think many Roku TVs do have a dedicated guide button but i cannot say for sure as, given a choice, I NEVER buy smart TVs.

My bottom line suggestion is to get whatever box you feel fills your needs best and, if anything is missing from the remote, get any of the 100s of good programmable remotes and program the buttons to be exactly what you want. ex. On my Harmony remote I find the regular "play" button badly placed and I have no use in any device i own for channel up/down so I programed play to happen when ch up/down is pressed.

[Darius 9]

I am under the same issue here, it seems on pc the best way is still to use kodi for live tv combined with the emby next gen add-on, while emby is up to par for video content, there are quirks as you said:

-for live tv you cant even input a number for the channel,

-channel up/down buttons dont work as expected with remotes (for me at least),

-the guide does not keep track of the channel you are currently watching, sending you in the first position each time you press it

-that 'on now' feature is the default and it seems impossible to make the guide show up by default instead in that view

-changing channels takes forever vs vlc or kodi

-tv works for a while and then stops or has strange bugs

-that being said when it comes to tv sources and guides it is indeed on point and very good if you care about us/canada channels

 

One thing I find strange is that when you use xteve to emulate an hdhomerun and pass your m3u through there everything work fine, then to plug live tv in kodi, you have to manually edit that list and replace all the redirects the add-on creates for your stream with the actual links in your m3u, set it to read-only and then youll get the best of both world emby guide data with kodi snappiness and ease of use for tv.

Admittedly that's a loooot of hoops for something that should be handled 'in-house' , and ideally when watching live tv no 'restreaming' should happen, we should get the 1:1 link from our list wherever we try to access.  If ppl need the opposite as well then maybe make it optional?

I don't know if the behavior I observed in emby itself but in the emby for kodi add-on the links to my m3u get transformed and redirected through the local host address for some reason.

It would be nice too if we could avoid the extra step of running xteve with hdhr emulation too but at least it works like that so I can't complain so far so good. I find this along with music playback the top features that would need a bit of revamping.

 

(I am talking specifically on windows emby theatre or web interface, android and other oses could be another story)

Edited August 4, 2023 by Darius

[clucky 5]

11 hours ago, Darius said:

I am under the same issue here, it seems on pc the best way is still to use kodi for live tv combined with the emby next gen add-on, while emby is up to par for video content, there are quirks as you said:

-for live tv you cant even input a number for the channel,

-channel up/down buttons dont work as expected with remotes (for me at least),

-the guide does not keep track of the channel you are currently watching, sending you in the first position each time you press it

-that 'on now' feature is the default and it seems impossible to make the guide show up by default instead in that view

-changing channels takes forever vs vlc or kodi

-tv works for a while and then stops or has strange bugs

-that being said when it comes to tv sources and guides it is indeed on point and very good if you care about us/canada channels

 

One thing I find strange is that when you use xteve to emulate an hdhomerun and pass your m3u through there everything work fine, then to plug live tv in kodi, you have to manually edit that list and replace all the redirects the add-on creates for your stream with the actual links in your m3u, set it to read-only and then youll get the best of both world emby guide data with kodi snappiness and ease of use for tv.

Admittedly that's a loooot of hoops for something that should be handled 'in-house' , and ideally when watching live tv no 'restreaming' should happen, we should get the 1:1 link from our list wherever we try to access.  If ppl need the opposite as well then maybe make it optional?

I don't know if the behavior I observed in emby itself but in the emby for kodi add-on the links to my m3u get transformed and redirected through the local host address for some reason.

It would be nice too if we could avoid the extra step of running xteve with hdhr emulation too but at least it works like that so I can't complain so far so good. I find this along with music playback the top features that would need a bit of revamping.

 

(I am talking specifically on windows emby theatre or web interface, android and other oses could be another story)

Pretty much sums it up. There is not one polished app for live tv watchers. There was another topic on the forum where someone may have gotten the media center remotes to work with emby theater (channel +/-), but I wasn't able to confirm that.